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SPECULATION Your thoughts on Attack Of The Clones

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Grand Admiral Kraum, Mar 24, 2015.

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Your thoughts on Attack Of The Clones?

  1. Great!

    29 vote(s)
    17.5%
  2. Decent

    55 vote(s)
    33.1%
  3. Average

    22 vote(s)
    13.3%
  4. Not good enough

    29 vote(s)
    17.5%
  5. Terrible

    31 vote(s)
    18.7%
  1. Grand Admiral Kraum

    Grand Admiral Kraum Force Sensitive

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    It isn't very good.
     
    #1 Grand Admiral Kraum, Mar 24, 2015
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  2. DEKKA129

    DEKKA129 Professional Slinger of Balderdash

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    I'm sure I'll catch hell from somebody for this, but...

    For me, AOTC is right at the bottom of the Star Wars heap, just a hair above TPM. Like you, I find plenty of isolated elements of the movie that I like. The first half a minute or so of the movie, with the unorthodox upward pan following the opening crawl, and then that slow, graceful approach of the Naboo ship to a fog-enshrouded Coruscant is my favorite opener of all three PT films, and is IMHO second only to the ANH opener in my book. Just a fantastic looking series of shots.

    I also really dig seeing more of Coruscant, and not just the halls of power. The diner scene is rather hokey, but the speeder chase is a lot of fun and I love the way Sidious and Dooku meet in an old abandoned building in the industrial sector. Coruscant never looked better, IMHO, than in AOTC.

    I have to say, too, that although the scene overall gets a little dicey as it goes along, I have always appreciated the Ray Harryhausen homage in the Geonosis arena battle.

    But man, there is so much of this movie that doesn't work for me at all. Turning Anakin from an idealistic kid into an obsessed stalker was a really odd way to go with the character, and while it foreshadows his eventual dark side turn, to me it really just negated the whole thing of him being a good man who ended up being lured by the dark side. As it stands, he's basically a leering sociopath who, to absolutely nobody's surprise other than those who should have known better, ends up turning to the dark side. And the romance scenes... my god, did George need a screenwriter who understood how people actually talk in these situations. "Courtly language", my ass... that's like misspelling a word and then claiming that you deliberately created a new spelling variant for it.

    I also thought it was rather pointless to change Boba Fett into Jango Fett and show Boba as a small child. Because apparently, the original plan was for the bounty hunter to be Boba Fett. But Lucas fell into this thing of assuming that any character who kicks any amount of ass can't be over about the age of 35, and having Boba Fett as an adult in the PT would have meant that he'd be a hobbling old geezer by the time the OT rolled around. Personally, I think they should have just kept it as Boba Fett, and any explanation would be that the guy is just that much of a badass, or that he comes from a planet where they live a long time or ANYTHING but copping out and showing a Muppet Baby version of him.

    Overall, though, I just never felt like AOTC held together all that well. It seemed like a fan-fic piece that was roughly cobbled together from a bunch of disparate story concepts. There were elements that I liked on a superficial level, but overall it's not a movie with a ton of rewatch value to it for me.
     
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  3. smoothkaz

    smoothkaz Clone

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    The first two acts are a noticeable improvement over TPM in my opinion. Better pacing, better atmosphere, and better characterization. That last one is extremely debatable to some, but I thought Anakin was portrayed very well, both in how he was written and in Hayden's performance. He's whiny, arrogant, argumentative and awkward, but that was the point. He's different from the rest of the Jedi, who are detached and logical to the point that they've become blind to to the growing power of the Dark Side and little more than servants to the Republic. Mace says at the beginning - "We are keepers of the peace, not soldiers" - but in the end, that's exactly what they are. Without even realizing it, they've lost their spirituality and become pawns.

    Where the Jedi reject emotion and attachment, Anakin embraces it. He knows he's powerful and feels he's being held back from using his abilities to make a difference. He tries to follow the Jedi path but his feelings take over. He clashes with his master. It's clear that they're close - he confides with Obi-Wan about his dreams and directly disobeys the council to save him - but real brothers fight all the time, especially with an older brother in a position of authority.

    Hayden and Natalie have definite chemistry, most apparent in scenes where they're laughing together or bickering playfully. The dialogue in the fireplace scene falls flat - It may have been intentionally flowery and over-the-top, but it didn't work. I can overlook it though. The balcony scene is corny too but it really isn't that bad - it's not much campier than anything else in the saga.

    Hayden isn't a great actor, but neither were Mark Hamill or Carrie Fisher. What made them work, and what made Hayden work, is how well they fit the roles and the earnestness of their performances. Hayden captures the headstrong, conflicted personality of Anakin perfectly. A lot of emotion comes through from his facial expressions, and body language. And when he's angry, you genuinely believe it. His performance evolves between episodes as - in the opening scene of ROTS you can tell right away he's calmer, more confident, and has been through more. His interactions with Obi-Wan have gone from "bickering siblings" to genuine friendship and trust.

    Obi-Wan's "detective story" is great - everything on Kamino is executed perfectly. The atmosphere is unsettling and foreboding; Kamino itself is gorgeous, as are the Kaminoans; as questions are answered, even more mysteries are introduced, keeping the audience immersed and on the edge of their seats.And I especially love how Ewan's portrayal of Obi-Wan is evolving - there's a ton of Alec Guinness in his performance, but he still feels like an older and wiser version of the Padawan from Episode I.

    I love how the Clone Wars was revealed, and how it ties into Sidious' plot and the Classic Trilogy. It's different from what anyone expected, and it hits you hard. The final scene of the Republic Army set to the Imperial March with Palpatine overlooking gives me chills every time.

    Out of all the prequels, AOTC has the most "rhymes" with the OT. Personally I love this - it somehow doesn't feel forced and it's thrilling to see when OT characters show up or a major event is foreshadowed. from

    Visually, it's mixed. The design work is gorgeous as always - I feel like the CGI actually looks better than the live action though. The early HD footage is flat and lacks detail compared to ROTS. The CGI has aged pretty well, especially the Clone Troopers - they still look almost real. The integration of live action and CGI is poor though - very rarely did I believe the actors were actually part of the environments. This is especially apparent in the droid factory sequence.

    The third act is what drags the movie down - the droid factory sequence is terrible. It could have been cool but it's so poorly executed - it feels like a video game. Artoo flying is stupid and never should have been done - every time he flies in The Clone Wars I get a little ticked. The arena scene was cool, but the actual Battle of Geonosis has no atmosphere or tension at all. And Threepio... please don't get me started. I cringe to even think about it.
    The final lightsaber duel is the most poorly shot, poorly edited, anticlimactic duel in the entire saga. I'm mixed on Yoda using a lightsaber at all, but in this movie it's gimmicky and the fight itself is silly.

    Dooku is a great character, and I agree he's underutilized. On one hand I like that he's only talked about for the most of the movie, and is an ambiguous character until the end. But in the trilogy as a whole he deserves much more screentime and development.

    If it wasn't for that painful third act, it would probably be my favorite of the prequels. As it is, it's very enjoyable for the most part, but the problems really stand out and affect the whole experience.
     
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  4. TrooperTK-421

    TrooperTK-421 Rebel Commander

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    Hayden Christensen was terrible - his delivery of dialogue is shocking half the time. He started well and if he'd displayed the same level of emotion as he did at the Tusken Raider camp then I'd think different, but it's an average performance of a moody teenager more suited to the Twilight Saga
     
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  5. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    I agree his lightsaber skills were exceptional but his performance as a actor flopped in this trilogy.
     
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  6. DEKKA129

    DEKKA129 Professional Slinger of Balderdash

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    I don't think that Hayden himself is a particularly bad actor. I've seen him in other films and thought he was just fine. Maybe not one of the all-time greats, but certainly decent enough.

    IMHO, the problem was more about the script and the fact that Lucas has never been much of an "actor's director." One thing I was very aware of from the first time I saw AOTC was that Hayden seemed to be trying to put a lot of Vader-ish inflections into his line readings which, while it makes sense for him to have done so, really tended to make his delivery sound forced and unnatural. A director who was adept at working with actors would probably have helped Hayden to loosen up and settle into a more natural delivery.

    Then again, an "actor's director" would probably also have reworked a lot of the dialogue so that it wasn't such a bloody minefield for the performers.

    I just never thought the character of Anakin worked all that well. There was virtually no character continuity between TPM Anakin and AOTC Anakin, and I never really saw much connection between AOTC/ROTS Anakin and the way Obi Wan described him to Luke in ANH and ROTJ, nor between "I'm going dark because I just love too much" Anakin and the power and order obsessed Darth Vader in the OT. And I really don't see that as being Hayden's fault.
     
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  7. Trevor

    Trevor Rebellion Arms Supplier
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    Honestly, I saw the OT in theaters in '77 and loved it because it was the backstory that we OT fans craved and longed for....for more years than some members have been alive. THAT being said; yes, the acting was cardboard and glitter. I'm not going to sit here and toss the PT under the bus like most that are younger than I, but there was a lot left to be desired. The acting AND lines were clunky and less than fluid...was it bad; Yes, kind of, yes. i'll always defend tho PT simply because it was a continuation of something that my generation had only envisioned for so long. For the story/backstory....I'll take it rather than wished to have never seen it.
     
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  8. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    Maybe with Jumper I agree with you.
     
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  9. DEKKA129

    DEKKA129 Professional Slinger of Balderdash

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    Yeah, that's the one I was thinking of. I thought he was just fine in that. De Niro or Hopkins or Spacey, he ain't, of course, but he doesn't seem to me to be the terrible actor that the PT (especially AOTC) made him look as though he was.
     
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  10. Talon Karrde

    Talon Karrde Rebel Official

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    This movie, for me, was apocalyptic.
    This film has consitently ranked as the WORST Star Wars film for me since it came out. Even as the initial luster I had for TPM has long faded, it has never sunk to the level of suck that this film resides in. Star Wars: The Clone Wars is a better film than this. Star Wars: Threads of Destiny is a better film than this. That's how bad AotC is.
    It's hard to put into writing without sounding like an angry fanboy.
    I do think the film has been slightly mischaracterized as some Lucas vs. Kershner ESB thing. Personally, I saw a lot more of ANH in this film than ESB. And I think a lot of that is due to Lucas' reactions to the criticisms of TPM. I saw this as Lucas taking whatever plans he originally had for Ep II and hammering them into what he thought would be a guarenteed sell of the 1977 adventure tropes while still devoting a good portion of the film to explaining what we watched in 1999.
    The end result was a dumpster fire. The plot is all over the place, and in the end doesn't even matter. Not only does it have the worst romance, it also has the worst bromance. A film that should have been plot heavy on the reasons leading up to the clone wars becomes a mix of mindless action and boredom.
    I'm still left with the memory of being in the theater and suddenly realizing that nearly two hours had passed and Clone Wars had not even begun yet. WTF!? George Lucas just burned two films on "Star Peace". This movie gets its name from the last 30 minutes of the film.. because the first two hours of this film are so strewn apart they cannot be summarized.
    But for me back then, the real killer was the Death Star plans. This, above even the grating man child portrayal of Anakin Skywalker, was what pissed me off. You guys should know by my handle I was a big EU guy. And while a lot of the midichlorian BS from TPM could be reconciled in the overarching canon.. having a bunch of termites design the death star was a clear overwrite.
    I decided after leaving the theater to let Lucas figure out what he wanted to do with star wars at that point. I took a ten year hiatus from Star Wars.
    2016 Addendum: As much as I hate this film in its current official LFL form..(and yes I slept through most of it during the TFA marathon) this film, unlike episode I, is not beyond salvation. Some months after posting this I watch the "Fall of the Galactic Republic" fan edit and was quite surprised. With a simple editing job the AotC segment was transformed from the worst star wars ever into a film that was.. okay. Rest assured, mediocrity is a HUGE improvement. Anakin's psychopathy is pretty much gone; he seems normal through most of the film. It is shocking that AotC actually works when condensed into what is essentially a 90 minute film. So what sits as the longest star wars film acutally works better as the shortest star wars film. Go figure.:confused:
    Also, I discovered this music video. Again, an edit of the Battle of Geonosis.. AND I LOVE IT!
     
    #10 Talon Karrde, Apr 2, 2015
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  11. Darth Jason 141

    Darth Jason 141 Rebel Commander

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    I liked the Phantom Menace and Revenge of the Sith.Attack of the Clones was the worst Star Wars film in the history of the universe.It wasn't the actors fault.It was the script.It had some grand ideas executed terribly.
     
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  12. DEKKA129

    DEKKA129 Professional Slinger of Balderdash

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    Yeah, I often forget about that little bit of nonsense when thinking back to AOTC. So many other things bother me about that film, but yeah... a bunch of termites designing the Death Star... and a quarter of a century before it was put into service, at that? That's the kind of hamfisted writing that really bothered me about the PT in general. Does that Death Star origin technically fit with the rest of the films? Only inasmuch as it doesn't really contradict anything that had already been established in the earlier films. But IMHO it takes something that's fundamental to the OT and turns it into the kind of fan pandering that a lot of people seem worried we'll see in TFA.

    Was it necessarily the best, slickest bit of writing to have the Death Star being introduced as having been designed by a bunch of bugs a good 25 years before it was declared operational? Wouldn't it have made more sense for the Death Star to simply be alluded to at that point? I always felt that not developing Tarkin as a character in the PT was a mistake, since he is suddenly THE big dog in the room in ANH. And IMHO, it would have been far more appropriate to show Tarkin as a cold warmonger who has no compunctions about razing a planet's cities with a fleet of star destroyers, and have him ruminating on the possibility of building something that could surpass the firepower of the entire Imperial starfeet with one single planet-killing shot. No need to show the thing being built 20 years before it was actually finished.
     
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  13. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    I agree I thought duels between Dooku, Kenobi, Anakin & Yoda could have gone on longer.
     
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  14. Shawshank

    Shawshank Rebel General

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    Hayden always had good facial expressions for Anakin (even if they were creepy sometimes).

    AOTC just had so much....filler...it was very disjointed.

    And I definitely agree that he was trying to emulate JEJ's inflections.

    The switch to digital from film and the lack of knowledge and technology to accomplish what he wanted to in the CGI is where Lucas failed in my opinion.

    And the droid shenanigans in the factory really is rough.
     
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  15. Messi

    Messi G.O.A.T.

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    Simple: The worst SW movie ever.
     
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  16. Grand Admiral Kraum

    Grand Admiral Kraum Force Sensitive

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    I'm gonna be honest here.. I think Revenge Of The Sith is the worst.

    Seriously, the opening act is BOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRIIIIIIIIING!!!!!!!!!!!!! I did a SW marathon a few months ago and lost the will to live as soon as it got to that STUPID R2D2 flamethrower scene. My God, why did they not edit that out? Weak as hell, but it did sum up what the movie was all about however:

    NOSTALGIA

    Without nostalgia, Revenge Of The Sith just falls apart. Every single so-called good part relied on something from 25 years before, The Emperor, the droids, Obi Wan, Yoda, Chewbacca, the twin suns scene.. Revenge Of The Sith is half a movie, because the other half was built decades before!

    Attack Of The Clones however... Yes it's a mediocre movie. BUT it did try something new, the crime detective sub-plot with Obi Wan was a nod in the right direction.. but it was executed poorly. The whole CGI Gladiator arena with generic big monsters and obvious green screen was dumb, the Boba Fett's dad sub-plot was forced. and the droids were crow-barred into that script like nobody's business..

    You know what? I got half-way through this rant and realized that Episode II and III both stink. Just as bad as each other.

    **** those movies, Phantom Menace is the best prequel. But that's like someone winning the egg and spoon race because everyone else dropped their eggs.

    The prequels stink. I must have been high when I wrote the OP; in fact I was.
     
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  17. Trevor

    Trevor Rebellion Arms Supplier
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    Ya know, as an OT guy (that saw them all in theaters), I find it sad that we can't just enjoy them for the backstory that they told instead of pick apart something that we didn't (and couldn't) do, but to each his own.
     
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  18. Eddy1877

    Eddy1877 Guest

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    I was taught that art needs to be critiqued with as much skill as is used to craft it, but that it still needs to be critiqued; otherwise, there's no rational basis for its appreciation.
     
    #18 Eddy1877, Jul 18, 2015
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  19. rprkjj

    rprkjj Clone Commander

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    I put not good enough. Definitely my least favorite Star Wars movie, mostly because of Anakin, the romance, and the end fight.
     
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  20. Fooled Trooper

    Fooled Trooper Rebel Official

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    Overall great concepts and ideas but awful execution....You see not enough of the Clone Wars or AnakinĀ“s Fall to the Dark Side. But I would repeat myself if I would go on....
     
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