SPECULATION Possession

YOU WILL KILL LUKE SKYWALKER.

(Get it, The Last Command! But seriously, I thought it was kinda dumb in that book, and it wouldn't feel right in the movie. That's my opinion. Other people probably like the Thrawn trilogy. I dont.)

 

In episode III I think palpatine says "the power to cheat death is something only one has achieved" and I think he means that about darth plageuis in his attempt to seduce anakin to the dark side, not that he had the power to cheat death.

 

True, but i still don't believe he himself knew the power to cheat death. And can you really believe everything the guy says?

The exact quote is, " to cheat death is a power only one has achieved, but together I know we can discover it's secrets."
So unless he and anakin discover the power somewhere in between episodes 4-6, I doubt he survived.

 

Maybe they did though? Anakin does turn into a force ghost, and that is still a bit of a mystery on how he learned to do that.

 

There seem to be a few things that seem to support your idea:
1. The rumor that Driver receives dark visions creating an obsession to destroy force users/sensitives
2. Driver being related to Dooku. A family curse? Ok, I admit that is a nod to my unusual Dracula thread but I think it could still apply here.
3. The visions Anakin gets of Padme dying in child birth. I know there was speculation that Palpatine actually gave Anakin these visions because she did not actually die in child birth, but afterwards. Too picky or technical? Probably. Yet, if it was possession then it supports this theory.
4. The rumors that Palpatine is going to be in the next films, but Ian McDiarmid is not in the films. If he was a spirit possessing people then he could potentially be played by anyone.

So i think your idea has enough support to not be so easily dismissed. Good job

 

The way that I understand darkside possession is when you see Darth Sidious, Maul, or Anakin (as Vader before armor) having the red and yellow eyes, they are possessed by the darkside of the Force. I don't consider Dooku because he must have never fully gave himself, he just wanted knowledge that the Jedi did not give him. It is really the only way you can explain Anakin's attack on the Jedi Temple or on Padme and Obi-Wan on Mustafar. It seems that the darkside is pure evil, like Satan, and takes possession of those who willingly except it. Once that person dies it searches for a new host to possess and through the Force speaks to them in their mind, a lot like Luke in his X-wing in the battle of Yavin, hears Obi-Wan telling him to "use the force" or "let go". Whether this darkside incarnate was once Plagueis, who found a way to cheat death as some form of Force demon, or something much more ancient we don't know because of the canon reboot. I hope there is some kind of clue to this in 'The Lords of the Sith' novel next year.

 

I had never heard this theory about some dark side demon. It would be an interesting way to tie in the PT with the ST. It would also introduce Darth Plagueis without having to actually show him as a Muun, which would make several commentators here very happy. Nice thought, Ceruleanlord!

P.S. I noticed when I quoted your post that you are member "66" on the forum. Very ominous...

 

This is definitely an EU-friendly idea. The problem with it is that is that (unlike in the EU) Sith cannot live after death. They cling to life more aggressively than anything else in the galaxy (see Darths Vader and Maul) but once they're dead, they're dead. The best in-universe explanation for Anakin turning blue-glowy is that when the Chosen One dies from a selfless act, he doesn't require the training that Qui Gon, Yoda and Obi Wan do. The obvious logistical reason is that George likes ending movies with portrait shots and hadn't really thought about 'turning blue glowy' as a learned skill.

The ability to, "cheat death," is not to live on after dying but to not die when you're supposed to...another reason (partially from Darth Plagueis and partially from the Clone Wars) that the force itself demands the elimination of the Sith.

Now that being said, there were some rumors about the 'source' of Palpatine's power and some historical trotting around. I could easily see something like that corrupting people.

 

Good points made throughout your post. The real issue boils down to whether Palpatine was sincere about there being one who cheated death, or whether it was lipservice. If it was through possession of some sort (whether demonic or a version of reincarnation/incarnation) then that seems highly "unnatural," and falling into Sith methods.

With Anakin, yeah, Lucas probably never had any intention of describing how he turned into a Force Ghost. However, after the final episodes of the Clone Wars were released, and the production of the sequels began, he opened up that question. Whether the answer can be answered by a couple of lines of dialogue, or a more intricate plot remains to be seen. However, they may also choose not to acknowledge it, and assume we know that it is a power held by The Chosen One.

For the record, I don't think Palpatine is coming back. Nonetheless, I still think it is important to explore that possibility.

 

There is a short story in Star Wars Insider #130 by Mathew Stover titled "The Tenebrous Way". It talks about Tenebrous's efforts to cheat death. He bioengineered a variant of midi-chlorian capable of passing on his consciousness, and infects the body of Plagueis. But when he has a vision of Plagueis's death, he vacates the body. Being disembodied he relives his moment of deathand transference within the buried depths of Bal'demnic. I believe Bal'demnic is the planet they shot at Skellig Michael. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bal'demnic

 

Wow! Great find! LOTS of good stuff here, and I could definitely see how elements of this could be used. You might consider starting a thread on this because there is so much information to digest.

Just skimming through the Wookiepedia, here are some things that stand out immediately:

"Hawk-bats took shelter in crystalline caves often found just below the coastal rocky surface." Could this be the location of Luke training others in building lightsabers, as was rumored?

"The reptilian Kon'me were the only known sentient species native to Bal'demnic. " I believe that Lucas originally thought of Ewoks being some sort of Lizard men instead, and we know how he likes to recycle unused ideas

"After a brief exchange of words, Plagueis snapped his Master's neck. Tenebrous' remains would be undisturbed for decades, possibly centuries, after his death." You may have just uncovered our Ancient Fear.

There are a lot of different ways this story could play out, but I think you found a treasure trove of rumor speculation.

 

Possession, outside of The Exorcist, is (IMHO) the sign of a weak plot... there are just SO many ways to tempt someone to the dark side. And it is the sign of a true Sith master to be behind the scenes pulling all the strings to bring about the particular set of events that will push someone over the edge.

That's a plot worthy of a new movie, and one in the theme of the continuing saga

 

This is from the link that Joe12Hawk provided, and is a really cool read:

http://www.secrethistoryofstarwars.com/completehistoryofthesequeltrilogy.html

"Moral ambiguity and the necessity for choices in the name of good, Jedi knighthood, and the passing on of knowledge would play key roles in the sequels, according to Lucas' previously-quoted statements, and so perhaps Luke would wrestle with the dark side, exploring what it is, why his father fell and how he himself should avoid it--after all, he himself tasted it at the end of Jedi. This type of plot is similar to the Dark Empire comic, with Luke trying to destroy the dark side from within, which Lucas had some involvement with and apparently is quite fond of. With Luke taking on an apprentice, these issues would be all the more relevant. Those rebuilding the Republic would be faced with a legacy of failure and the task of not repeating the mistakes of the past, which indeed would give the trilogy a reflective and philosophical tone."

 

First, I DO believe that Plagueis did in fact learn the secret to immortality which is probably where the "Ancient Fear" rumor comes from. I suspect that it is essentially the plot to E7 -- someone has learned and has been taught the ancient fear or the ability to come back from the dead like Jedi. The ancient fear is that the Sith would eventually learn this ability.

Second, I don't think Sidious believed that his Master Plagueis knew this ability, but used it to seduce Anakin as was stated.

Lastly, I wouldn't be surprised if we see some combination of Plagueis and Sidious specters come back back to influence some new villain like the Jedi do. Note, I realize that this is supposedly NOT an ability the Sith could learn according to George, BUT IF this was a pivotal plot point for the ST which he wrote treatments for would he admit it? I think not.

 

Sith believe that when you die, you die... that's it. This is one of the reasons that they are unable to merge with the force and become force spirits. One of them who DOES figure this out would be "cheating death"

We tend to think about cheating death and immortality as continuing to live, but... that isn't necessarily what it means. It isn't like this was all common knowledge, the Jedi didn't even understand it until Qui Gon figured it out and passed it to Yoda, which could explain why Sidious told Anakin he could not learn the skill from a Jedi.