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SPECULATION you mean the murderers traitors and thieves you call friends

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by Bandini, Sep 11, 2016.

  1. Bandini

    Bandini Jedi Commander

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    Well, we could assume Finn is the traitor but who are the murderer and the thief Kylo Ren is speaking of ?

    We can assume Solo is the thief. Is Luke the murderer ?
     
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  2. BloodyShadow

    BloodyShadow Force Sensitive

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    That's a very good question.
    But if it's Luke who would be the person killed? It might be a person who count for Kylo.
    Even if it's less probable, it could also be the Resistance pilots given that they kills a lot of TIE-fighter pilots and stormtrooper.
     
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  3. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    anyone associated with the Resistance could be considered both traitors and murderers.

    i assume he's talking collectively about Finn, Han, and Chewbacca since he's referring to Rey's "friends" who were at Takodana.
    they aren't each one thing, but all things. all of them are murderers, traitors, and thieves in his eyes.

    they have killed FO personnel, they are traitors to the FO cause, and they stole the Falcon and BB-8 (the first being property belonging to Plutt, and the second being property Ren feels entitled to--if the map was, in fact, stolen from the archive of the Empire, then that's thievery as well).
     
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  4. nightangel

    nightangel Rebel Official

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    but it is funny that he says this, since he is a murderer (LST, his own father and more), traitor (to his mentor Luke and his parents) and maybe even a thief (stealing Vaders mask) himself. Maybe he speaks to himself. ;)
     
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  5. Bandini

    Bandini Jedi Commander

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    Maybe he had good reasons to do that. It brings us back to why he turned to the dark side. Something must have happened,

    Another funny thing is that people are always finding excuses for Vader and not one for Ben Solo.
     
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  6. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    pretty much everything Kylo Ren says can be looked at as self-reflexive:
    "you're so lonely"
    "Han Solo can't save you now."​

    i'm not sure why you say that since there is a whole tribe on the Cantina forums who routinely defend Ben and rationalize his behavior ~ hahaha
     
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  7. Bandini

    Bandini Jedi Commander

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    That was one of my early guess that Ben Solo and Rey were both sides of Anakin. The dark and the light. Like both sides of the same coins. Yin and Yang is obvious ( look at the interrogation scene ( the black and white ).

    [​IMG]

    And that's why I never really withdrawn ( is this correct ? ) the possibility of her being a Solo ( especially with the Anastasia's references and LST saying she's royalty ) even if I don't get the why problem.

    In the scene of the saber when Ben said this saber it belongs to me, the saber goes to the light side of Anakin because it was his during his light side story.
     
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  8. nightangel

    nightangel Rebel Official

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    I don't find excuses for what Vader/Anakin did and I don't find excuses for what Kylo/Ben did. I never find or accept excuses for doing evil things. ;)
     
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  9. BloodyShadow

    BloodyShadow Force Sensitive

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    That's your choice but, in my opinion, "Every bad guy has a good reason to be one. Most of them think they are doing the right thing. And few of them are right." ;)

    The coin comparison is well-chosen. They have indeed much more in common with each other than might seem.
     
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  10. nightangel

    nightangel Rebel Official

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    Not if they want to portray Luke as the bad guy to make Kylo look better and most discussions go into this way. I never bond or care for the evil/bad guys. :confused:

    At all the movies I watched over many years, I never was into the bad guys and always was rooting for the hero. I never understood it that people prefer evil guys. :oops:
     
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  11. Bandini

    Bandini Jedi Commander

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    I'm in the same boat, I don't like bad guys ( maybe because I'm one - jk ) but it remembers me JCVD and his goose for The Expandables ( which I didn't see ) but I couldn't resist JCVD's quotes.
     
  12. BloodyShadow

    BloodyShadow Force Sensitive

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    I think that people usually prefer bad guys because they are most of the time much more well-written than good guys. They usually have more emotional depth or things like that than most of the good guys who are usually paragons of virtue and hence, predictable and kinda unrealistic, whereas bad guys personality are often more close to real personality (except isolated cases).
    That does not mean that people who think that don't like good guys. They usually like all characters with an interesting and/or realistic personality. Sense of humour helps too in both case.
     
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  13. nightangel

    nightangel Rebel Official

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    And that's why I dislike the bad guys as main inspiration so much, because they are so close to real personalities. I don't want to see this when I escape reality with such a movie and I want to see positve people who inspire me and not broken personalities who kill for whatever reasons. I only need to switch on TV to see them in the news. :confused: But it is a trend in movies for quite some time and I heavily dislike it. :(
     
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  14. Bandini

    Bandini Jedi Commander

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    That's why I had some problems with Breaking Bad. Walter White is an absolute **** !!!
     
  15. BloodyShadow

    BloodyShadow Force Sensitive

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    To love bad guys not necessarily imply that we agree with their actions and your perspective is fully understandable and not really questionable.
     
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  16. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    the two are not mutually exclusive. you can relate to and feel for the bad guys and still root for the heroes.
    just because i loved Darth Vader as a kid didn't mean i didn't want to see Luke, Han, and Leia win.

    while i would be hard pressed to argue that the FO is "right" about what they are doing at this point, the Centrist mentality certainly has a side to it which is pure in its interests, and i hope that is something that gets more deeply explored.
     
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  17. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    Murderer - Leia

    Traitor - Han

    .
     
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  18. BloodyShadow

    BloodyShadow Force Sensitive

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    fully agree. Let's say that their aim (Hux just wants order in the galaxy) are right but the means they use to achieve it are very debatable (send an emissary instead of destroying a system would have been a good idea)
     
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  19. Choose Light

    Choose Light Mando Maven and Brown Eyes Backer

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    I don't blame you for wanting to escape reality and see positive, inspiring heroes. This is one of the main reasons I love Star Wars. It shows us that good can conquer evil, that love can overcome hurt and pain. That's why I cheer so hard for Kylo Ren to be redeemed--so that the Light in him can conquer the Dark and Leia can get her beloved son back. To me for the Dark to transform into the Light is so much more inspiring than the Light just trying to stomp the Dark out. :)
     
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  20. Jedi MD

    Jedi MD Jedi Commander

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    You have to remember that Kylo sees what he is doing as right and justified. Therefore he sees similar actions (and maybe some not so severe) as being bad while finding no fault in his own actions.
     
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