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Your ideas for IX's plot.

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode IX' started by Sparafucile, Sep 27, 2018.

  1. Sparafucile

    Sparafucile Rebel General

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    I don't see it, and wouldn't want it depicted as an excuse either.

    Here's how I see it.

    If the Skywalker line is created by Plagueis, and by its very creation an act of darkness, then the bloodline as a whole is tainted. Luke would therefor be proof that one can rise above the taint, but he would also be proof that it is a lifelong struggle and that there may always be a stronger than ordinary pull toward darker tendencies. Anakin also would be proof of this, although his larger body of work, and that for which he is remembered would be his time as Vader. Luke's major failure would be his loss of control standing above his nephew. Ben's, from what we know, would be more consistently evil than either of them so far.

    In no way is this an excuse, but I would see it as though Anakin wins a lottery and is rich beyond imagining. He desires to do good, but somewhere along the way he loses track of himself and the power that the money gives him goes to his head, and he becomes a tyrant. Cue Luke, who doesn't know he's wealthy but comes to realize it, soon after he's met with a challenge that his wealth could "fix" and because the wealth and power hasn't become second nature but is new and still respected and revered, he chooses right. By the time he trains Ben, the wealth has become old hat and he takes it for granted, thus his failure. Ben was raised with the wealth much as Anakin was, but he was further tainted by Plagueis, haunted by his family history, fed with a silver spoon with greater pressure due to the hero status of his parents. He's essentially the spoiled brat with daddy's money who's never been given boundaries. I think from what we've seen he fits that depiction quite well.

    So none of their wrongs are excused, but they can be understood. Replace money with Force and the analogy fits well. So no, they're transgressions are not excused, but based on their life experience, their failures can be understood and followed to its root of winning that lottery. In the end, had they not had that wealth, they would have never been placed in that position of power, thus would have likely lived pedestrian lives. In this case, they would likely have never existed.

    In contrast, Rey can show that someone can win a lottery and still maintain their core goodness. Or, her story could be the challenge of her life dealing with the responsibility of having that wealth of power that she never asked for and cannot get rid of.
    I don't know what movie talk, Outlaw Fan nor who Rocha is. I think I heard the term on Smallville a long time ago and once in a while, when I think it fits, I use it lol.
     
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  2. Rogues1138

    Rogues1138 Jedi General

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    Movie Talk is a show on Youtube that reviews films. Rocha is one of the many host that reviews movies, for some reason he loved using the word, Gravitas, so much so it became contagious. The entire staff started using it and when they did they all laughed including Rocha. Rocha tried so hard not to use the word when reviewing a film but he could not help himself and it was too funny.
     
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  3. Sparafucile

    Sparafucile Rebel General

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    That's pretty funny. I haven't watched much on Youtube. I've always known it's there, just never bothered with it. I've watched more Youtube in the months I've joined the Cantina (just after TLJ release) than I have the whole of the rest of my life, but I find watching most of the hate videos on TLJ exhausting. I stumbled on Steven Crowder this week and so far I've been enjoying his "Change my mind" segments. I'm not even sure if it is Smallville where I picked up the word gravitas, but every time I use it I think of John Glover as Lionel Luthor lol. I'll have to check out Movie Talk. ;)
     
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  4. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    I believe that this trilogy could actually be more about those people behind the scenes that benefit from the galactic conflict, making both our heroes and villains the "victims". We're given a hint in The Last Jedi, that the galactic war is being pushed by those who profit from war, when DJ schools Finn on how the good guys aren't as morally clean as he thinks.

    'Good guys, bad guys...Made-up words. Let's see who formally owns this gorgeous hunk. This guy was an arms dealer. Made his bank selling weapons to the bad guys. Oh, and the good ones. Finn, let me learn you something big. It's all a machine, partner. Live free, don't join'.

    It strikes me that this will be a big thread for Finn's story. Many people are wondering what the point of his character and arc is - well, this is it. Finn is the one in the position to see how the war can truly be ended. Not only by leading a mutiny of the Stormtroopers but by targeting those that profit from war and want to see it continue. So that's Finn's story, that's what will keep the Resistance busy. But what about Rey?

    The shocking demise of Snoke in
    The Last Jedi, appears to have removed The Big Bad from the story. Many question, including myself, if Kylo Ren is strong enough a villain. Or rather, are we know him so intimately that he doesn't hold the same weight as a Snoke, or Palpatine or even Vader. I also believe it to be expected that Kylo will be redeemed in some way. It just doesn't sit well with me that the goodness of Vader's redemption in Return of the Jedi, will be undone. So who will the "main villain" be? My view is that it could be someone we have yet to meet. Someone behind the scenes who has manipulated the galactic conflict since day one. Those that know me, know that I am a strong proponent of bringing Plagueis back into the mix. And I believe he could fit this role perfectly - in that not only does it fit the mould of profiteering from war but also that I have long believed that if Plagueis survived, he did so through the strength of the Dark Side - which is empowered by war. Think back to the opening crawl of Revenge of the Sith:

    'War! The Republic is crumbling under attacks by the ruthless Sith Lord, Count Dooku. There are heroes on both sides. Evil is everywhere'.

    Plagueis or not, what has been apparent throughout the saga is that the real villain has always been The Dark Side. And the Dark Side is first and foremost: GREED. And it is that greed that brought about the fall of the Republic in the PT and then the rise of the FO in the ST. The reason why the OT didn't end the story was because it merely dealt with the demise of the Sith. Luke Skywalker succeeded in his mission to redeem his father and destroy the Empire, but it didn't deal with the bigger picture. The ideals of the Empire remained. Those that benefitted from war lived on. The conflict was bound to restart and evil would once again take over.

    Maz Kanata hints at all this in The Force Awakens:

    'I've seen evil take many forms. The Sith. The Empire. Today, it is the First Order'.

    It's an endless cycle where conflict is merely temporary but ready to explode at any time and consume the galaxy - and if not for the Jedi, it would do so forever. Of course, one cannot ever rid the galaxy of evil. There will always be greed and fear and hatred. But what Rey needs to do is end this cycle of galactic conflict. And that means, along with Finn, need to do something different. They can't just kill the Sith/bad guys - they must kill the ideology that motivates them. That means cutting off the head of the beast which spreads this ideology. And that in my mind are the greedy profiteers of war.

    So I believe early on in IX we might be introduced to these greedy warmongers who manipulate both sides. This then means at some point, that Rey and Ren must once again unite to defeat them. So the battle for Rey to redeem Ren alongside Finn's mission to
    redeem the Stormtroopers is about them changing the ideologies of the bad guys rather than just destroying them. There will always be another Kylo. There will always be another FO, as there was another Empire. The important thing is "victory" isn't achieved by destroying those that fight for the ideology, but by destroying the ideology itself - something we know all too well in the real world with religious extremism. I believe that these extremists in our world are manipulated by those at the top who seek power. Religion is a great weapon and is used to manipulate those into committing abhorrent acts against their fellow man. It has been used across time to get the people behind the cause of their despotic rulers/leaders. But it is a tool of those greedy individuals at the top who seek more and more power/wealth. And in the Star Wars universe, the religion of the Force, has been used in the same way. This is what Ren has to realise. And I believe this is what will bring him to his senses. To be honest, he's already thinking along the right kind of lines but it has become poisoned. He wants to destroy it all and start from scratch. But he's looking through a narrow tunnel and can't see the bigger picture. He can't see those above him manipulating his every move. He believes killing Snoke makes him the master. It doesn't. It just makes him the chief puppet.

    What Ren needs to discover is both that his inner conflict and the galaxy conflict, that he wants to end, can be defeated by letting go of his own greed and destroying these greedy individuals above him. This is also helps The Last Jedi make more sense, story wise. For now we can see that it will be a huge challenge to redeem him (for Rey) and at the same time provide Ren with chance to see at some point that "doing what Vader didn't manage" isn't all it's cracked up to be.

    So I see that being the theme at the heart of the story. In practice, I think we'll see Ren be displaced as leader of the FO midway through the film and slowly be redeemed until a climax at the end sees him and Rey face off against whoever the hell is at the top of all this. Meanwhile, the other thread will be Finn trying to win over the FO stormtroopers from under Hux's feet in order to end what would in conflict be an endless war.
     
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