1. Due to the increased amount of spam bots on the forum, we are strengthening our defenses. You may experience a CAPTCHA challenge from time to time.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Notification emails are working properly again. Please check your email spam folder and if you see any emails from the Cantina there, make sure to mark them as "Not Spam". This will help a lot to whitelist the emails and to stop them going to spam.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. IMPORTANT! To be able to create new threads and rate posts, you need to have at least 30 posts in The Cantina.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Before posting a new thread, check the list with similar threads that will appear when you start typing the thread's title.
    Dismiss Notice

Is John Williams up to the task?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' started by Chairman Kaga, Mar 9, 2015.

  1. Chairman Kaga

    Chairman Kaga Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2014
    Posts:
    583
    Likes Received:
    1,130
    Trophy Points:
    7,477
    Credits:
    2,196
    Ratings:
    +1,882 / 67 / -6
    So I was listening to this week's Forcecast, which discussed the intricate awesomeness of Williams' scores for the OT. A good discussion. Then over the weekend, since my wife and oldest daughter were out of town, had the opportunity to watch the Indy Trilogy. And for fun, I watched Jaws and about half of Close Encounters.

    John Williams is a genius. The film themes he composed are, I think, some of the most resilient in music. As in, music as an all-encompassing term. Just just film scores. Music.

    But I'd be lying if I wasn't a little worried that maybe he's too far beyond his prime to return the epic score this film needs. Star Wars is more than the sum of its parts. That's why it's so great, because its component parts are ALL amazing. The special effects. The sound effects (Ben Burtt is a GOD). The costuming. The score. A great film is like a Formula 1 car - every single piece down to the tiniest screw has to be perfection. In film, each component has to be spectacular in order for the film to transcend. That's sort of how all films work, regardless of genre. I don't think there's a truly great film that you have to make an excuse for something.

    Personally, I think the scores for the PT were a significant reason people didn't love them as much as the OT (although, certainly not THE reason). Granted, I've only seen those films a fraction of the number of times I've watched the OT, but the only music that truly stands out as being unforgettably awesome is Duel of the Fates from Episode I. If the scores had been better, would people have fonder perspectives on the PT? And were the scores not as great because the films themselves weren't as good?

    Maybe. But in recent years, the only music from Williams that comes to mind as especially memorable is the Harry Potter theme. His work with Spielberg has also been good. Saving Private Ryan comes to mind, mainly that plaintive trumpet solo from the beginning sequence. Minority Report had a cool score. I can't hum any of the themes, but I've only seen it a few times. To my sensibilities, the last truly great score he composed was Jurassic Park. Which was 22 years ago.

    This isn't meant to be a takedown of John Williams or an attack on a film that NO ONE HAS SEEN. Like I said, I consider him one of the great composers of all-time. Full stop. No caveats or disclaimers. I also of course get the desire to have some thread of continuity that clearly bridges all of the films. But I also do think his best work is behind him, regardless of his legacy, and that if they're bringing in all of this young blood and fresh ideas for the new films, why not also do so with the score? Will this be the real of the spinoff films?

    Whatever your opinion, I'd love to discuss John Williams, and his significance to cinema and symphonic music.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Clouded Clouded x 2
  2. ChillySCR

    ChillySCR Rebelscum

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2015
    Posts:
    113
    Likes Received:
    202
    Trophy Points:
    732
    Credits:
    918
    Ratings:
    +370 / 8 / -2
    I'm not sure Williams is at all to blame for the weakness of the prequels... if anything his score was the best part, Duel of Fates as you mentioned but also episode 3 had "Anakin's Betrayal" .. which personally was one of my favourite themes in the entire star wars saga... ranking up there with "final duel" from ROTJ.

    I personally think Williams will absolutely smash this film.. and his score will be as great as all the others if not better.
    The man is a genius.

    The prequels were bad because Lucas was directing. and Lucas can't direct.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Wise Wise x 3
  3. HarryShoulders

    HarryShoulders Rebel General

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2014
    Posts:
    420
    Likes Received:
    527
    Trophy Points:
    4,402
    Credits:
    1,475
    Ratings:
    +872 / 36 / -13
    Well, I enjoyed most of PT scores, however Williams writes to what is on screen better than most - almost too well. The more mature quality of the OT writing/directing was reflected in the music. It's hard to compose something as good as the OT when Jar Jar is in the background. If JJ keeps things at a level that does not talk down to the audience, it will reflect in his score. I absolutely think he is up to the task compared to the composers we have to choose from. The trailer buildup was a couple of notes and was cooler than most movie scores today. I am worried about the next 2 due to his age, but if he keeps Giacchino and Desplat close as protégés, we'll be ok.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  4. Darth Ameeran

    Darth Ameeran Rebelscum

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2014
    Posts:
    122
    Likes Received:
    227
    Trophy Points:
    842
    Credits:
    799
    Ratings:
    +538 / 12 / -2
    Duel of the Fates + Battle of the heroes are two of the best SW compositions ever made. I have no fear whatsoever with Williams conducting TFA.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  5. sbs87

    sbs87 Lord of The Dark Arts

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2014
    Posts:
    2,218
    Likes Received:
    3,915
    Trophy Points:
    11,092
    Credits:
    9,044
    Ratings:
    +5,860 / 84 / -53
    John Williams is a living legend. His previous SW work and his new work will be completely amazing in TFA.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  6. Maximus

    Maximus Reel 2 Dialogue 2

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2014
    Posts:
    3,223
    Likes Received:
    72,455
    Trophy Points:
    171,705
    Credits:
    23,801
    Ratings:
    +78,248 / 26 / -13
    a fair question to ask @Chairman Kaga

    i have so many doubts about what we know about ep7... some days i doubt that we've got the episode number correct.

    what i do know.. JW will create magic once more ;)
     
    • Like Like x 2
  7. Chairman Kaga

    Chairman Kaga Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2014
    Posts:
    583
    Likes Received:
    1,130
    Trophy Points:
    7,477
    Credits:
    2,196
    Ratings:
    +1,882 / 67 / -6
    OK, so the somewhat dissonant choral buildup and the BLAT were badass. Reminded me abit of 2001. I also LOOOOVE the second low brass BLAT when Kylo appears on screen. So ominous. Sort of Hans Zimmer, although I think in reality he's going for more of a heavy, Wagner-esque tone. I'm really hoping he relies on the low end of the orchestra. The last film score I truly adored was Howard Shores work on Lord of the Rings, which had a lot of great low end presence. I'm a bassist and trombonist by the way, which is why I favor low, heavy, rumbly tones.

    That's another score that helped elevate what was on the screen to a different level. The Fellowship of the Ring on opening day is still the best filmgoing experience of my life, mainly because I had no idea what I was going to see, even having read the book numerous times. So much of that film is the amazing music. The hobbit's theme, the main fellowship theme, the ringwraith's theme... all great music. In fact... (putting it on now - God bless iTunes match)
     
  8. RBanks

    RBanks Guest

    Credits:
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    I've always had the opinion that one of the best aspects of the Prequels was JW's PT Scores. Although I love the Prequels, I do think they had their flaws, but the brilliant musical scores helped to offset some of those flaws for me. This is just my personal opinion of course.

    Much of the score for the TFA Trailer was so subtle, and yet menacing at the same time. It also imparts a palpable sense of urgency. And the notes that were hit when the Kylo Ren scene in the forest appears onscreen, were genuinely spooky. Great stuff.

    Possible future age related issues beyond anyone's control aside, I think John Williams is still the genius who's unforgettable scores we all know and love, and I'm confident that his upcoming TFA Score will be some of his best work ever.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  9. MarsPhoenix

    MarsPhoenix Sith Psychiatrist

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2014
    Posts:
    2,718
    Likes Received:
    3,993
    Trophy Points:
    15,547
    Credits:
    6,871
    Ratings:
    +8,275 / 90 / -75
    JW will not only be up to the task...

    Another masterpiece :)
     
    • Like Like x 3
  10. Duke Groundrunner

    Duke Groundrunner Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2014
    Posts:
    1,056
    Likes Received:
    2,578
    Trophy Points:
    8,884
    Credits:
    5,513
    Ratings:
    +3,508 / 67 / -30
    The Episode 1 soundtrack was on par the with original trilogy Episode 3 had some good ones and Episode 2 had the weakest overall.
    Kingdom Of The Crystal Skull' s music was ok, it had a few good tracks. I hope this new movie's music stands out instead of being a blend of Ot and Pt.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  11. sbs87

    sbs87 Lord of The Dark Arts

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2014
    Posts:
    2,218
    Likes Received:
    3,915
    Trophy Points:
    11,092
    Credits:
    9,044
    Ratings:
    +5,860 / 84 / -53
    I wonder if Kylo Ren gets his own new Iconic theme or if he gets the Imperial March? (assuming he's of the Empire)
     
    • Like Like x 4
  12. RBanks

    RBanks Guest

    Credits:
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    I really hope he does get his own theme.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  13. sbs87

    sbs87 Lord of The Dark Arts

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2014
    Posts:
    2,218
    Likes Received:
    3,915
    Trophy Points:
    11,092
    Credits:
    9,044
    Ratings:
    +5,860 / 84 / -53
    I can really see some awesome score going on while he is in the forest. :)
     
    • Like Like x 2
  14. Chairman Kaga

    Chairman Kaga Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2014
    Posts:
    583
    Likes Received:
    1,130
    Trophy Points:
    7,477
    Credits:
    2,196
    Ratings:
    +1,882 / 67 / -6
    Again, I'm predicting some really dramatic Wagner-esque weight to his theme. Lots of low blatting low brass.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  15. sbs87

    sbs87 Lord of The Dark Arts

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2014
    Posts:
    2,218
    Likes Received:
    3,915
    Trophy Points:
    11,092
    Credits:
    9,044
    Ratings:
    +5,860 / 84 / -53
    Absolutely! What I love about JW is not only does he get the tones right but his the melodies are Ridiculously infectious. It's not random Contra blaring Chris Nolan Inception style (not sure who scored that). It will be powerful and dark AND have a great melody.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  16. Chairman Kaga

    Chairman Kaga Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2014
    Posts:
    583
    Likes Received:
    1,130
    Trophy Points:
    7,477
    Credits:
    2,196
    Ratings:
    +1,882 / 67 / -6
    Hans Zimmer. He writes cool scores that really ramp up the mood, but the melodies and themes are missing. He's too new school. Too digital. At least for my tastes. I MUCh prefer Elfman's music for Burton's Batman than Zimmer's for Nolan's. Although I prefer Burton's Batman to Nolan's in general. The first one, at least.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. sbs87

    sbs87 Lord of The Dark Arts

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2014
    Posts:
    2,218
    Likes Received:
    3,915
    Trophy Points:
    11,092
    Credits:
    9,044
    Ratings:
    +5,860 / 84 / -53
    That's right! I forgot he did Inception. I agree I'm not a big fan. I prefer the Burton Batman movies all around over Nolan's as well.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Rieekan

    Rieekan SWNN Hawkeye
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2015
    Posts:
    5,225
    Likes Received:
    10,128
    Trophy Points:
    144,447
    Credits:
    9,489
    Ratings:
    +15,474 / 137 / -35
    I think Williams will deliver, just curious if he goes into a more modern direction but a guitar doesnt fit in that universe. Well its not necessary, fits perfectly as it is, and sometaimes you better stax true to the origins. At the moment really like the work of Ramin Djawadi. Great scores for Pacific Rim, Iron Man, Game of Thrones, quite epic.
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvV2r2DeuALi2RprU-J53EA
     
    #18 Rieekan, Mar 9, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2015
    • Like Like x 1
  19. MarsPhoenix

    MarsPhoenix Sith Psychiatrist

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2014
    Posts:
    2,718
    Likes Received:
    3,993
    Trophy Points:
    15,547
    Credits:
    6,871
    Ratings:
    +8,275 / 90 / -75
    I think if ONE thing is a SURE thing is that Williams will deliver :)

    I foresee a theme for Kylo, another for The Chrome army, one for BB-8, and something special for Rey.

    There is always a NEW MAJOR THEME, something EPIC attached to all Star Wars Episode.... it won't be different this time :)
     
    • Like Like x 2
  20. Rebo

    Rebo Nearsighted Whill Guardian
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2014
    Posts:
    2,500
    Likes Received:
    4,603
    Trophy Points:
    14,747
    Credits:
    6,145
    Ratings:
    +7,330 / 99 / -40
    The only problems with the PT scores were the source images and Ben Burtt and Lucas's meddling. The music written for the PT is some complex and beautiful work. Even throwaway scenes are exquisitely composed (See: Yoda and the Younglings or The Meadow Picnic).

    People tend to dismiss them because they don't have the attachment to the films in which they were initially hear. But I don't think WIlliams is to blame there he did what he could to elevate the films bit was fought at every turn. (See Burt turning off his great piece in the Arena battle or Lucas reusing the same Podrace track 5 times throughout the trilogy due to late editing.)

    I think Williams will be fine. Will it match the lightning in a bottle of the OT? Probably not. But that doesn't mean they won't be great scores.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Great Post Great Post x 2
Loading...

Share This Page