1. Due to the increased amount of spam bots on the forum, we are strengthening our defenses. You may experience a CAPTCHA challenge from time to time.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Notification emails are working properly again. Please check your email spam folder and if you see any emails from the Cantina there, make sure to mark them as "Not Spam". This will help a lot to whitelist the emails and to stop them going to spam.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. IMPORTANT! To be able to create new threads and rate posts, you need to have at least 30 posts in The Cantina.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Before posting a new thread, check the list with similar threads that will appear when you start typing the thread's title.
    Dismiss Notice

SPOILER Jelena’s Review of Aftermath: Life Debt by Chuck Wendig

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Books & Comics + Legends' started by LadyMusashi, Jul 12, 2016.

  1. Boushhdisguise

    Boushhdisguise Jedi General

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2016
    Posts:
    1,416
    Likes Received:
    22,168
    Trophy Points:
    148,617
    Credits:
    16,912
    Ratings:
    +24,667 / 20 / -3
    Although there were a lot of great stories in the EU the OT characters got kind of hokey in them.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  2. PrincessLeiaCB3

    PrincessLeiaCB3 The Princess that was Promised
    1030th Commander *** (Mod)

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2015
    Posts:
    3,745
    Likes Received:
    31,547
    Trophy Points:
    156,967
    Credits:
    36,947
    Ratings:
    +35,898 / 27 / -11
    Lol don't get me started on stuff like "The Courtship of Princess Leia". Too sugary in some instances for my taste lol. Definitely liking the new canon character development so far.
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
  3. Boushhdisguise

    Boushhdisguise Jedi General

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2016
    Posts:
    1,416
    Likes Received:
    22,168
    Trophy Points:
    148,617
    Credits:
    16,912
    Ratings:
    +24,667 / 20 / -3
    I always thought Han was the hokey-est in those novels. I really liked the Empire and Rebellion two that came out prior to Lucasfilm getting bought by Disney. Maybe because it was the era where we knew the characters, or they were moving towards something else, I don't know? They seem like they could even fit into whatever is taken as canon now. I think that Heir to the Jedi was supposed to be third in that series, and it is now canon. When they got beyond the Rebellion era, Luke did get some cool powers, but it still didn't seem like the same people. I will say that Timothy Zahn is a good writer and that some of the other books are good, just that was my biggest beef with them. COPL was hard to take, but I liked the whole story with the Night Sisters story as far as that is concerned. It just seemed far fetched. Bringing it back to this book, the characters seem more true to themselves to me.
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Wise Wise x 1
  4. PrincessLeiaCB3

    PrincessLeiaCB3 The Princess that was Promised
    1030th Commander *** (Mod)

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2015
    Posts:
    3,745
    Likes Received:
    31,547
    Trophy Points:
    156,967
    Credits:
    36,947
    Ratings:
    +35,898 / 27 / -11
    Agree, I mean there are some stuff that is alright, but in some way the character development somehow felt sort of funky.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  5. sbs87

    sbs87 Lord of The Dark Arts

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2014
    Posts:
    2,218
    Likes Received:
    3,915
    Trophy Points:
    11,092
    Credits:
    9,044
    Ratings:
    +5,860 / 84 / -53
    I 100% agree. The new canon "outside media" meaning the stuff outside of the films has way better representations of the characters going on to me than the old EU stuff so far. Leia is exactly how I picture her being in these Aftermath novels and Han and Chewie seem just like they are in the films. Not that Leia, Han and Chewie aren't main characters but I can't wait to see what they do with Luke and Ben as a child. I think Rey and Snoke's backstories will be extremely creative as well. They kind of need to be because so much has already been done before.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  6. T WARD

    T WARD Rebel Commander

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2014
    Posts:
    123
    Likes Received:
    105
    Trophy Points:
    2,972
    Credits:
    1,003
    Ratings:
    +160 / 7 / -0
    I remember reading a quote saying boba fett identity would be stolen and used by someone else. This pretty much happens in this book. Can't remember who it is was but I'm sure they had something to do with Lucas film
     
    • Like Like x 2
  7. sbs87

    sbs87 Lord of The Dark Arts

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2014
    Posts:
    2,218
    Likes Received:
    3,915
    Trophy Points:
    11,092
    Credits:
    9,044
    Ratings:
    +5,860 / 84 / -53
    Cobb has his armor in Aftermath and Life Debt but he didn't steal Boba's identity. He identifies himself as Cobb.
     
    • Informative Informative x 3
  8. LadyMusashi

    LadyMusashi Archwizard Woo-Woo-in-Chief
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2015
    Posts:
    4,583
    Likes Received:
    37,170
    Trophy Points:
    161,027
    Credits:
    36,769
    Ratings:
    +44,812 / 45 / -17
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
  9. oldbert

    oldbert Guardian of Coffee Breaks

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2016
    Posts:
    1,011
    Likes Received:
    27,966
    Trophy Points:
    151,167
    Credits:
    8,199
    Ratings:
    +29,865 / 8 / -1
    Absolutly agree. We all see the beginning of little steps to a place nobody wants to live in all over Europe at the moment. Populists feed there followers with all kinds of escape goats (emmigrants, the EU, etc.) everywhere to achieve more and more power. Populists love people with fears to gain controll and the best of it is, that a lot of people follow them or vote them with the hope of getting back law and order until its too late... all this things happen just in front of our eyes and not only far far away. We have to ask ourself: How is it possible that the mechanism behind these developments always start quite same way?
     
    #129 oldbert, Jul 23, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2016
    • Like Like x 3
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
  10. Darth Malkovich

    Darth Malkovich Rebel General

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2015
    Posts:
    662
    Likes Received:
    1,094
    Trophy Points:
    4,892
    Credits:
    1,816
    Ratings:
    +1,915 / 41 / -24
    Have to say, loved the book, especially the second half. The last 30% (going by my kindle :D ) was IMO the most gripping bit of new canon writing yet. Loved how Han and Chewie were portrayed. Han was Han. Really Han. Believably Han. The humour was totally Star Wars and Wendig really knows how to build tension and write an action scene.

    But hey, rumours of old Crix's demise? An unfortunate end for a celebrated General.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  11. Corran Horn

    Corran Horn Clone Commander

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2015
    Posts:
    56
    Likes Received:
    180
    Trophy Points:
    417
    Credits:
    794
    Ratings:
    +294 / 2 / -0
    My first post on these forums was a review of Aftermath, so it seems fitting I return to review its sequel - I finished Life Debt last week and have had some time to digest all that happened and compartmentalize my thoughts.

    As was the case with the first novel, a few key things stood out to me; the first being Wendig's prose, which honestly took me about 50-100 pages to get used to again. While I appreciate his snappy pacing, it's a bit of an odd style (3rd person present tense), and it's definitely a departure from most of what I read. The other similarity to my take on the first novel is that I came away from Life Debt feeling that Wendig had succeeded in several major ways, and stumbled in a few others.

    I'll start with the stumbling blocks, as they are relatively outnumbered by my positive takeaways. While the character of Temmin/Snap has improved somewhat from the first novel (where I found him one of the least enjoyable protagonists I have had to endure - and I read Cersei's POV chapters in A Song of Ice and Fire - I believe that by the age Temmin is, you can start to see signs of the person he is going to grow into. Given that we have seen that person in TFA, this book had be a bit puzzled, as he frequently yearned for the criminal mob-boss style life he had lead on Akiva. Hardly the makings of the heroic Resistance Pilot we met in TFA, so his development curve was a bit curious to me. Still, there were some signs of growth and maturation, but not quite enough headed in the direction of where we know he will end up.

    I was also rather disappointed in the character arc for Jas. To me, she basically re-tread the same ground she covered in the first book, which is to say she is a Bounty Hunter more purely driven by financial gain and selfishness, who periodically gets pulled toward the team dynamic that "the Wexley gang" has fostered. There wasn't really any new or exciting ground covered for her, as there was with several of the other characters.

    And lastly is Mister Bones. In my review of Aftermath, I had labelled him a "hilarious piece of Deus Ex machina" and this holds true still. His discovery of Temmin late in the book had me slapping my forehead with my palm. It seems that if there is ever a situation where all is (and should) be relatively lost, Bones shows up as a lame trump card to re-balance the sabaac cards. While some of his antics were admittedly humorous, I feel as though the stories would be and feel more perilous if he weren't always lurking in the periphery of the goings on. Plus, his construction (by Temmin) still irritates me greatly, as I think it detracts from the accomplishments of some other storied characters in the SW Universe.

    But that's largely it as far as complaints - I found the rest of the book to be a thoroughly engaging, engrossing page turner. I think the characters that I was the most invested in were Admiral Rae Sloane, and Sinjir Rath Velus, both of him benefited from the strongest character development. Faced with some impossible decisions, we saw Sloan err in some very significant ways - namely putting any trust whatsoever in Gallius Rax. There's clearly a long-game being played with that character, but I would have been very interested to see Sloane actually execute a coup detat - take a page out of Rax's book and execute him, taking his place as the grand fleet admiral. Rax clearly had no qualms about dispatching various members of his hierarchy and fleet, so I would have found it very compelling if Sloane had turned the tables on him. But nonetheless, her devotion to the Empire and desire to see it rise again played straight into Rax's hands and left her in one hell of a pickle, that I was still quite pleased to see her work her way through. Her showdown with Norra was one of the highest points of the novel for me - "girl power" has arrived in full force in the Star Wars Universe, and seeing these two alpha females throw down was exceptional. Her story was easily the one I was left the most hungering for me when the novel came to a close.

    Sinjir may not have had the most story development, but I feel he had the most character development - namely in that I think he has discovered he is a person who wants to do good things, but he has realized his talents lie in doing bad things to get good outcomes. I would liken him to Jack Bauer from "24" - the ends very much justify the means in Sinjir's case, and he is now acutely aware of that. I don't think that will ultimately lead him to a good place, as I get the distinct feeling that one or more of these characters will bite the bullet in Empire's End, and I would rank Sinjir highly on that list. He's compelling in that he will truly do whatever is necessary to secure victory, but what is necessary can be downright scary. And I want to see it.

    Norra was on a roller coaster ride in this novel, and largely served as "the mother hen" of the group. As I stated above, my biggest highlight was her clash with Sloane, and seeing that Norra has now made this a personal vendetta adds an extra layer of intrigue to how Empire's End will resolve itself. I dearly hope we get a rematch, as I think that will be a throwdown for the ages. I did see the twist with regards to Brentin coming from a long ways off (although it did leave me with questions, such as, how is it that Brentin and Co. were turned into sleepers, whereas Chewbacca, who had been captured in the same facility, had not?), and I was left hoping someone would make the comparison between what happened with these rescued POWs and what happened with the Clones in the Clone Wars (circa Order 66). We know thanks to TV's Rebels that some of the Clones came to realize they'd had chips installed in their brains and been brainwashed, and seeing the Empire use this dirty trick again should have set off some alarm bells for some people.

    I have to admit, I had to remind myself who Jom was when I began reading. His character was forgettable in the first novel, and other than losing an eye (bold move, Cotton) he didn't really add a tremendous deal to the story. I gather he was supposed to be something of a beloved oaf, but I didn't find him particularly compelling.

    What was compelling, however, was watching the structure of the New Republic at play. The marginalization of Han and Leia by Mon Mothma certainly adds clarity to why things are the way they are when The Force Awakens opens (I have not yet read Bloodline, however). It also gives a pretty stark look at what life was like in the Old Republic - the Empire essentially rose to power in the shell of the Republic because Palpatine was able to convince people that the way the old machinations worked was not efficient, and that a dictatorship with him at the head was better. And Mon Mothma's first moves as Chancellor are to essentially reinstate the exact old machine that had lead to that in the first place, shutting out the voices of those who may have better ideas - such as Leia and Ackbar, two of the biggest reasons she is at the helm of a New Republic - in the process. It was poor decision after poor decision for Mon Mothma here, and she badly earned my ire.

    But man, is the galaxy big enough to truly encompass the cahones of Admiral Ackbar? One of the other highlights of the novel was when he came to Leia and Han's aide at Kashyyk. In the old EU, I had never really felt like any of the authors who wrote him made him a very compelling character; ditto for Mon Mothma. But here, Wendig dialled it up to 11 and gave Ackbar some real meat to work with, and the results were very rewarding. Ditto for Mon Mothma, just on the other side of the coin. She antagonized the heck out of me, while Ackbar gave me some big fist bumbs.

    Which finally brings me to Leia and Han. I don't know that Wendig truly grasped the bones of Han's character, but he really had Leia down pat from where I stood. I loved the slow burn he played with her growing antipathy with the New Republic, culminating in her basically flipping everyone the bird and deciding to take matters into her own hands. Han had moments where it felt like I was hearing Harrison Ford's voice, or seeing a rascally plan unfold, but mixed in was also perhaps a dash too much of "idiot Han" that we saw in Return of the Jedi, whereas I always felt the more cunning Han that we saw in A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back (and The Force Awakens, as well) was the truer version of the characters. What I really felt Wendig got right, though, was his partnership with Chewie. Although it brings to mind again one of my very few criticisms of The Force Awakens, in that Leia did not hug Chewie after the finale, but rather Rey. Bizarre.

    All in all, I feel Life Debt matches Claudia Gray's "Lost Stars" as my favorite of the new canon novels thus far. It was a bracing adventure filled with largely memorable characters that left me yearning for more when I turned the last page. I have already pre-ordered Empire's End, and I sincerely hope that the publication date doesn't get pushed back as it did with Life Debt.

    8/10 overall.
     
    • Great Post Great Post x 4
  12. LadyMusashi

    LadyMusashi Archwizard Woo-Woo-in-Chief
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2015
    Posts:
    4,583
    Likes Received:
    37,170
    Trophy Points:
    161,027
    Credits:
    36,769
    Ratings:
    +44,812 / 45 / -17
    You will be happy to know that Wendig already delivered the first draft at the time of Life Debt release, which left almost seven months for editing. I think we'll have it in time. :)
     
    • Like Like x 3
  13. Choose Light

    Choose Light Mando Maven and Brown Eyes Backer

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2016
    Posts:
    2,097
    Likes Received:
    37,730
    Trophy Points:
    161,667
    Credits:
    26,720
    Ratings:
    +40,658 / 13 / -2
    I finally finished Aftermath: Life Debt...I started so late I got a used hardback. :rolleyes: But at least I read it!

    I haven't read the first Aftermath, so the style was pretty jarring for me. It took me about 1/3 of the way into the book until I was finally able to get past the present tense (did you see what I did there) and start enjoying the actual story. Yes, I enjoyed it, almost in spite of it. The interludes were kind of bizarre to me--sort of disorienting, because I kept trying to figure out how they were tying into the main plot and then forgetting where I was and what was going on in the main plot. I'm sorry to say it took me nearly until the end to realize the interludes weren't going to tie in (or at least not yet). I'm all for world building, but what the heck? (I did kinda like the bit about the proto-KOR/Acolytes of Beyond or whatever they were.) The one with the zhe pirate just seemed like showing off, and made me very annoyed with Chuck Wendig. (Am I wrong that beings with non-binary gender are kind of new to SW? That's what I was assuming the pirate was--like Star Trek has had for decades--so it seemed silly. But that's just me and I'll admit I haven't read many SW novels.)

    Another thing that annoyed me about Wendig is that I felt he was trying too hard to make me like Sinjir, and I hate being manipulated, so I resisted for about half the book. Then I gave in and just liked the character, darn it. I really empathized with his struggle of wanting to do significant good, despite being so good at being bad (hmm... that made sense in my head...). Though strangely, I didn't like Jas that much, even though she had a similar struggle. :confused:

    I wasn't crazy about the characterizations of Han, Leia, and Chewy. I liked the part with Leia and unborn Ben (that's what convinced me to read the book at all), but I was annoyed with Leia until she finally up and took matters into her own hands. That's more like it. Han seemed...not very smart sometimes. I liked Sloane--and here's a really good thing about the book--she made me understand the good points of the order of the Empire in a way I never did from Casterfo in Bloodline. (Note: This does not mean I like the Empire or think it's good, just that I can understand the Imperial perspective of pride in order now, without agreeing with it.)

    Anyway, I liked Norra and Snap (so glad he grew up for TFA!) and the ending, even though it was like "Here's what you've been waiting for! Buy my next book to actually see it!" But I'm used to that now, thanks. (I'm looking at you, TFA. :p) This isn't the sort of book I will ever read again (unlike Bloodline), but I did enjoy the story and dangnabbit, Chewy and Han!! Stop making me cry already!
     
    #133 Choose Light, Aug 5, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2016
    • Like Like x 2
  14. PrincessLeiaCB3

    PrincessLeiaCB3 The Princess that was Promised
    1030th Commander *** (Mod)

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2015
    Posts:
    3,745
    Likes Received:
    31,547
    Trophy Points:
    156,967
    Credits:
    36,947
    Ratings:
    +35,898 / 27 / -11
    Exactly! From her backstory, one can sort of understand why she holds the Empire in high esteem. With Casterfo, that connection is not that clear: his home planet was oppressed by the Empire, he suffered at the hands of the Empire, and yet he considers the Empire a good government system. With Cienna Ree might be as well in "Lost Stars" but in her case it could be understood from the point of view of the way she was raised to be devoted to duty, even if she has grown discouraged with the Empire.

    In the most recent comic issue of Star Wars, there is this character (the Gamemaster) who was a undercover Stormtrooper and his backstory is similar to Sloane's.

    I had several parts previously where I would be fighting the tears, but at that point it was impossible. Especially when Han thinks of going back to that Mos Eisley cantina and pick another farm kid... oh the feels.
    --- Double Post Merged, Aug 5, 2016, Original Post Date: Aug 5, 2016 ---
    BTW, there is this really good post about Rae and Leia in Life Debt:

    http://eleven-thirtyeight.com/2016/...oaneleia-organa-and-the-future-of-the-galaxy/
     
    • Like Like x 2
  15. LadyMusashi

    LadyMusashi Archwizard Woo-Woo-in-Chief
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2015
    Posts:
    4,583
    Likes Received:
    37,170
    Trophy Points:
    161,027
    Credits:
    36,769
    Ratings:
    +44,812 / 45 / -17
    Because you haven't read Aftermath, you couldn't see how some interludes are connected to each other creating essentially on-going mini-stories, some of which will (I think) even tie-in with the last novel and are tying in with a wider SW mythology, especially Acolytes of the Beyond, Nor you could see how the core characters have grown from the first novel.

    As for Han, Lawrence Kasdan said it the best: he is clever, but not very smart, which, I feel, was on-point in Life Debt.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  16. Choose Light

    Choose Light Mando Maven and Brown Eyes Backer

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2016
    Posts:
    2,097
    Likes Received:
    37,730
    Trophy Points:
    161,667
    Credits:
    26,720
    Ratings:
    +40,658 / 13 / -2
    Yes, I was hoping the interludes were building up to something--as you said, hopefully they will culminate in the last novel and we can connect the dots.
    --- Double Post Merged, Aug 5, 2016, Original Post Date: Aug 5, 2016 ---
    Thanks for that link. Good compare/contrast work there. I really liked the conflict in the book between Mon Mothma and Leia, exemplifying the ideal vs. the practical. I wanted to smack Mon Mothma upside the head while at the same time I understood exactly what she was trying to do and admiring her for it.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  17. PrincessLeiaCB3

    PrincessLeiaCB3 The Princess that was Promised
    1030th Commander *** (Mod)

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2015
    Posts:
    3,745
    Likes Received:
    31,547
    Trophy Points:
    156,967
    Credits:
    36,947
    Ratings:
    +35,898 / 27 / -11
    I know. When Leia says "I would burn down the galaxy if I thought it was right" (which was a really nice Vader's daughter moment) I waved my fist in the air lol.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  18. Choose Light

    Choose Light Mando Maven and Brown Eyes Backer

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2016
    Posts:
    2,097
    Likes Received:
    37,730
    Trophy Points:
    161,667
    Credits:
    26,720
    Ratings:
    +40,658 / 13 / -2
    You know, if I had read that line by Leia before TFA I wouldn't even have blinked because...Leia! Now that I know what her son has done, thinking he's right...I got chills. :eek:
     
    • Like Like x 2
  19. PrincessLeiaCB3

    PrincessLeiaCB3 The Princess that was Promised
    1030th Commander *** (Mod)

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2015
    Posts:
    3,745
    Likes Received:
    31,547
    Trophy Points:
    156,967
    Credits:
    36,947
    Ratings:
    +35,898 / 27 / -11
    Agree. And I reckon after watching TFA some people would think "why you care after all they go through later on?" But I guess that is the beauty of this story as a whole: we know our heroes have their good and bad times, and maybe their momentary happiness will not last forever, but for that specific moment, it is a really poignant and endearing feeling of accomplishment and enjoyment. I guess Wendig summarizes this feeling on that part of the book where it says:

     
    #139 PrincessLeiaCB3, Aug 5, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2016
    • Like Like x 1
    • Wise Wise x 1
  20. Choose Light

    Choose Light Mando Maven and Brown Eyes Backer

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2016
    Posts:
    2,097
    Likes Received:
    37,730
    Trophy Points:
    161,667
    Credits:
    26,720
    Ratings:
    +40,658 / 13 / -2
    Absolutely! Let her enjoy having her scoundrel back and dreaming about (and communing with) her little fighter angel bandit. :D
     
    • Like Like x 2
Loading...

Share This Page