Together We Can Improve the Culture of Star Wars Fandom

I agree completely, people need to stop being jackasses but this:

Needs to apply to everyone. Sadly there is always a double standard. We can't say "stop being hateful bigots" and then turn around and scream "alt-right nazi" (or some other dumb phrase) just because someone happened to not like Rose or Holdo, or the movie on a whole. If the community is ever going to move on we need to address the extremes on both sides but sadly one of those extremes is accepted much more than the other. You go on sites like reddit and you see comments something like "Screw SJW's ruining Star Wars, Rose is just a dumb diversity hire" with massive down votes but then have the top comments being "Haha these stupid Alt-righters are probably so angry at ____. " or something similar insinuating that anyone who disagrees is a racist or some other "ist." We can't allow name calling and harassment on any side (even if we happen to agree with it.) Assumption and generalization seems to be one of the most dangerous things right now. I hate The Last Jedi with almost every fiber of my being, it was one of the worst experiences I ever had in the theater but I'd much rather have a discussion with someone who liked it than have a shouting match. And one final point: social media and nonstop sensationalized news makes everything worse because the people harassing and trolling are the ones who are given the spotlight and attention and after awhile of countless articles about "toxic fans" or "racist fans" etc, it seems like they are the vast majority which I don't believe is the case at all. I don't believe they even make up even a large minority.

 

@Finn is a Jedi
I wish I could like your post a hundred times.

 

Is it wrong to say "Stupid Alt-Righters are propably so angry that Finn is a main character"? Being that alt-Right is a white supremacist oriented belief set that isnt inaccurate. Now saying so and so you are a stupid member of the alt-right is wrong. I firmly believe if you use coded language that the alt-right or other groups use shouldnt be given the benefit of the doubt. I say over and over and over dont say Star Wars has a SJW agenda. Break it out if you dont like something and you consider it a SJW direction. Say what it is if it is same toxic reason you will get called out on it and you should.

 

When did alt-Right and SJW (Social Justice Warrior) became dirty words?
I agree that if you are toxic you should be called out for being toxic. But is it so hard not to label someone as extreme right or left (ism words) without fully understanding what those terms actually stand for?
And this quote "I say over and over and over dont say Star Wars has a SJW agenda. Break it out if you dont like something and you consider it a SJW direction."....
Is almost as ridiculous as saying the term Mary Sue is offensive.
I ask you, @KeithF1138 , do you consider yourself a Social Justice Warrior irl? If so, do you consider the term SJW offensive? If you are a SJW, shouldn't you be proud of calling yourself SJW? If you are not, why do you care about a term that does not apply to you?

 

I consider myself a liberal progressive.

SJW was originally a term for people who would get overly emotional about a social issue. It has been co-opted. Perfect example of what is was is the girl who famously balled about Britney Spears in a viral video. Not saying her cause was social justice, but the way she acted is where the term came from. It isnt someone that is fine with strong female leads, or diverse cast of actors. My point of the not using the term SJW is because in more cases then not the term is used in replace of things like the following:

Disney has a radical pro-feminist agenda. Instead people say Disney has an SJW agenda. I say if you want to say pro-feminist agenda dont hide behind the term SJW.

If you have some other issue with a Disney, LFL, Star Wars or a specific film then be specific. Dont use a term that has been co-opted.

Is alt-right a dirty word? I will say it yes. Alt-right embraces white supremacy.

 

I agree with the article and it’s drive to inject a bit more positivity into the fandom again.

I think it’s terrible that Kathleen Kennedy, John Boyega, Daisy Ridley, Rian Johnson, JJ Abrams and Kelly Marie Tran have all had to endure such hatred, racism and sexism AT ALL let alone over something so inconsequential in the greater scheme of things.

I simply can’t understand it. None of the new movies show any sign (to me at least) of being any kind of direct assault designed to undermine the existing Star Wars fanbase. I also don’t think any of the new movies are so ‘bad’ that anybody should feel so inclined to behave in such a despicable way towards any of the film makers.

Purely on the level of human decency such vitriolic attacks towards the actors, directors, producers, movie critics AND OTHER FANS are just disgusting. On a personal level, and I’m sure many other fans will agree, its also getting increasingly boring.

If this behaviour continues, most of the wider fanbase will go off Star Wars altogether. It won’t be because of the quality of output from Lucasfilm though. It will be due to toxic baggage that constantly surrounds it.

No more fanbase...no more Star Wars. Simple as that. That will probably be considered a win by the vocal minority. Nobody wins in reality.

 

tl;dr: Actors/Actresses should not be blamed/attacked because of bad script. Scriptwriters are the ones at fault. Even so, scriptwriters should not be attacked, but simply told about their bad work. Calmly, at least once.

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Can someone provide Kelly Tran's statement, something like "Yes, I deleted my instagram due to harassment. It's true."
Otherwise it's just speculation. (regarding why her instagram is gone, I'm 99 percent sure she was cyber bullied.)

Also, I can understand why actors/actresses should not be "attacked" simply because of a bad script. But directors? Script writers? "Story groups"?
Someone needs to tell script writers and directors (often the same person nowadays) their product had some problems. At least once or twice, right? I'm not saying you should stalk them, but at least someone should let them know about their "inferior" product.

Also, what do you call RJ's holding a sign that says your snoke theory sucks? 1. He does not even know about everyone's snoke theory. 2. As a director, shouldn't he be held to some sort of "higher standard?" I know it's kind of unfair, but still, Director should not label people like JJ did. What exactly is attacking your fanbase if RJ and JJ's behaviour was not?

Yes, the labelling and name calling should stop.

 

The problem with "let them know about the 'inferior' product" is, by what measure is it inferior? If a person doesn't like rock music, they can give you reasons why: it's too loud, tempo is too fast, don't like the voice of the singer, etc. Those are reasons why they don't like the music. But they're not reasons why the music is "inferior". Art is subjective, and there can't be an objective measuring to determine "superior" and "inferior" art. There is just, art, and our personal connect/disconnect with it.

When I hear people "critique" movies (since this is Star Wars let's go with the Last Jedi) their "reasons" for disliking the movie are always completely subjective, and so, irrelevant to the quality of the movie itself. In fact, I have seen a pretty equal amount of dislike and like for the movie. So if something doesn't work for you, but it works for someone else - do we cater to you at the expense of others? Are you the lawgiver of good and bad? Of what is superior and inferior? All of the criticism I've heard of the Last Jedi (as well as tons of movies) boils down to subjective likes and dislikes, and has nothing to do with the actual quality of the story or film.

I think that is a big problem, that a lot of people don't seem to be able to differentiate between "I liked/disliked that" and "That is a good/bad movie". I think the ego plays a big part in the problem, where a person likes or dislikes something, and then when they find people who feel the opposite, suddenly their ego is threatened. They think, this person is saying I'm wrong and so now I have to attack to prove I'm right. But the entire fight is an illusion, a confusion of subjective and objective. In the confusion comes misunderstanding, which creates the atmosphere of conflict. But it's all just an illusion driven by the ego which wishes to conform the world to itself, not able to comprehend the positive nature of difference.

A lot of people are quick to judge and fault people making movies for their dislike of the movie. But my question is, are we ever willing to examine the disgruntled audience to find fault there? Can the audience (or, a part of it) be that which is actually to "blame" for disliking a work of artistic expression. I mean, are we sure that we're not holding the eyeglass in reverse? Because truly every criticism I've heard of most films causes me to think "This is completely irrelevant subjective rhetoric, with no meaningful substance at all."

And if the "fault" does lay with audience misunderstandings, then all of this backlash against actors, producers, directors, etc. (to the point of virtually ruining real human beings' lives; people with real emotions) by the audience is, well, irony in its most horrific form.

 

Johnson was just being tongue-in-cheek about "your snoke theory sucks", which I believe was a sticker/sign Pablo Hidalgo had started using. It was a comment on how ridiculous the Snoke theorizing was getting. Snoke is Plagueis (yawn), Snoke is Palpatine (yawn), Snoke is Mace Windu (WTF?), Snoke is Anakin (WTF), Snoke is [insert-EU-character here]. It's ridiculous that he needs to read every Snoke theory--is such a thing even possible? He was commenting on the state of the speculation. He was also pretty correct. The Snoke theories were all on the level of grade-school-playground-debate, and I always knew the only answer that could be given that was vaguely interesting was that he was no one or that his origins would just be left to other media. Anyway, he was just making a harmless joke about it all. He wasn't bullying and harassing specific people in specific ways. It totally baffles me that people would think "he means my Snoke theory sucks" and that you are therefore a worthless person.

Sometimes it seems Star Wars fans are so sensitive of their precious fandom bubble it can be popped with anything that even feels like they aren't being catered to like a bunch of babies. I don't know what happened to create this new era of "the entitled fanboy", it's something that didn't largely exist ten or twelve years ago on this scale and level of toxicity, and I suspect it has to do with corporate media conglomerates co-opting the nerd subculture because they realized how much money there was to take from nerds if you simply spoon-fed them every wet dream they had, hence nerdy became cool in the late 2000s and childhood nostalgia became cool in the late 2000s and billions of dollars were exchanged in the process of this happening. Half the audience posting all this toxic crap are just kids themselves, and they don't even know anything different, they are just used to it and become outraged when they don't get what they want. The sad part is all the man-children playing along with them thinking this is all normal. That's why you see so much crap on Youtube being pushed by the audience there, all the comments and views and so forth. I've worked for Youtube and I can tell you that 90% of the audience watching and commenting and driving the metrics are 13-19 years old, a bunch of kids empowered with anonymity and fuelled by feelings of entitlement by the corporate entities who are trying to scam them out of money, which is why it can sustain grown adults who are so stunted that they act the same as that demographic, except those adults don't realize that all of those anonymous "peers" of theirs are just a bunch of immature kids. It's the same with places like 4Chan and most message boards out there. The vast majority are teenagers, and a bit of college students, but all the adults reading the messages think they are reading messages by grown, mature adults like them so it's like it gives them permission to act on that level.

Anyway, to me Last Jedi is the only example of a corporately owned mega-fandom that wasn't catering to its audience and not designed to sell toys and take fans money by promising them "that thing they always wanted", or worried about how it fit within the larger product matrix or if there was "enough of X,Y or Z to please A,B or C" that most Marvel movies are constructed with, it was an original work of art made by an auteur that challenged the characters within the story and thus the audience. It's interesting that the current SW trilogy is a trilogy essentially about the fandom, about the legacy of the OT, with TFA playing into the fandom and then TLJ playing against it, and I guess it's not surprising in that sense that it has so many elements that rub some the wrong way. I'll be glad once Episode IX is out so people have something else to bash.

 

First time poster . . . because I agree . . . and, the thing is, sometimes when we push against something, there is an equal force pushing back . . . powerful light, powerful darkness . . . so, what's the plan ?

 

A few days ago the official SW Instagram posted a Happy Birthday to Kathleen Kennedy. After seeing so many negative replies - even people wishing her an early grave - I decided to comment on that with the intention of it being a wake up call. Meaning, it's time the reasonable part of this fandom (and basically every fandom), should take back the upperhand. Within moments the likes and dislikes flew around like hot sandwiches with all the possible comments you can think of. Unfortunately, the post was deleted. Not because of those comments, but because it was the wrong day for the post.

It was only after this I found out that Kelly Marie Tran removed all her posts. Combined with Daisy Ridley deleting her account completely and other instances (George Lucas even commented on it this last Celebration), it really is time this crazyness is put to an end.


Anyhoo, the above isn't meant to put a feather up my own bantha hole, but I agree with the above article.
So, as @TpN asked, what is a constructive way to do something about this?

 

It's time for the silent majority to stand up in all facets of society, not just within the Star Wars fandom but it makes me very happy to read this post and see our own "Resistance" forming. We must resist, rebel and revolt against this toxic wave of bigotry, racism, sexism and general intolerance of people who are somehow different. And remember this very simple concept that has been preached throughout history in every culture and religion: Treat others as you wish to be treated.

 

Great post. When we went to Paris we visited the Louvre and went to see the Mona Lisa. Now I was never impressed by the Mona Lisa in the photos/reproductions I have seen, but do really like Da Vinci work. Thought maybe seeing it in person maybe I would be impressed. Nope. Was total meh to me. Now I cant say that the Mona Lisa is a bad painting. It is considered a master work. I dont particularly care for it, but no doubt about it it is a master piece.

 

I totally agree with this.

I've seen so many people on here try to dismiss one opinion (one way or the other) by claiming its subjectivity, while trying to pass their own off as objective.

It just doesn't work that way. Never will.

I accept that some people don't share my taste. Some people really dislike Return of the Jedi, for some reason. Some find Attack of the Clones to be among the best in the franchise. And that, to me, is really weird. But it's also totally out of my control.

I'll admit that this kind of thing does get to me sometimes, but I think it's important as fans that we all come together and realize that as fans, we all want what's best for the franchise. I can't fault anyone for posting in the "Thread for Those Who Hated the Movie", because honestly I mostly just feel sorry for them that they didn't enjoy it. That must really suck for them.

But when I see actual toxicity- people attacking actors/directors/writers, people celebrating Solo's low returns, people perpetuating a general negative vibe instead of offering up constructive criticism- that's what I still take issue with.

I'd like to ignore those kinds of people, but they're becoming so prevalent and outspoken that I think this issue does need to be addressed at this point. Respectfully, of course. And with love. A lot has been said lately about how these despicable people making attacks against KMT, KK, and Daisy should have learned their lessons from the Star Wars they supposedly loved about how not to hate- but those of us still in the fold need to not forget them as well.

 

Yeah, "the only right point of view" is a dangerous idea.

 

I totally agree with your article. There is a very small group of angry idiots out there that are screaming crap and need to grow up. I have been a Star Wars fan almost all my life (I was born in 1969 so I had to wait a few years) and I am completely disgusted by what is going on right now in the fan world. There are some yelling to boycott Solo just because TLJ didn't play exactly the very plot points they wanted. Now this racist crap against Kelly Marie Tran (which seems to be a continuation of the hate/blame against TLJ).
What I also don't like is turning this all into something political. I have seen many comments accusing these hate mongers of being conservatives, alt-right, or liberal left. That is not gaining anything and is kind of the same level as these "fans". Let's put the blame square where it needs to be placed. There is a small fraction of our human population now that feels the world MUST bow to their every wish and demand. If not, then they will throw temper tantrums on social media and threaten to set the world on fire (literally). They spew hate at everything and everyone until their demands are met to the letter. These are people are adults in age but not mentally. We live in a world where a 30 year old man called the cops on his father because he told his father stole one of his Lego pieces! Unfortunately the internet gives these morons a platform to act out their stupidity.

 

People need to start being a little bit tougher mentally on both sides. Stop being offended by every single thing someone says.

 

Great post, it´s sad what happens with a part of ``fandom´´´, if you don´t like, ok, but the hate it´s bizarre the way many shows around the web.