RUMOR I broke the recent news on MvS's character. Let's discuss.

There's no proof he isn't either. Absolutely nothing is known about Uber aka Serkis. Nothing at all. He could be anyonr or anything.

Not just the PT but would tie the whole saga together

Allegedly.

 

I'd rather have a new villian that is trying to copy Vader than a villian that is simply a copy of Vader. To try and top Vader isn't really possible, so to have a villian that actually acknowledges that he needs Vaders mojo to be respected and feared, is a totally different take than just another Sith Lord.

 

I think you are being overly critical in your analysis...

I want to preface this, as we are dealing with the subject of religion, that I am not addressing anyone's core beliefs... just analyzing the correlation in theistic styles...

Christian, Muslim and Jew all believe in the same deity, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The choice of Mohamed being the prophet, or Jesus being the savior, are semantic differences within the core set of beliefs... to tie this into the Jedi/Sith mentality, it would be the belief that a "Chosen One" would emerge, and if Anakin were that chosen one...

Saying that Jedi/Sith is a difference in practice is a given... however the core set of values that they are based on is the same. They believe that there is a light side and a dark side, with one embracing it and one rejecting it. However, it is the same power that they adhere to, and their views on how that power should he used. A differing "religion" would have an entirely different take on it... one perhaps where there was no distinction between the two...

Relate this to the Christian/Muslim/Jew pantheon where there is an all "good" God on one end, and an evil "He-Satana" adversary on the other. This differs greatly from the more pantheistic faiths where each deity represented both good and bad aspects within themselves.

To me, Jedi/Sith are the same "religion", they both embrace the concept of the light and dark, and their differing philosophies simply reflect their approach to what the best way to use this power within the framework they have accepted...

I agree entirely with your analysis that Christian and Muslim differ at the core with the acceptance of Mohamed or Jesus as the chosen prophet, with Jews believing the the Messiah has not yet come at all... but I would relate Jedi/Sith more along the lines of Catholic/Satanist than Catholic/Protestant...

It is good to point out, however, that there may be "light side" offshoots that have broken away from the Jedi order, much like the Protestants broke away from the Catholics. Similarly, there may be offshoots of Sith that rejected the Rule of Two.

Beyond that, however, my point was that there is room for (although I do not think it will be represented in TFA) an entirely separate philosophy within the SW universe, one that does not embrace the concept of light and dark...

 

But those arent the only options. He wouldn't be "just another sith lord", or have to be copy of Vader. We already know he has a unique weapon, and probably a unique fighting style to go along with it. And he most likely has different motives. I would just prefer that he claimed to be a new, more powerful warrior, and we watched him try to live up to it.

 

While I also hope he isn't simply a Vader imposter, I do hope for something more along the lines of the Arthurian myth...

The Romans had occupied England, much like the Empire has occupied the galaxy.. When the Roman Empire collapsed, it left a power void, and the people were looking for a Pax Romana. This opened the way for Arthur to step up and unite the tribes.

I would imagine that the Empire is in much the same state. While nobody wants another Vader running around force-choking them for the slightest transgression, they may certainly be nostalgic for the presence of a cruel dictator who instilled fear in the public and made Imperial affairs easier...

It might even compel the officers to promote a fledgling force wielder... one who might not be as powerful as his reputation projects... and set him up as the puppet that Palpatine originally was supposed to be in the novelization..

The Skywalker bloodline ties the saga together... not Plagueis

 

Well sure, Im all for a new sith being the hand of the empire, just like vader was. Its just the notion that his motive would be to become vader/be vader that I don't like. I would rather he establish his own name.

 

Oh I agree... be your own Sith...

 

Anakin Skywalker = Reklawyks Nikana = Kylo ren No O in the name so. Han Solo = Olos Nah Still doesn't work.

 

I think it's a new Sith...Mister Peanut!!!

 

Kylo Ren either solo or Skywalker
Darth "whatever JJ/Kasdan decided to call
Him".

There's no code involved.

 

And Snoopy flies the death star which is his dog house.

 

That's totally what I thought!!

 

Let us all pause and remember something here: nowhere in the OT do we hear the word "Sith." Vader IS referred to as "The Dark Lord of the Sith" in at least one novelization of the OT, but never explicitly called this on-screen. It wasn't until the PT that the term "Sith" became common vernacular; on-screen, the only people who truly know who the Sith are (well, at least know who they are in theory) are the Jedi. Sith have all but disappeared from the galaxy and have been relegated to the pages of galactic history books. This adds to the fervor of anti-Jedi sentiment during the Clone Wars once Sith and Dark Jedi begin operating out in the open; soon after this, the Jedi themselves disappear and the Empire does everything in its power to erase them from those same history books. By the time of the OT, the average citizen (and/or average Imperial) only knows of one Force-user in the galaxy: Darth Vader. This is someone who commands immense power, not only in terms of rank within the Empire but with his mastery of the mysterious Force; to anyone who might remember, the only others to use this power within living memory were the Jedi of old.

So know we have Kylo Ren, who somehow comes to terms with his ability to use the Force and decides to use it in service of the Empire/The First Order. Who does he try to emulate, the Sith? He more than likely doesn't even know who/what they are. No, the most obvious role model is Vader; the "Darth" moniker is probably thought to be nothing more than his name. As was previously pointed out, there are only so many people who knew what Vader actually looked like, and I doubt he stopped for photo-ops very often. No, the best descriptions of him would be by word of mouth, a very unreliable but extremely effective method. To citizens of the galaxy, Vader was a hulking figure in black with a mask that covered his face and obscured his voice; he wore a black cape and wielded a red lightsaber. All Kylo really needs to do is vaguely emulate this and Force-choke some fools, and now he's got a group of followers who believe that he is Darth Vader.

I could see him being "Uber"; I can also see "Uber" being a new character. The point is that there is just as much proof that he IS in the movie than that he ISN'T: none at all. The only "proof" is that we know he was a master of manipulating the Force to create/extend life, so it is just as plausible that he is still around than it is that he died.
Plus, to go along with the first part of this post: what better way to introduce the Sith into the ST than with one we're already semi-familiar with? Kylo can spend the whole movie pretending to be Darth Vader and causing all sorts of trouble, only to catch the eye of Plagueis who approaches him and tells him what a fool he is; he does not know the power of the Dark Side, but he will.

This is a quote from Mr. Sheev Palpatine; just as Plagueius was a master of manipulating the Force, Palpatine was a master at manipulating words and others. Please give me an example from ROTS where he told Anakin the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

TL;DR: We take for granted our own "in-universe knowledge." No one in the OT knows who or what the Sith are. Schrodinger's Plagueis is both alive and dead until proven one way or the other.

 

No.

Kylo doesn't claim to be Darth Vader.

He claims to be (connected?) / of the same "force" bloodline.

Massive difference.

And he's actually a puppeted poster used to unite this new "Order" and his actual master will only be revealed towards the end of the film.

 

@Batman and you can definitively state all of this because....?

Edit: this isn't supposed to be a jab at you, rather I am simply questioning the declarative nature of your post. Either you have details that we don't, in which case please do share, or you are speculating like the rest of us.

 

I like that idea.... would line up perfect with a quote from Driver way back regarding it being about family and something about not being loved enough

 

I had the same thoughts @Luuke22... @Batman does seem to be stating this as something they know as opposed to being something they think... not that I disagree with it, and have had the same thoughts of Kylo being propped up as the token force wielder to place fear in the regional governors with the absence of Vade

 

dude, you nailed it. this pretty much summarizes how i'm seeing this movie play out. this story takes place during dark times; people are scared and ignorant and tired. lord knows they probably don't have a clue about all the intrigue surrounding the Jedi, Sith, and Imperial take over.

i like the idea of Arthur coming to bring the clans together, although in this case it'd almost be an anti-Arthur, huh? using the icon of Vader could be an effective way of putting yourself on a pedestal, especially if you follow along with the idea that people are generally ignorant of the intricate power game that went on 30+ years ago.

all this talk of Arthur makes me wonder where Lancelot and Guinevere fit in...