Padme Amidala Observations

I definitely agree. There’s not much on-screen evidence for her being this benevolent ruler the movie wants us to think she is.

I feel like what we really needed for Padmé, in TPM, was an actual character arc.

I mean, It’s a substantial moment in the story when she reveals her identity to Boss Nass and humbles herself before him. But there’s no real indication that this is something she’d have been unwilling to do earlier in the movie if the purposes suited her aim. There’s no observable pridefulness in her position or resentment toward the Gungans as a people that this gesture surmounts.

So, build that out more. Show her evolve into the leader who, asking for help from these people, would be a major hurdle and confirmation of growth.

 

The Queen of the Naboo shared a planet with Jar Jar's species and was hoity toity enough to ask him if he was Gungan. She treated him like a second class citizen. She also talked down to Qui Gon on Boonta Eve, but I digress.



Bending the knee later on, was a sign she learned something while running around with those Jedai.

 

All that really communicates is that she’d never actual met a Gungan before. There’s no classist underpinning to that interaction. Just naivete.

How so?

Well, yeah. This guy, who she doesn’t know and has no reason to trust, is betting the fate of her entire planet on some random kid winning a race when he’s never even managed to finish one before. Gotta say, I’d be pretty perturbed and uppity with that dude too.

I agree that’s definitely what the scene is ‘supposed’ to convey. But do we really think that, if this situation had presented itself at the start of the movie, she would have refused? She would have been unwilling to bend that knee and plead with the Gungans to help save her people? I’ve certainly never gotten that impression.

 

The Queen of the Naboo was a well educated, elitist.... I found her snobbish and very condescending at the beginning.

I doubt that version of Padme would have bent the knee for anyone.

And that's what makes SW great.

 

Interesting. I honestly get no strong read on that character one way or the other at the top. She’s a stoic personality void to me. And for a lot of it, it’s not even Padmé, but her double, Sabé. Which is weirdly convoluted with respect to internal character motivation.

I love that different people can see the same story and come back with different impressions. That’s endlessly fascinating to me

 

Stoicism is the hallmark of a wise and noble leader, everyone else is just faking the front.

 

I actually think that Padme is one of the pieces of the Prequel era that was actually conceived and executed well throughout the course of the three movies, and then through subsequent material, her character and story have been polished very well.

Fair, but we are led to believe she is loved and respected by her people. The fact that the Separatists target her specifically is also key to building that narrative. Sometimes you gotta trust the narrative.

That would have been great. But that wasn't really what TPM was about. Her participation in the story was her arc and any more complexity to TPM would have only muddied the waters more.

I always took that as her arc in the movie. Even though she was beloved, and smart, and strong, she had much to learn and she was more able to see this after the events of TPM, making her an even better Queen and later Senator. By defeating the blockade, unifying with the Gungans and repelling the invasion, she not only met the expectations of her people, she exceeded them, therefore cementing herself as a Hero in the hearts and minds of not only her people, but others galaxy-wide. Think of her as a GFFA Volodomir Zelensky.

The opportunity to bend the knee and build that bridge came about in a time of danger. Who knows if either side would have been willing to patch things up outside of such a predicament. It didn't seem like the Gungans were restricted to underwater by anything but their own rules. There is a lot to be said about Padme and JarJar both being young and having no understanding around the transgressions in the past that caused the segregation, and therefore more insistent on working together. Again, a very real, very tangible real world issue. We don't really know what happened in the past, and there are assumptions that it must have been perpetrated by the "elitist Naboo". For all we know, the Gungan were the aggressors.

 

Padme is mine, is awesome, and all of you peasants are breathing her air just because she allows you to! Begone!!!

 

It ironic. My force powered Frankenstein is also the cringe face poster boy for tainted love.

 

Not sure I’m following you here. You mean the ‘narrative’ of the movie itself or the internal narrative within the universe? The story in AOTC isn’t that she’s targeted by the Separatists. It’s that she’s targeted by Nute Gunray, as condition of him joining the Separatists, as a matter of revenge for her beating him in TPM. The whole political intrigue was just a big red herring.

Or do you mean the optics of how it would appear to everyone else outside the situation? That gets us back to what I think @adamclark83 is speaking to. TPM asks us to make a lot of inferences to the people’s reception, based on what we’re told rather than actually shown.

And not just with Padmé. Like this line from Shmi after Anakin wins the race, “You have brought hope to those who have none.” We can make the assumption, through context, what she means by that statement. But that’s not really on-screen to be seen. We just have to take her word for it.

The crux of TPM is cooperation. Getting two different things to work together for a common cause - like symbionts. That’s underscored by first having them not working together, exploring why two parties would be at odds, and then having them resolve that division in triumph. The young audience sees that conflict resolution in action and stows that lesson away for their own future encounters.

The Padmé/JarJar relationship could have been the face of that concept in practice. That isn’t muddying the water. That kind of is the water. Y'know?

I feel that’s absolutely the intent. But I don’t think it comes off nearly as well as it could have if there’d been direct supportive evidence for those ideas. Show us. Don’t just tell us.

To be accurate, the blockade just mysteriously disappears by the third act. Nobody defeats it. It’s just inexplicably gone when they come back. Lucky break

What “people” though? That nameless throng throwing confetti at the end? They had their expectations exceeded? Sure. Alright. I mean, there’s no reason to think they didn’t, I guess.

Watching TPM the first time, I thought for sure the revelation was going to be Padmé recognizing that, what the Trade Fed was doing to them, wasn’t too far off from what the Naboo had done to the Gungans. Colonialism as a soft form invasion. “Oh, crap! Are WE the a**holes?” I’m truthfully still a little bummed that’s not where the story went. Meh, c'est la vie

 

You missed my favorite gif opportunity there:


Padme's personality was fleshed out in the Clone Wars. Shown to be very much for democracy.

While I have not read it, Queen's Peril gives some background to her political profile.

I vaguely remember Palps thought she would be easier to manipulate because of her age so he worked in the background to get her elected in Legends stories.

All I will say is that the people of Naboo tried to extend her rule beyond the norm. She must have been doing something right.

 

I'm referring to implied narrative that we the audience is led to interpret as the sentiment of the people of Naboo. Maybe my wires are crossed here, but I'm not referring to the assassination plot in AOTC, but IIRC, when Naboo is attacked, there was an implicit move to capture Padme, and that seemed like a tactic to use her as leverage. So maybe that's just my implied version of it, but to me, that would only be effective with a beloved ruler.

Yes, and I've never had a problem taking those leaps of faith, especially in TPM. Again, I am looking at this from a 1999 POV as best I can... Maybe it was a little easier to accept suggestions in SW at that time? I just didn't have any reason to distrust that Queen Amidala was both righteous and respected.

Right. Exactly. I meant that going into further exposition or another story arc just to "show" Padme's character in detail could have muddied the water. For all I feel about JJB, I have always thought that his relationship with Padme was very important symbolically as well as for the story.

I don't agree with this concept as it pertains to TPM. We have seen Naboo's adoration for Padme in later stories. I don't believe showing the work to prove why she was beloved by the Naboo would have served the movie.

Yes, but again, we are led to a presumption. I presumed that the blockade disappearing was related to them fighting back. I also would think if you asked any random citizen, they would credit their Queen with repelling the invaders.

Huh? What do you mean by 'what people'?

The Naboo were her people. Her subjects, constituents, whatever you would consider them. I would find it hella impressive if I had a Queen elected to rule and she ran head first, blaster out into a battle to defeat an invading army. That's usually what historically creates Heroes.

Again, we assume that, because we are led to do so. Just like we are led to believe she was deservedly adored by her people. They neither told nor showed us that the Gungans were oppressed or colonized by the Naboo... So, see? Not only do we NOT always need to be shown proof, sometimes we don't even need to be told. So from that angle, we can still have that moment of implied realization that you talk about. Maybe BOTH sides realized they were a$$holes for letting their division continue for so long.

 

Oh, sorry. You wrote “Separatists”. Which is AOTC, so I jumped to that. You’re talking about the Trade Federation in TPM. Gotcha.

There’s a pretty explicit tactic to capture her, yeah. But it’s so she’ll sign their “treaty” that (somehow) legalizes their forced military occupation there. But that would have been their strategy whether she was popular or not though. The leverage of the situation is the potential suffering of her people, which would compel her to comply with their demand.

If Amidala’s story is being driven by her empathy for her citizens, then I don’t think it’s too far afield to suggest there could have been a scene that highlighted her devotion to them. Something tangible and demonstrative rather than implied or theoretical.

It’s not really a Star Wars thing for me. It’s storytelling in general. I want to make an emotional connection with the characters in any story and experience the situations through their eyes. That’s hard for me to do when their perspective is largely conceptual. It’s not enough for me to be told a character is kind and caring (for example). I need it to be apparent in their actions for it to truly strike as genuine.

I feel that fantasy stories like this work best when they emanate from a core theme and each character operates as an extension of that theme. What they want, why they want it, how they’ll get it - they’re all extensions of that theme. So no individual’s person journey is ever extraneous, because it exists in order to bolster that central theme. Padmé’s arc IS the story’s arc then. They’re one in the same. It isn’t taking attention away to focus on her maturation. It’s reinforcement of the overall narrative.

Fair enough. Again, it’s about the emotional reality for me. When Padmé says “our people are dying”, I don’t only want to be intellectually aware of that concern. I want to feel it too. But I’m not going to feel it if I don’t believe it. And I’m not going to believe it if it isn’t more than a notion.

And I presumed George wasn’t sure how exactly to deal with the scenario he setup in the first act, so he wrote it out and figured no one would notice

Probably. They might also blame her for allowing the invasion to happen in the first place. Hard to say. We don’t get their perspective.

I mean the amorphous, abstract entity that is “the people”. We don’t meet any of them. They were supposedly “suffering” and “dying”, but we don’t see any of that. They’re just an idea in the movie. The people aren’t really treated as people. They’re this vague construct we’re supposed to care about, but have no real reason to other than Padmé caring about them. And she cares so much because . . . . . she’s queen?

Hey, maybe. Or maybe not. Maybe that collaboration was the product of a fleeting moment of desperate convenience and evaporated right after they tossed around that peace orb, because no one there actually learned a lesson. Maybe.

 

You are correct, sir. In retrospect I do think of them as the singular enemy of the PT and confuse the specifics. Tomato tomahto in my brain.

Again, I'm attempting to take this from a 1999 POV, but maybe my subconscious is including everything around Padme since then as well, but for me, I just never doubted her character.

So, full disclosure, I have a very complicated "relationship" with TPM. I saw it in the theatre several times. Far more times than any other SW movie. Read the novelization a few times... Now, I find it very difficult to watch in it's entirety. If pushed to assign a ranking, TPM is bottom of my list, so I find my vigorous defense of it here somewhat surprising myself. For what it's worth, my opinion today would be to scrap most of the podracing racket, and then, yes more backstory or exposition on Naboo could work. Instead of attempting to get laughs with JJB serving as a jester, give the character the weight he deserved. However, I think those viewpoints are somewhat cynical, and just weren't part of my POV yet, at that time, and particularly toward SW, or any movie, show, story...

To an extent I agree. However, my take was, and is this- Padme is a "secondary-main" character in the PT, even though she factors heavily into just about every arc in the trilogy. Just like Obi-Wan. Padme's character is far more fleshed out and shown than Obi-Wan's is. We are given virtually no evidence of who he is at all until the end of the movie. Now, fair enough, WE had seen him in ANH and knew he was a former great Jedi master. But... wait a minute. We were never "shown" that he was a valiant Jedi warrior, we were only "told" so.

This is a cold, hard analogy for the US as it exists today, but I'm gonna resist the urge to draw specific comparisons. From what we did see, most of the planet was celebrating and happy with the end results their Queen had achieved. Who knows, though, a few extremist nut-jobs may very well have violently stormed the palace and and attempted a coup.

I have to agree with your idea mostly here. I do also think some of the "suffering and dying" claims were representing political hyperbole. Naboo looked wealthy and well structured. I think if they wanted to emphasize that Queen Amidala was fighting for an oppressed and impoverished citizenry, we would have seen examples of this. Now, to me, this doesn't change anything regarding her righteousness, her people were being infringed upon, and it was her duty to stand up.

Firstly, Naboo and it's people as represented by Queen Amidala and her entourage, are shown to be perfectly decent and respectable. Secondly, they are being infringed upon by the clearly devious Trade Federation, which is established from the opening scene as the Bad Guys. Is it really that far of a stretch to feel empathy for Naboo because we don't have extensive insight? Did you think "well, maybe Alderaan had it coming"?

Maybe, but I don't think that's the case. It's virtually impossible to make a determination within the confines of TPM. However, we do know that JJB became a Senator representing Naboo, so that's an indicator that things stayed amicable. I can't remember off-hand if Naboo and the Gungans were ever revisited in TCW?

 

I reckon I was just being pedantic because I got me some thoughts on AOTC I’m itching to scratch, and was gently nudging in that direction. Ew ew ew, wanna talk about THIS

I don’t doubt the premise of the character. I just don’t buy the character as presented and never have. I’ve never been invested in her plight because I don’t feel for her in an immediate sense. I believe that having any sort of interaction between her and these people she cares so much about would have done a lot to improve that for me.

Practically everyone in TPM is a “secondary-main character” though. That’s the main disconnect for me. The principle story is about the invasion of this planet. So you’d think the perspective would be from the folks directly impacted by this. The people that live on that planet. But it’s not. But it’s also not really from the perspective of anyone else either.

Hard disagree there. Every single scene Obi-Wan has in ANH works to support his role as world-wizened mentor. He’s constantly using his earned life experience, as a “valiant Jedi warrior”, in order to resolve situations, move the plot, and impart knowledge to his pupil. We’re actually ‘told’ very little about the man. Our reception of him comes almost entirely through his demonstrated actions that we’re shown.

What?! A wrongly imprisoned populous was celebratory after their very recent liberation?!

Heck, I even heard a rumor that some disgruntled spice miners on the moons of Naboo had a serious bone to pick with her for some reason

Look, I’m not disagreeing with the reality that the story is presenting. I accept it academically. That’s the story. She’s universally beloved. Cool. It simply has no emotional resonance to me personally and so I don’t care. But I’m supposed to care. It’s the core to her motivation. It’s why she does the things she does.

Certainly, it was her ‘duty’. But that’s not why she’s standing up, yeah? It wasn’t the principle of the matter. It was her compassion for those who chose her to lead. She wanted to protect them. Not because it was her job to, but because she ‘truly deeply’ cared about them. Seeing that on display would have helped me connect to her, and her motivation, more.

OK. But I’m not sure what a well-mannered ruling class has to do with perceiving the people of this planet as some ill-defined monolithic mass.

Well, yeah. There’s a famous quote attributed to Jospeh Stalin. “A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths are a statistic.” There’s an innate human characteristic, a coping mechanism really, that distances us mentally from seeing a mass of people as actual people. Our brains just can’t fathom it. If you don’t do the work to humanize the masses, then that’s all they are - a singular, nondistinctive mass.

“Had it coming”? No. I never suggested anything like that. But do I have a hard time genuinely feeling the loss of Alderaan? Yes siree, I do. I can academically process it as a tragedy within the reality of the story. But I have absolutely zero emotional investment. It’s just a thing that happened. It’s a ‘statistic’.

That’s kind of my point though. If it had been personalized – made the micro story a reflection of the macro story – then we can extrapolate the immediate resolution as the broader resolution.

These individuals, who were at odds at the beginning of the story, would have become undeniable compatriots by the end, defined by mutual respect. And so have their two societies as an extension of their respective personal character growths. An authentic earned bond that would last past the current unifying threat.