Your ideas for IX's plot.

Just a thought, but what if IX shows Kylo Ren recruiting and training a new generation of Dark Side users? He is not a Sith, so no rule of two. People expect to see Rey training a new generation of Jedi. What if we get the opposite?

 

1. I wanna see the Knights of Wren
2. I'd love to see a flashback with Luke alive and doing some cool Jedi stuff. Since we didn't get it yet, this is the time.
3. I wanna see Kylo unredeemed and/or Rey dies.
4. Go to Mustafar.
5. Before she dies, Rey rebuilds the Jedi order, even if it only with a few Jedi.
6. Stop with the idea that we need to subvert expectations, blah blah blah.

Just my .02

 

Knights of REN, not Wren. It's a huge difference. But yeah, gimme some Knights of Ren.

No flashbacks in SW.

Yes. Yes. Yes.

 

It needs a villain. Ren isn’t a central villain in my eyes. He’s one half of the protagonist. But how do they bring in a new villain that poses a great threat, can be explained and ties everything together?

PLAGUEIS.

It’s not that hard to do. Have him as the ultimate puppet master who seeks to maintain galactic conflict. He realised it when he was a Sith. And aspired to be greater. So he either faked his death or actually died but managed to live in some way, perhaps becoming a part of the Dark Side itself. He has controlled people from the start - Sidious, Snoke etc

How is this revealed? Through Luke. I’d love to see the netherworld of the Force visualised. Luke discovers what Plagueis did and seeks to destroy his power within this other realm. But in order to get to him, his power in the real world must be destroyed. The Force must be balanced. And so Rey, against her will now, must redeem Ben. That’s the tension. Not waiting for the twist where Ben finally turns. But the pressure on Rey to turn him despite everything.

So my story in very brief bulletin points would be:

- FO and Resistance on equal footing. War is at an impasse. Ren becoming dissolusioned. His plots his take over. Rey and Resistance on new planet. Rey has been teaching Finn about the Force.

- Luke seeking answers in the netherworld, learns of Plagueis.

- After a conflict, Ren is betrayed by Hux and injured but he escapes. The KoR are now loyal to Hux. We could be told that Leia perished in this battle.

- Rey wants to kill Ren. Luke appears to her and tells her what he has learned. They have to stop the FO and redeem Ben.

- Rey searches for Ren. Finds him on a planet. He’s in bad shape. She saves his life and asks him to join her. He refuses. She leaves.

- In a great battle the FO and KoR are smashing the Resistance. Rey joins the fight and takes in the KoR. Finn is trying to lead a rebellion of the Stormtroopers. Anakin appears to Ren.

- Ren arrives just in time to help Rey vs KoR. Hux sees all could be lost and deploys a dark side weapon (Force well) that will swallow worlds. Rey and Ren call upon their force power to stop it.

- Finn confronts Hux and the stormtroopers turn on the general.

- With the FO rebellion and Ben redeemed, Plagueis’ power is weakened. Luke battles him in the netherworld and is joined by his father, Yoda and Kenobi. They overwhelm Plagueis and Rey and Ben stop the weapon. But it comes at a price. They both die.

- The film ends with Finn telling the story of Rey to his Jedi pupils....

 

By bringing in Plagueis you would "ruin" Kylo's character arc of TLJ. Furthermore "work with that what you got". Kylo can function as villain, then we have Hux and the KOR too. Plenty of villains here to choose from.

This should be the main threat of EPIX and not another puppet master. At least in my opinion. Less is more.

I think it should actually go the other way. Ren wants to find Rey and "kill" her.


Even though I like most of your story ideas (except for Finn being FS), I can't see JJ introducing Plagueis that late to the game. It would feel forced. I'm a fan of stories with few characters. If I look at all the new casting calls for IX, I'm already worried. Too many new characters.

 

I don't agree. It doesn't take away Ren's agency. He still made the same choices. And he still will have did what Vader never managed. But the result of it all for Ren would be the same whether Plagueis is knocking about or not. He's still going to be conflicted. He will still probably do the right thing in the end and see the Dark Side for the sham it is. This just provides a more stable and thus menacing villain behind the scenes.

I don't think he can. We know him too well, intimately. He can create danger and peril but he cannot instil much fear in us anymore because we know of his humanity. As for Hux, he's too much of a joke to be taken seriously as a real villain.

That's the way it is going. And in fact, the way it has gone over the past two films. I think there needs to be something new put into the mix to stir things up.

Not saying he is properly FS (though everyone is to a degree). Just that he has everything he needs to build a Jedi order. I just think it would be a surprising and interesting story turn.

The beauty of Plagueis is that, although newly introduced, his story can be embedded throughout the saga and given depth and a context.

 

I see you, but then people could say he's evil because of Plagueis. No, it's all about himself now. He's a villain who has to redeem himself. That's something fresh.

Great villains don't need to be fearsome. Hux being a "joke" is a great set up for him being the villain IMO.

Apparently I've watched different movies than you. Neither in TFA, nor in TLJ Kylo tried to kill Rey. I dislike TLJ for that btw. Ren should have hated Rey in the first act of TLJ. But that's a different topic.

I prefer Finn to have his own story. Give him the Stormtrooper revolution and some action with Poe.

I would rather have a full trilogy focusing on Plagueis than 10 minutes of the final movie which tries to please everyone.

 

Bringing Plageueis back would be the ultimate form of fan service. I could really see JJ doing it.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 9, 2018, Original Post Date: Oct 9, 2018 ---

I really think that the blue Skywalker lightsaber is going to come into play somehow in the finale of this movie. Ren and Rey have been fighting over it for the last two movies. If Ben is redeemed, it would make a great moment if he were to finally be worthy of it and wield it.

 

I don't think so. Ren's choices were his own. Not suggesting he was possessed or coerced by Plagueis.

I think they do. You can't take Hux seriously. And if this is the end of the Skywalker saga, the villain needs to be as big as the whole story. Plagueis would provide this ultimate threat and his death would provide a true climax to this saga.

I mean in terms of Kylo being bad and battling the hero (and Rey at some point). It just feels a bit stayed. I think it better for them to have a confrontation early on and then have the climax of the movie be something else. I like the idea of them being two sides to the same protagonist. Endlessly fighting until one turns at the end is a little predictable and doesn't really provide anything new.

I get that. I just think it would be a cool thing and show how being a Jedi isn't so much about how many rocks you can lift but (don't get all mushy on me) how big your heart is. And Big Deal has a big heart.

We can have that too!

 

I have an iea on how Ben is redeemed but I'm not wanting to say it in case it's what happens. But I'll say this, there are these things in these episodes that jump out at me. Like a line from Kylo in TFA when he says to Han "I want to be free of this pain" and his whole deal with wanting to "kill the past". Luke had the same kind of mentality in TLJ. But why? Because something happened in the past that was so painful, they wanted to escape it. They wanted to run from the pain of it.

I have an idea that in EIX there's going to be a revelation. We're going to find out what pain Kylo is desparate to escape. Something happened to him that caused such pain that it killed Ben Solo. Trauma that caused him to create a new persona "Kylo Ren" the galaxy's most uncaring and heartless machine of a man. He put on the mask to hide from the past. But it's not working. The conflict is there, you can see it. No matter what he does, that pain is connected to him. Following him. Haunting him. That is what he's lashing out at.

The only way to bring Ben back, is to fix that pain. Without that one panacea, Kylo is like:

 

The other angle with Plagueis is that he creates a perfect way to end the Skywalker story. Everything we have seen play out could be put down to the birth of Anakin himself. That his very "creation" was what ended up offsetting the balance of the Force. Essentially, the Skywalker family have a power that is unnatural and will forever be cursed with being a threat to peace in the galaxy. It could be that Plagueis was the architect. It might be that he was the one manipulated the Force to create this bloodline. It could be that it was only something that can be done once. But in creating this bloodline, whenever it goes pear shaped, as it did with Anakin & Ben - there is a reaction to it. With Anakin, there were his kids. Naturally born and then guided by the Force to restore balance. And now with Ben, there is Rey - perhaps empowered by the Force to confront Ren - "darkness rises and light to meet it". My belief, is that the Skywalker bloodline needs to (and likely will) die off - not just in terms of the in-universe story but also in order to allow for new SW stories to be told post the Skywalker Saga.

And so Plagueis being the ultimate villain, bookends this saga. He created this mess (we have the foundations laid down for us in the Prequel Trilogy) and with his ultimate demise, along with the Skywalker's (perhaps in a self-sacrificial way), it shall end. The final message being that it isn't good for power to be centralised and dominated by a few, but to be shared by the many. That's what Luke was sort of getting at in TLJ but ended up going off track. He took all the pieces of the jigsaw but forced them into making the wrong picture. He knew the Force shouldn't be monopolised. He knew the dangers of his bloodline. But he decided that doing nothing & a quiet death were the answer. It wasn't. That enabled the darkness to rise further. The answer is confronting the darkness and using the power of the light to make the peace the galaxy desires. And Luke has a greater role to play still.

Plagueis' backstory, of which we know very little, allows for a great explanation to how he is behind all this whilst giving the creators carte blanche in creating "a new character". We know he could potentially create life. We know he was adept and knowledgable about cheating death. We know he was very wise. We know the Sith are manipulative and lie to one another. He'd be easily explained - far more so than any new villain. What's more, His involvement can even explain Snoke in a throw away sentence (and thus empower Plagueis further): 'Snoke? He was my puppet, like Sidious! I saved him from the jaws of death and gave him the knowledge to destroy my enemies...'. That alone would explain Snoke's power, where he came from and how he seemingly survived what looks like a fatal accident. Again, Plagueis is the key.

And for Ren - this all works in favour of his story and his redemption. As @Sparafucile hints to above, Ren could perhaps have anger at being born. He's bitter because of the pain he has endured all his life, the conflict, of being a Skywalker. Thus, it makes sense, that having the creator of this family at the heart of the story, ties perfectly into Ren's journey.

It just makes sense to me on so many levels and still has the power to sort the whole story out and ensure it makes sense & comes to a satisfactory conclusion.

 

I like this a lot. Before TLJ I thought that his childhood trauma would be finding out that Han had had a child with another woman... (that child not necessarily being Rey) or that perhaps Han had done something not only hurtful but also “weak and foolish”, something deameaning in Kylo’s eyes (as Kylo seems quite snobby and class conscious.)

 

I have to disagree with you on this. I don't think it wise to suggest Ren isn't responsible for his actions. He decided to betray his family and join the FO. He decided not to join Rey. I don't think that was down to his genetics. However, his family history and genes of course play a big role in why HE MADE those choices. My feeling on Plagueis' part in his story is that it could validate in Ren's mind why he is on the dark path. It could make him believe that he is destined to do what he is doing and that he doesn't have a choice. But again, he's wrong. And seeing the examples of others as well as perhaps hearing from the original Plagueis creation, Anakin, will make him see the light? It all depends on what it is that Ren really wants/wants to cure. To me, it all stems from his being born with this great power and not being shown how best to direct it. He felt neglected and pushed aside. And this was manipulated by dark forces. It seems that Ren may think he was born with this conflict. Han said it about his son "he has too much Vader in him". Han was wrong and I suspect was just being emotional when he said it - deflecting from his own mistakes as a father. Yes, he has darkness in him (and it is more volatile and powerful because of who he is). But we're all born with the capacity to do good and evil. And this is the lesson Ren needs to learn. He needs to realise that he is in control of his own destiny and that the dark side is not the answer to his inner conflict.

Yeah, I've had similar thoughts. The whole Rey thing will be interesting to see play out. Why is she powerful? Was the "darkness rises and light to meet it" implying that Rey's power was a direct result of Kylo's move to the Dark Side? I think so. I don't think it a coincidence that she was born when Ben was 10 and likely already being pulled towards the Dark Side. If I had to guess, I'd say that Rey's power awakened because of her DESTINED interaction with Ren. Then, she quickly caught up to his level. The more powerful he becomes, as does she - and vice verser. This could mean that if he dies, she dies - and vice verser. And at the end of it, the galaxy will return to the "normal" power level of Force users. No more Skywalker type anomalies, which let's face it, make for boring stories going forward. And that is why I think Finn could represent the new age of the Jedi.

 

LOOK WHO'S BACK... NICE (more @NinjaRen and @master_shaitan showdowns PLZ)

 

No one's ever really gone


p.s. Not a showdown with my old friend @NinjaRen - I hope the tone of my above post doesn't suggest that!

p.p.s.Thanks for the warm welcome home

 

Stormtrooper Uprising, omg, say no more... Yeah, Finn on his knees on board the Supremacy, Hux slapping him, oh boy, its a Finn Fanboy's wet dream. GIVE US THE UPRISING I SAY

Are you a movie talk fan? Outlaw Fan, John Steven Rocha Fan? Just wondering Rocha uses that word allot.

 

i'm going to bet my house that Luke is behind the whole thing, the entire plot of all three movies... he feels responsible for Ben turning to the Dark Side and he's trying to bring him back the same way he did Vadar at the end. it's the same story as the original trilogy... but luke is playing the Obi Wan Kenobi role.
In the original trilogy it was Obi Wan who felt responsible, now it's Luke. Obi Wan trained Luke to fight Vadar, and now Luke is training Rey to fight Kylo. Obi Wan knew that he could never turn Vadar himself because the hatred was too great, and Luke knows its the same thing with him and Kylo. He would never listen to Luke. That's why he's been training Rey up to do it. Luke is the one who has been bridging their minds all along. He can't reveal that to Kylo, though, because if he finds out they are in league then then he'll just turn all his hatred onto Rey.

Seeing as they've repeated a load of other plot points like the Death Star, Leia leading the rebellion against the odds, Luke starting on a barren plant, kylo being the emperor’s student, kylo ‘killing’ a defenceless Luke with a lightsaber (just like Vader killed obi wan), im guessing that even the ending will be the same... Kylo will redeem himself saving Rey, and then they'll end with a shot of Luke and Ben reunited as happy force ghosts, just like they had Obi Wan and Anakin reunited at the end of the other movie. And Rey will be the one left alive to carry on the Jedi way.

 

Finn finds out that he actually is a jedi. (son of Lando and Leia) (alluding to TFA where he fought Kylo with a saber).
Rey kills off the KOR
Kylo kills Rey
Finn kills Kylo.

It's gonna take something crazy like this for me to care after the boring setup TLJ gave us.