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SPECULATION Would the galaxy be really that bad if the Empire had won?

Discussion in 'Original Trilogy' started by thx1138, Dec 5, 2014.

  1. thx1138

    thx1138 Clone Commander

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    Make no mistake, the Emperor and Vader were Sith, ruthless, and incredibly power hungry, they wanted nothing more than to rule and (according to Vader) bring order to the galaxy. They had selfish intentions and probably didn't care much for the general populous of most star systems.

    They had (and apparently somewhat still have in ST) outposts in the entire galaxy, with storm troopers presiding over places like the Nazi's did in WW2. Did the Empire have concentration camps, and try to dispose of particular races? Apparently not. More likely that certain planets were targeted and exploited for minerals and trade, forcing some into labor but generally policing places. It seems at least that in places such as Tatooine, people were free to go about their business as long as they weren't associated with the rebellion.

    It's not like the Sith/Empire were going out of their way to kill people, it seemed they just killed anyone who got in their way or didn't bow to their commands - particularly rebels, and stopped at nothing including destroying a planet to crush those guys. Granted it didn't start very well with the elimination of the Jedi. It probably wasn't nice for most - but - you have to wonder. They were very organised, would it be a bit like a Saddam regime where you fear the leader, but at least there's stability? Cuz without it you know there's gonna be chaos..

    I just always wondered what would happen if the Emperor had achieved his ultimate goal of ruling the universe. I'd imagine he'd be bored of leading and perhaps kill off all other Sith in existence, especially Vader, unless the apprentice got to him first. He'd then eventually have to die of old age (because the Sith cannot cheat death), and everyone would be left with a fairly stable empire run by Generals like Tarkin. But then there would always be rebellions somewhere..
     
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  2. Stormagadon

    Stormagadon Cantina Court Jester
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    Very interesting thought!

    I agree they probably didn't set concentration camps just because they didn't like a race, but if you force labor upon a people they are bound to fight back a little, (even if it just yelling from the other side of a fence). But eventually that creates racism, just because of a mutual disliking of each other. I'd say places like Tatooine are pretty worthless in way of raw materiel and such, and there's no point in having a planet full of sand and nomads that's way out in the middle of nowhere to claim as part of your ultimate Empire.

    Yes, they didn't kill people because they 'were bored' but I would assume the Empire set up some crazy rules regarding trades, planetary economics, and regulations for pretty much EVERYTHING. To a point that would make it hard to live as a middle class citizen of a middle class planet.

    I think the Emperor would just get bored and make people suffer because he finds a sick humor in it. Maybe make Vader his personal butler...
     
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  3. Echo-07

    Echo-07 Rebel Official

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    Well, this is an interesting question.

    I will answer it by saying that YES it would have been.

    First, we humans have a basic desire hardwired into our brains = a desire for freedom which we find "inalienable." I happen to agree with this.

    Second, the Empire is a dictatorship. There's no coincidence that George titled Palpatine "Emperor." In history there was a one "Emperor Napoleon." He is famous for, among other things, instituting his "Napoleonic law." Napoleonic law made everything illegal unless specifically made legal as a privilege. This is counter to free law which means everything is legal unless otherwise forbidden. I suspect the Galactic evil Empire acted with a sort of Napoleonic or Palpatinian law in that everything was illegal.

    Third, oppression just plain sucks!
     
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  4. Dynamixx88

    Dynamixx88 Rebel General

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    It is like asking, would be the Nazi Germany really bad if it had won?
    It is the same, GL based the empire on extreme ideology, probably right out the Nazis. The Sith work in the politics the same as the Nazis did,
    they are these crazy guys, who work trough demagogy, practicing occult stuff to ensure reaching their goal.
    It is not in the movies, but at least in EU, there were information on something like concentration camp, commiting experiments on individuals and whole planets, discrimination of non-humanoid (or rather human-like) species and taking people into military service. Yeah, there are academies and people are joininig the Empire forces willingly as well, but not all of them. The Death Star, perfect tool for oppresion troughout the galaxy.
    Not to mention how the Empire was installed at all.

    Yeah, republic is not the ideal political system, but better than totalitarian one.

    This is a no-brainer really :)
     
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  5. ThePurloinedFowl

    ThePurloinedFowl Rebel Commander

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    Sorry, as a Murican I really have a problem with the idea of being ruled by an Imperial police state.
     
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  6. John Crichton

    John Crichton Rebel Official

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    I would say that yes, it would be bad. I see others have put forth very good points, so I'll just add this: The Empire in general had a very pro-human policy. It's the reason you don't see all those aliens in any form of official office or as part of the policing force. Sure, there were exceptions to the rule, but as long as the Empire (as it existed then) was in power, every other species would be subject to the rule of humans in general. Only in those areas under little-to-no control by the Empire did it seem more "equal" (in that everybody's life sucked, even the humans).

    I feel this sort of speech is a slippery slope towards flame wars and the like. We should keep nationalities out of this discussion, instead focusing on particular historical governments like others have with the mentions of the Nazis and the Saddam regime. (from the US here, so don't take it wrongly)
     
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  7. thx1138

    thx1138 Clone Commander

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    Some great responses and thoughts all round. I guess what I meant to also include as a point was that SW has supposedly had various Empires and Republics going back for generations, and not all of them good. Being ruled by the Empire of the OT may not have been as bad as the Separatists (droid army), along with the corrupt trade federation, despite the fact they technically had the same ruler. The Empire has the foundation of the Republic (ran by Jedi), so a lot of leadership could basically still follow the same pattern. The troops may even be told that they are providing security and stability to the Galaxy, and that the Rebels are a threat to peace. From their point of view. The Emperor would want them to think that.

    Regarding the Nazi analogy, I don't doubt that GL used them as inspiration, but in the end I don't think they were portrayed quite as bad as that. If they were I don't think as many fans would consider Stormtroopers that cool. In any case, with episode VII on the horizon we may yet see a darker, more ruthless Empire.. which is why Boyega appears to be "deserting".
     
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  8. Stormagadon

    Stormagadon Cantina Court Jester
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    I think at the beginning it may not seem so bad, but I'm positive the Empire would only get worse and worse in its rule of the galaxy.

    Hm, not so much in my opinion. The Republic changed into an Empire. The Republic was run by many planets and governments working together, with an elected leader.
    It wasn't until some genius Gungan that all power was given to the leader in a bad political move, and because the governments were fine with giving power entirely to one man, that it became an empire. I would argue that the Republic was an Empire during the Clone Wars, and all Palpatine did was openly rename what kind of government they were using.
    Add in the fact the image of the Jedi became corrupted, you have the people wanting to get rid of anything that reminds them of a failed governmental system and an Emperor who wants galaxy wide domination, your new government is going to be worlds apart (no pun intended) from the old, and in this case, an evil one.

    I agree. This is a fantasy world with allusions to real life. For the sake of telling a concise, not overly morbid-and-corrupt story, you don't need to show every evil thing the Empire does. We don't need to see if they really are just like Nazi's, that's up to us to decide how real-life they are.

    I hope I didn't come across as a jerk, I'm really enjoying your thread!
     
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  9. thx1138

    thx1138 Clone Commander

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    Ironically it may have gotten worse now that Palpatine/Vader are dead. Cut the head off the snake, but it's grown 2 new ones? (Let's see in VII)
    Good points, but I still think Palpatine must have had a great false flags campaign to get those troops to sign up, and keep them motivated. Stormtroopers may be doing it for the money but I'm sure there's a moral inclination behind it too. Sure he was openly renaming the government during the Republic days, and he was likely doing a similar thing with the Empire, albeit with a different appearance and character. I can picture propaganda campaigns that make the Rebels look like a violent revolutionists, and "traitors"..
    Not at all! And thanks, it's been interesting hearing other's views.
     
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  10. Stormagadon

    Stormagadon Cantina Court Jester
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    Ah, yes. I've wondered about that. Perhaps we will see the Empire at its worst! Thirty plus years for the milk to sour... That's a rubbish analogy, forget that.

    Thank you. Very true! If Palpatine could control the media, he can cover up genocide to an extant and/or explain it away. (Think about Alderaan.) Also with the media, you can make the idea of joining appealing for various reasons. I'm sure there most of been a moral aspect as well, otherwise Luke wouldn't have considered joining the Academy even though he hates the Empire. (That's always confused me...)
    Yeah, it's safe to assume the Empire would promote stuff saying the Rebellion is morally wrong and they are traitors. We've seen in history what a good sounding speech and good propaganda can do.
    http://www.peoplesniper.com/image/people/1203/-people-pic-1331487778.jpg
    ^Plenty of these could be around!
     
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  11. Rifleman

    Rifleman Rebelscum

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    The book "A New Dawn" actually gives a good insight into what life was like living under the empire, between the two trilogies. While life did not seem to be unbearable under the empire, it was obvious that building the military might of the empire was the most important goal of the emperor, and as a result the population of the government suffered. It has always been obvious that life hold little value in the star wars universe, but under the empire, it apparently holds no value. On a small scale, the empire will simply destroy a space freighter (killing the crew) rather than wait for it to be repaired, as it is quicker to simply send a new freighter. On a larger scale, the empire is not at all opposed to destroying a habitable world (and its population) if it will means more production of a mineral used in turbo laser batteries.

    Under the empire, the population of the galaxy was simply an asset to be used in the pursuit of power for the emperor. The empire did not provide and stability for the populous, as the empire itself was a constant threat to the people. At any moment, the goal of increasing the power of the empire could benefit slightly from their eradication, and the empire would not hesitate for a second to do so. Even a core world like Alderaan was utterly expendable to the empire, and it was destroyed simply to send a political message to the galaxy. Under the empire, nobody was safe, and the constant fear that would go with living in that society would cancel out any benefit that living under the empire would provide.
     
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  12. Darth Lexor Kai

    Darth Lexor Kai General of the Future Folk

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    In one draft of RoTJ Luke takes on Vader’s legacy after Anakin dies, Saying the words "Now I am Vader". If Luke would have switched alliances the Rebels would have been completely destroyed. Luke was a trusted commander of the rebellion with privileged information no doubt about it. The Empire led a communist state, and like @Rifleman said, they were more concerned with constructing an army and creating tools of oppression. After the rebellion would have been crushed the standing army may have been downsized to reflect the new mission of keeping control over the galaxy. This would mean fewer troops but better equipped. Petty crimes might have been solved by police and not a trial, meaning interpretation of the law is at your captor’s discretion. This would save time and resources. a modern example of what this would look like could be seen by North Korea. People would eventually become starved; resources would be redirected to other parts of the galaxy. Propaganda departments would be constantly hammering the citizens, brainwashing them. This would create obedient and loyal people with true fear of acts against the state.
     
  13. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Attuned

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    Well. Even in the OT there were clues to tyranny of the Empire. They ruled by fear. That is the purpose of the Death Star. It seems to me that they used tactics of terror prior to the Death Star but that the single monolithic symbol was just the top. In the visual guide to Star Wars. It gives a break down of Boba Fetts costume, including braided wookie scalps which he earned hunting them for the empire. That's making money scalping sentient beings, that probably crosses some lines. In ESB Lando knew he had no where to go. Vader could say or do any thing he wanted and Lando knew there was no hope of any sort of redress.

    In recent canonical offerings like Star Wars Rebels there has been a genocide on the planet Lessat.
     
  14. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    A galaxy forever held a grip of terror & occupation countless worlds living in fear all sense of hope destroyed all jedi existence would be wiped out.
     
  15. Slymaster

    Slymaster Clone

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    Let's not forget the Jedi Holocaust instigated by Order 66.
    No, the Galaxy would not have been 'better off' or 'not so bad'

    Better to live in the 'free chaos' that would be caused by the rebels then to live in the Empire.
     
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  16. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    Well the better side won in the end that's the way it works.
     
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  17. Slymaster

    Slymaster Clone

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