1. Due to the increased amount of spam bots on the forum, we are strengthening our defenses. You may experience a CAPTCHA challenge from time to time.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Notification emails are working properly again. Please check your email spam folder and if you see any emails from the Cantina there, make sure to mark them as "Not Spam". This will help a lot to whitelist the emails and to stop them going to spam.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. IMPORTANT! To be able to create new threads and rate posts, you need to have at least 30 posts in The Cantina.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Before posting a new thread, check the list with similar threads that will appear when you start typing the thread's title.
    Dismiss Notice

Would the reaction to TFA be the same if George Lucas had directed the movie.

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' started by Josh, Jun 8, 2017.

?

-

  1. more positive

    4 vote(s)
    26.7%
  2. more negative

    7 vote(s)
    46.7%
  3. the same as now

    4 vote(s)
    26.7%
  1. Burter

    Burter Clone Commander

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2017
    Posts:
    116
    Likes Received:
    184
    Trophy Points:
    352
    Credits:
    738
    Ratings:
    +303 / 15 / -10
    Dude if you want to debate with me then fine, do so cause I love to debate but don't start messing things up with dumb comments like ''The sheer irony of this post is ridiculous.'' Can't you say anything smart without trying to insult what others say? Fellow posters debated with me and even if they disagree with what I say I still like their posts cause they are respectful but how can I take you seriously when you start your comment with junk like that? How would you like it if I answered you back that your comment doesn't deserve a proper reply because it's ridiculous?
     
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
  2. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Posts:
    5,793
    Likes Received:
    34,671
    Trophy Points:
    159,917
    Credits:
    25,780
    Ratings:
    +43,325 / 185 / -97
    Pointing out irony is insulting?

    Okay dude. Later.
     
  3. Wayward Jedi

    Wayward Jedi Rebelscum

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2017
    Posts:
    70
    Likes Received:
    197
    Trophy Points:
    1,172
    Credits:
    706
    Ratings:
    +304 / 0 / -1
    I'd argue the same. Instead of being criticized for making an "ANH remake" he would have been criticized for making the same mistakes as the PT with over usage of CGI, etc.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Amanaman

    Amanaman Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2015
    Posts:
    1,337
    Likes Received:
    2,387
    Trophy Points:
    9,917
    Credits:
    5,686
    Ratings:
    +3,760 / 238 / -86
    Come on man let's keep it friendly. Pointing out something ironic is cool but calling anothers post ridiculous is not. This post is interesting, let's keep it this way cause this is the very same way the arguments start.

    Calling others posts nasty names leads to arguments. Arguments lead to quote wars. Quote wars lead to moderators having to intervene. Moderators having to intervene lead to a perfectly good thread being locked.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Josh

    Josh Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2017
    Posts:
    564
    Likes Received:
    2,758
    Trophy Points:
    8,917
    Credits:
    4,881
    Ratings:
    +3,414 / 27 / -12
    ??
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  6. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Posts:
    5,793
    Likes Received:
    34,671
    Trophy Points:
    159,917
    Credits:
    25,780
    Ratings:
    +43,325 / 185 / -97
    I wasn't calling Burter ridiculous. If you can't call an individual post ridiculous that's a bit narrow.

    It was rife with irony and hypocrisy. I made mention of it.
    Had he posted without the irony, the post wouldn't be ridiculous.

    I know everyone here doesn't speak English.
    So for future reference:
    https://english.stackexchange.com/q...nge-amelioration-originated-from-an-antiphras



    Never called him a name either.

    If you try to apply what is said about a post directly to a poster, this whole forum falls apart.
    There's a difference.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jun 9, 2017, Original Post Date: Jun 9, 2017 ---
    I'd mention the irony in your quotes but that may be seen as mean?

    Good eye though
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  7. Burter

    Burter Clone Commander

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2017
    Posts:
    116
    Likes Received:
    184
    Trophy Points:
    352
    Credits:
    738
    Ratings:
    +303 / 15 / -10
    Let me ask you something Royle Rancor and I do this in a friendly manner, do you know me? Are we family or friends outside of the Cantina? What do you know about me that lets you know that my post was was rife with irony and hypocrisy? We only know each other here in the Cantina bro! For my words to be filled with hypocrisy that must mean that you know for a fact that I may say I dislike things about TFA here but out there in real life I love TFA and talk wonders about it. That would make me a hypocrite and if that were the case then the shoe would fit and I would gladly wear it. Now the problem here is that we don't know each other aside from the times we have clashed here in the Cantina so there really is no way for you to know if my words were filled with hypocrisy other than you jumping to that conclusion.

    I don't know you Royal so I can debate with you, I can disagree with you and I can even flat out dislike what you are saying but I can't say your words are filled with hypocrisy cause I don't know you. You love TFA and that's cool and I dig it. You want to debate with me and I like that too but please, don't let the fact that we haven't seen eye to eye on other posts be the first thing that comes to mind when you read one of my posts. I would have gladly given you a like as well and debated with you if not for the little jab you took at me. As Amanaman said, let's keep it friendly and always keep in mind that we are all free to love what we love and hate what we hate but that doesn't mean that our opinion is the one that HAS to be correct and there really are many fans out there that simply disliked TFA.
     
  8. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Posts:
    5,793
    Likes Received:
    34,671
    Trophy Points:
    159,917
    Credits:
    25,780
    Ratings:
    +43,325 / 185 / -97
    Irony and hypocrisy is saying that TPM and ROTJ only "borrow" from ANH but TFA is a remake, "bro"

    That's all it is, "bro"

    You have an issue with any comment in contention with yours is taken personally.

    You did this same thing over Anakin being "Space Jesus"

    A joke in passing with someone else you took personally and said it was offensive.

    Nothing was personal in comment.

    I will post again to get this back on topic, is this more like TPM, ANH or TFA:

    Young highly sensitive to the force Skywalker is found on Tattooine. He is trained by Obi-Wan Kenobi. Meets a princess. Falls for the princess (ewww). Inexplicably is better than most pilots and is able to destroy a giant ship.
     
  9. Burter

    Burter Clone Commander

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2017
    Posts:
    116
    Likes Received:
    184
    Trophy Points:
    352
    Credits:
    738
    Ratings:
    +303 / 15 / -10
    See what I mean dude. You don't have the maturity to deal with somebody that doesn't agree with you. My mind is on the current conversation and you are bringing things from far back and then you blame me for taking things personally. Look at all your ''bro'' comments. Grow up Royle and don't be a troll. I have disagreed and debated with others here on other subjects and once that is over I am mature enough to forget that. If in one post a fellow member says the PT sucks, I disagree with said person and debate but if the next thread is about someone saying that the Bounty Hunters are awesome and that same person that disagreed with me before likes it just as much as I do, I can have a friendly conversation with that person without bringing in any hostility because of what happened before.

    You have to learn to deal with people that have different opinions than you Royle and accept that you can't always have your way in making others accept what you think is right. If I love ROTJ and you think it really sucked, that doesn't mean that from that point on I'm going to label you as my enemy and troll anything you say just because of that one thing we disagreed on before. I have had many friends that we love each other dearly yet we talk about some of the things we like and the things we hate without taking it to a personal level. Heck, I have a friend who's a die hard Star Trek fan to the max and our friendly conversations are about which is better. He defends ST and I defend SW but there are no insults, no personal jabs and no carrying over grudges from our past debates.

    I also have friends who are from different religions and I have some that are atheists. I don't believe in what they do but I respect them Royle and if one of them were to believe in the flying spaghetti monster and said person thought it was offensive if I talk bad about pasta, no matter how absurd I may find that, I still respect that person and do my best to make him/her feel good by not touching the subject.

    I think we can reach that level of understanding but if you can't deal with a person disagreeing with you without losing it then simply give me an ignore and we can avoid all this childish drama and I ask the OP to forgive me for having had to write all this here. I won't drag this on any more.
     
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
  10. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Posts:
    5,793
    Likes Received:
    34,671
    Trophy Points:
    159,917
    Credits:
    25,780
    Ratings:
    +43,325 / 185 / -97

    Lol. Again accusing me of making it personal when you refuse to address the ACTUAL topic of the thread.

    I was debating with you. You just chose to take it personal. You are the one who made it personal.

    You raised these issues not I.

    You want to cry and call me a troll. I stayed on the thread topic until you and others didn't.

    You can't start this line of talk then try and take the high road over it. So again, let's see if you can actually stay on target here.

    Try number three with you:

    I will post again to get this back on topic, is this more like TPM, ANH or TFA:

    Young highly sensitive to the force Skywalker is found on Tattooine. He is trained by Obi-Wan Kenobi. Meets a princess. Falls for the princess (ewww). Inexplicably is better than most pilots and is able to destroy a giant ship.
     
  11. Rogues1138

    Rogues1138 Jedi Sentinel - Army of Light
    1030th Captain ** (Mod)

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2015
    Posts:
    4,262
    Likes Received:
    40,893
    Trophy Points:
    161,967
    Credits:
    23,759
    Ratings:
    +43,587 / 82 / -39
    Great thread btw, it has me thinking of what could have been. I'm one of those guys that love George Lucas, flaws and all, and I like the prequels. My favorite Star Wars film is ANH but I see all the films as one large story.

    The problem with Lucas is similar to the problem with Ridley Scott, Prometheus and the films in the Prequels were not well received, so both film makers tried their best to appease the fans with lackluster results. (Prometheus / Alien Covenant - TPM / ROTS).

    Ridley Scott is 80 years old so I could see Lucas directing a film in the next trilogy and he could have directed TFA, but the problem with Lucas is that he wanted to make films for a new generation of Star Wars fans in terms of TPM and he basically alienated (most) of the fans that grew up with the OT.

    By the time Lucas realized his mistake, he tried to repair it with ROTS. He stated, the fans will like the title of episode 3, ROTS, so Lucas was finally on board, a bit too late but he understood finally. Spielberg constantly mentioned, he was making Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of Crystal Skull, for the fans, but George had a hand in it so we also got lackluster results.

    I think that Lucas should direct a standalone film. He understands what he did wrong with the Prequels, so directing a standalone would suit him fine. Financially it would be tremendously successful but depending on the content, who knows... if it would be critically well received, as well. Disney read his treatment / scripts for TFA and rejected them so who knows?

    I don't think Lucas would make a similar film as TFA because he doesn't like soft re-boots or remakes. He would create a Star Wars film unlike we've seen before, all he needs is a good script. I think it is time for new directors to take a spin on Star Wars. New Star Wars films will be embodied with SW tropes but new directors will bring new content as well. I can't wait for the day when a director brings us something new; for example new ships, new worlds, so much so, that we can't see any SW tropes at all, maybe an Old Republic film?

    I'm not a prequel hater I enjoy all the films and would welcome Lucas to the Sequel Trilogy and beyond.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
  12. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Posts:
    5,793
    Likes Received:
    34,671
    Trophy Points:
    159,917
    Credits:
    25,780
    Ratings:
    +43,325 / 185 / -97
    I think George would be welcomed as part of the story team. But IDK if he's got it in him to direct and all that again.
    I always thought his true skill was in the story and concept area. He's a genius there.
     
    • Wise Wise x 1
  13. Burter

    Burter Clone Commander

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2017
    Posts:
    116
    Likes Received:
    184
    Trophy Points:
    352
    Credits:
    738
    Ratings:
    +303 / 15 / -10
    Ok I'll bite. Yes indeed, that is something similar from ANH and TPM. You give me these few points that are very similar except for the Obi Wan part. Obi Wan wanted nothing to do with the boy and had him shoved upon him by his dying master but that's cool. A few similar points that are ok but now you be the one to answer me and beforehand I hope my fellow member Amanaman doesn't mind that I borrow the following from him. Which movie is this Royle? ANH or TFA?

    1-Important secret info is put inside a droid and bad guys are looking for it.

    2-Hero lives in desert planet without knowing much about parents and without knowing about the great destiny that is soon to come.

    3-Droid with secret info is captured by alien but ends up in the hands of hero.

    4-Bad guys kill innocents while searching for the droid.

    5-Bad guys have super weapon that can destroy planets.

    6-Black helmet bad guy has an important commander that seems to have the same type of rank he has.

    7-Hero meets wise mentor figure who tells hero about the Force.

    8-Black helmet guy was once a good guy and he was very important to wise mentor figure.

    9-Hero goes to alien filled cantina with mentor figure in hopes to find a ship to deliver the droid to good guys that are in war with tyrant army.

    10-Super weapon is activated destroying countless lives.

    11-Mentor figure with heros help tries to sabotage super weapon.

    12-Black helmet guy confronts wise mentor figure after not having seen him in a long time.

    13-Wise mentor figure dies during confrontation with black helmet guy while hero watches and screams.

    14-Super weapon is prepared to wipe out rebelious good guys once and for all.

    15-Good guys make desperate plan to destroy super weapon by using small ships who's wings look like an X.

    16-Bad guys counter with ships that look like an H while the super weapon makes its final countdown to fire on good guys.

    17-Good guys piloting ships with wings that look like an X make a trench run and are fired at by laser emplacements from super weapon.

    18-Good guys destroy super weapon and go home to celebrate.

    I mean, come on man! It's one thing to use similar concepts in a movie but this is flat out ripping the whole thing off! It's basically the very same movie all over again.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
  14. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Posts:
    5,793
    Likes Received:
    34,671
    Trophy Points:
    159,917
    Credits:
    25,780
    Ratings:
    +43,325 / 185 / -97
    Except half of that is superfluous to the actual movie! Do you see where this is going?

    These things could apply to most of the SW films. That's the point I'm making.
    SW in and of itself is wholly unoriginal at times.

    It's a series of repeated tropes to varying levels of success.

    The main plot of TFA = Find Luke Skywalker
    The main plot of ANH = Stop the Death Star

    The main plots are what separate them. One film cannot be given a pass and another not.
     
    • Wise Wise x 1
  15. Amanaman

    Amanaman Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2015
    Posts:
    1,337
    Likes Received:
    2,387
    Trophy Points:
    9,917
    Credits:
    5,686
    Ratings:
    +3,760 / 238 / -86
    But that is exactly the very same movie copied over no matter how we see it. I'm cool with fans digging TFA but it's very obvious that JJ was extremely unoriginal with TFA. What I don't get is why do fans that love TFA find it so insulting to admit this. JJ himself admits these things and he isn't even bothered one bit by them so I really don't know why die hard TFA fans can't accept something that even the movies creator has admitted.

    2017-06-10 01_04_07-Capture.png

    2017-06-10 01_07_32-Capture.png

    2017-06-10 01_08_49-Capture.png

    Why argue something that JJ clearly admits?
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  16. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Posts:
    5,793
    Likes Received:
    34,671
    Trophy Points:
    159,917
    Credits:
    25,780
    Ratings:
    +43,325 / 185 / -97
    @Amanaman I do not find it insulting. And I'm not arguing that it doesn't have similarities.
    I find it funny that it's just "borrowing" for the other films but this one is a rip off.

    The main plot is different. The goal of each film is different. But the tropes are the same. That's all I've really said.

    Star Wars is a constant reuse of tropes and cliches. Has been from day one.
    I don't think it's bad. It works for Star Wars.

    TFA borrows from all of the OT and some from the PT.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Wise Wise x 1
  17. Rogues1138

    Rogues1138 Jedi Sentinel - Army of Light
    1030th Captain ** (Mod)

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2015
    Posts:
    4,262
    Likes Received:
    40,893
    Trophy Points:
    161,967
    Credits:
    23,759
    Ratings:
    +43,587 / 82 / -39
    How is Abrams and Rock's pairing strange if they are both filmmakers?
     
    • Like Like x 2
  18. andrea.conti.91

    andrea.conti.91 Rebelscum

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2016
    Posts:
    200
    Likes Received:
    312
    Trophy Points:
    1,352
    Credits:
    796
    Ratings:
    +502 / 7 / -3

    The question is not if is TFA similar to ANH. Of course it is, and of course there's an obvious intent of redoing/mirroring some plot points from the OT.

    The real question is: is TFA reducible to a remake of ANH? You can't say it's a "remake with different characters", that's an oxymoron. If there are different characters, doing different things, so the movie is no more a remake.

    Yes, there are different graduations of remaking an old movie. You can do a step by step remake like Gus van Sant's Psycho; or do something less depending on the original one, like brothers Coen's True Grit. But even here: despite the global freedom in redoing that classic western, the characters are still the same, the basic plot is still the same, with some change and variation.

    Now, let's take TFA. If you reduce the three acts at the lower level of storytelling, you may of course notice the similarities with ANH:
    - act 1: droid escapes from an attack, and take pivotal informations to the main hero, who lives in a desert;
    - act 2: an old guy helps the hero to take the informations to the good guys, driving the main characters to the good guys' base;
    - act 3: the good guys receive the informations and attack the main evil guys' base/weapon, blowing it up and saving the day.

    You can see by yourself that these schematics doesn't tie with the actual movie. ANH act 2 is developed around the escape from the DS, while TFA develops it around Maz's castle and everything happens there (Luke's lightsaber; Resistance/FO battle; Rey's abduction...). ANH act 1 is linear and pretty simple, while in TFA we see the story from almost 3 points of view (Kylo's; Finn's; Rey's), and the main plot points are quite different (Kylo's attack; Finn's deception; Poe's torture and escape; Rey's escape from Jakku). Yes, both the acts have the escape with the Falcon as the main turning point, but the context is very different, and each one leads to a different plot point: being captured by the Empire in ANH; reunite with Han in TFA. So I guess the Falcon is just one of that mirroring elements, but installed on a very different plot. And so on, without considering the general threads that are totally different from ANH's (ANH didn't rely on the family thread, and the Force is more a contextual element than an actual plot thread).

    I'm a TFA enthusiast, I'm not denying it. But it's a matter of intelligence to understand that the similarities TFA has with ANH don't make that movie a remake of the older one. Or, at least, it's a very new kind of remake they lead to, so free in its adaptation of the original plot that it almost seems a different movie.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Wise Wise x 1
  19. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2014
    Posts:
    2,285
    Likes Received:
    4,428
    Trophy Points:
    13,687
    Credits:
    5,976
    Ratings:
    +6,712 / 176 / -38
    I actually think there is a small base of fans who would have hated TFA because George Lucas directed it, just as there are a small base of fans who hate TFA because JJ directed it.

    I think the majority fans go into a SW movie with a open mind and keep their fingers crossed.
     
    • Like Like x 3
Loading...

Share This Page