An Intelligent and Respectful Discussion About The Positives and Negatives of the Prequels

Since my last thread about the prequels got locked (the plinkett one), I decided to start a new one. Hopefully this one will turn out better than the last. Now what I want is an intelligent and respectful conversation about the pros and cons of the prequels. Here is a list of things I would like each person to talk and base thier OPINION of whether they are good movies or not on.
-Acting
-Directing
-Special Effects
-Cinematography
-Plot (does it really make sense when you think about it?)
-Character Motavation
-Dialogue
-etc.
So for example, if you think the acting is good, explain why you think that. If you think the dialogue is bad, explain why you think that.
My personal list of pros and cons is unfortunately just cons (ok, maybe I'll put Ewan McGregor as a pro).



Remember... Keep. It. Classy. Keep. It. Respectful.

 

I believe you, I just thought I would post that into the mix of hates.

 

Bad:
Bland
Bad cast leading to wooden performances
No character depth or believability
Strange story arcs that really make no sense

Good:
I liked coruscant and the jedi temple
There was a little bit of fun in it

What I really wanted vs what I got:
Why obi-wan and vaders previous nature were friends - Obiwan as a padawan, rushed to knighthood to sheppard a pupil (whaaat? why? why is it so institutional? that was weird)
A story arc that was slowed down to help really see things clearly - rushed and superficial ministories that made no greater impact (come on... so instead of a real story we are given filler story?)
A purpose and strength to the jedi - squabbling and more sith enemies than I could poke a stick at while everyone acted surprised
Yoda to be very cool - yoda to lecture tediously

I personally think they should have created a strong Vader arc and constructed the story around that, and left politics in the ominous background.

Start with obiwan as a jedi knight, have anakin beside him, in a situation that is believably dangerous (not comical)
Create a strong sense of character in Vader, someone you like, someone you feel won't fall
Have obi-wan believe in him so much it blinds him
Have sidious become so powerful, that, it literally overwhelms and over powers Anakin, and maybe have obiwan get blasted by force lightning, and fall off a cliff leaving Anakin alone to lose.
Then obi-wan tries to turn him back, but in the end, because all jedi are lost, he retreats, and Vader becomes a pupil of evil.

I dunno, just anything thats TRUER to what you feel obiwan and his relationship is.

I wish it was deep, but it was just blank and superficial, even mildly annoying.
So it really was a missed opportunity imo

 

I'm guessing my thread got combined with this one or something?

 

Yeah there were three threads debating about the PT.

 

Ok, cool

 

In the late 1960s and early 1970s we saw the rise of the Boomer directors. The previous generation of Directors had given American audiences a stale slate of movies that were somewhat tiring musicals, romantic comedies, westerns and historical spectacles. A generational shift hit the late 1960s with movies like The Graduate, Bonnie and Clyde, Mean Streets, French Connection and other films that brought fresh ideas and new storytelling sensibilities to filmmaking. It wasn’t until the late seventies did what consider now “summer fare or popcorn” movies did the Boomer influence take over. Star Wars was the movie that helped bring that shift. Star Wars was an original blend of sci-fi/fantasy B-movie genre meets japanese samurai and spaghetti westerns plus a touch of WWII movies. George Lucas's great talent was his ability to blend different genres together. Same with Indiana Jones which was a blend of 30's/40's serial adventure genre with a James Bond type hero.

While these films were fresh and innovative in the late 1970's and early 1980's with hits like Star Wars, E.T., Indiana Jones, Back to the Future, and Gremlins. By the 1990's another generational shift was happening. The Boomer generation directors at least when it came to summer fare started creating more misses than hits. Movies like Batman and Robin, Godzilla (1998), The Avengers (1998), Small Soldiers, Wild Wild West, and Bicentennial Man started popping up. In 1999 the same year we saw The Matrix come to theaters and then soon after X-Men, the Lord of the Rings trilogy. By the time prequel saga was finished in 2005 we saw Batman Begins, Harry Potter series, and The Lion, Witch, and Wardrobe. The bar had been raised. But the prequels failed to meet the new standard.

Honestly, when the prequels came out they were middle of the road summer movies worth one or two viewings. They are decent films with good special effects and action. But those things don’t get us watching the films again and again through the years. The problem with the prequels that other films didn’t have is they are considered canon. A movie like Batman and Robin can be horrible and even end the Batman sequels. But we got the chance to see Nolan’s Batman a couple of years later. Washing away the badness of Batman and Robin. In his review for Batman Begins Roger Ebert wrote:

“I said this is the Batman movie I've been waiting for; more correctly, this is the movie I did not realize I was waiting for, because I didn't realize that more emphasis on story and character and less emphasis on high-tech action was just what was needed. The movie works dramatically in addition to being an entertainment. There's something to it.”​

In The Empire Strikes Back we get hints on the more emphasis on story and character, but the prequels never seem to regain that emphasis. But unlike Batman and Robin with its Bat nipples and horrible puns we cannot be Star Wars fans and just pretend they aren’t key parts of Star Wars universe. In other franchises take a bad turn, reboots eventually come around. This has happened with nearly every major franchise: Star Trek, Superman (twice), Batman, Spiderman, X-Men, Godzilla, Fantastic Four, James Bond (multiple), Planet of the Apes, and tv’s Battlestar Galactica.

But Star Wars hopefully will never have to go through a reboot. Yes, it kind of happened with the EU but not the feature films. This is why the need to constantly provide quality for the series. For the people who don’t like the prequels we realize an 8 year old Anakin yelling yippee! is just as much of Star Wars canon as Darth Vader mind choking an imperial officer. Hopefully, the trilogy will raise the bar. Giving those of us who have been complaining for the past decade a reason to celebrate our Star Wars love again.

 

Oh dear, what more can I say 14 pages in.... I enjoy the prequels, but of course I grew up with Han and Luke. I don't find myself reaching to watch the prequels anymore. I like a lot of things in there, but so many things bug the hell out of me now. This coming from someone who camped out for tickets in 1999 and saw the TPM multiple times in theater. I even remember asking my brother if he liked it and lying to him about liking when we left the theater at 2 am. I now have to be in a particular mood for these movies, but ROTS is the most tolerable.

Good:
Music
Ewan McGregor
Ian McDiarmid's performance in 86% of the trilogy
Concept of Darth Maul, Qui Gon, Plagueis, Sifo Dyas
The design -- this is were I agree with a lot of folks in regards to JJ and Disney avoiding diverting from the OT look. Again, I like the thoughts on continuity with design, but I hope they can match the prequels in that regard. Give us some cool new things, outside of Kylo's saber.

Bad
Too many to list. George had a lot of cool things, but not the right people to execute a vast majority of those things including acting, screen play, Jar Jar etc.


Here are things I wished happened:

-Better actor/actress choices

-Maintaining set and costume integrity/continuity. George explained the de-volution of design/look right? Related to the Empire's oppression?

-If the stories were told from Obi Wan's perspective as McGregor was the finer actor of the bunch (I know.. its about the Skywalkers). Anakin would be present, but would weave in and out of Obi's life allowing us to know, but not fully expose Anakin's background and keep the Vader lore alive and well.

-Anakin would have been Haydens age or older in ROTS for TPM. Dont ask me who I would have cast, but if you go with my above point, it could have been a competent nobody since Ewan would have been the main lead.

- A better reason for Anakin to turn to the darkside, c'mon we all were let down with what we got. Again, it should have been a slow burn turn with Palpatine showing him how powerful he could be with the darkside. It should have been love and a equal love of power that turned him fully.

-I always hoped Qui Gon. Sifo Dyas and Dooku (needed a better name) were going to be the leaders of the Federation which would have been a early version of the Rebels. People who believed the Republic was already dirty. A twist Obi Wan and Anakin would learn as they defeated/killed each master, making the fall of the Republic even more tragic. They killed the rogue Jedi who initally knew of Palpatines workings and planned for a coup.

My thoughts would require a lot of reworking of the stcript, but you get the jist.

 

Good:
- story
- visuals
- cinematography
- Ewan McGregor
- Ian McDirmiad
- subtle characterization
- portrayal of the Jedi Order
- most of the action scenes
- politics
- unexpected/unique story choices

Bad:
- Jar Jar
- Hayden and Natalie could be a lot better at line delivery (though I do defend Hayden's performance overall)
- Most of the third act of AOTC is painful to sit through
- Anakin's fall in ROTS is a bit abrupt and he's made out to be too much of a victim
- Chewbacca was shoehorned in there
- Artoo flying

 

I had no idea this thread existed so sorry I'm way late into the discussion.

I like the PT , but don't love it. There are things to like about it. I think it could have started out differently all together. Like Anakin being older. To me, little Anakin was backstory and did not need to be shown.

I do understand what GL was trying to do and it was to show his innocence. How he came to be Vader was very abrubt and quick. Yes Palpatine had been feeding him lies and things but everything after him kneeling before Palpatine went like a blur, including how he got the mask and suit. It was put on while he still had burns.

If it had only started out with him older itwould have made the climax of ROTS much better. Showing an older Anakin as a pilot would have been great. Then meets Padme, etc...but that is neither here nor there. It is what it is.

 

My turn

Good:
The space battles
Lightsaber duels

Bad:
The connection between the characters

 

I LOVE the prequels for two reasons:

1. They expanded the Star Wars universe in a big way.

2. John William's score. Not only is it good, but in my opinion, it is better than the OT soundtrack.

 

The little stands the figurines came with so they could actually stand up was great.

 

Hey guys I have always wanted to see the deleted scene of Obi Wan fighting Darth Maul in Tatooine. I don't know if someone have seen it. But this is something that I'm looking for since I was a 10 year old kid. I'm gonna left the photo here, if someone have seen the scene please give me the link!!!:

 

If you didn't like Duel of the Fates and pod-racing, you should feel bad. Well paced, memorable, and just fun.

Still think the metaphors for political machinations were more ham-fisted and on the nose than even Star Trek's largesse.

 

You have to admit that Episode I is the movie of the PT that is more like the OT. That's why I think is the best one of the PT. Erase Jar Jar and you got an awesome movie.

 

As far as quality of the movie goes (Dialogue, acting, etc.), the OT is better. However, I enjoy the PT era more, as I find it more interesting than the OT era. The ideas and content introduced in the PT are better than the OT, in my opinion (with exceptions, such as AT-ATs, Executer-class SSDs, etc.).

 

I remembered when I saw Episode II and I thought OMG this Galaxy is HUGE and reminded me later KOTOR. So yeah the PT has this enormous Universe where you can imagine whatever you want. the OT you are stick with the narrative and the characters because the dialogue, the acting, etc. Where all this elements were much better.

 

Episode II definitely had the largest feeling galaxy of all the episodes which is why I have a soft spot for it. I totally see the KOTOR comparison. It's also the only episode to have a moment where there's no major war going on, i'd say it's the most artistic of the prequels, but Phantom Menace wins overall best prequel. Although the OT is far better, I do think there's something special about the prequels as a whole.