1. Due to the increased amount of spam bots on the forum, we are strengthening our defenses. You may experience a CAPTCHA challenge from time to time.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Notification emails are working properly again. Please check your email spam folder and if you see any emails from the Cantina there, make sure to mark them as "Not Spam". This will help a lot to whitelist the emails and to stop them going to spam.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. IMPORTANT! To be able to create new threads and rate posts, you need to have at least 30 posts in The Cantina.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Before posting a new thread, check the list with similar threads that will appear when you start typing the thread's title.
    Dismiss Notice

SPECULATION When Did Vader Know?

Discussion in 'Original Trilogy' started by adamclark83, Oct 31, 2017.

  1. adamclark83

    adamclark83 Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2014
    Posts:
    614
    Likes Received:
    730
    Trophy Points:
    6,787
    Credits:
    1,633
    Ratings:
    +1,113 / 39 / -16
    When Vader is taunting Luke in ROTJ, when did he realise that Luke had a sister and who it was? There was no hint or idea given before that moment.
     
    • Like Like x 5
    • Original Original x 1
  2. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2016
    Posts:
    4,504
    Likes Received:
    20,403
    Trophy Points:
    146,667
    Credits:
    18,639
    Ratings:
    +24,883 / 65 / -37
    From the script
    I think it's pretty clear that Vader sensed it in that very moment.
     
    • Like Like x 10
    • Wise Wise x 2
  3. Ruralfarmboy

    Ruralfarmboy Jedi General

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2017
    Posts:
    2,451
    Likes Received:
    42,393
    Trophy Points:
    160,217
    Credits:
    21,284
    Ratings:
    +44,227 / 20 / -17
    Agreed, an' not any time 'fore that.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  4. Moviefan2k4

    Moviefan2k4 Rebelscum

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2017
    Posts:
    83
    Likes Received:
    141
    Trophy Points:
    842
    Credits:
    518
    Ratings:
    +198 / 6 / -11
    And his one mistake was to taunt Luke, with the possibility of corrupting Leia. The boy's temper flared like nothing else, in response to that possibility...and it almost cost him his own soul. Only the sight of Vader's severed hand and Palpatine's continued gloating, showed Luke how close he was to becoming exactly like his father.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Wise Wise x 1
  5. CTrent29

    CTrent29 Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2015
    Posts:
    1,503
    Likes Received:
    1,510
    Trophy Points:
    6,192
    Credits:
    2,523
    Ratings:
    +2,410 / 394 / -178

    I'm still amazed that Palpatine's own arrogance and ego prevented Luke from giving in to evil.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  6. Justmeonhere

    Justmeonhere Rebel Trooper

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2017
    Posts:
    45
    Likes Received:
    123
    Trophy Points:
    162
    Credits:
    352
    Ratings:
    +160 / 0 / -0
    Yeah, that's pretty interesting... the fight on the DS/Luke's "You failed your highness, I'm a jedi like my father before me" it's one of my favorite scenes for a reason; it has so many layers to analyze and even more if we take the prequels into account.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  7. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2016
    Posts:
    2,501
    Likes Received:
    6,280
    Trophy Points:
    16,467
    Credits:
    6,228
    Ratings:
    +9,406 / 36 / -9
    Yeah, begs the question whether Luke would have come to his senses without Palps insisting on pointing out the situation to him.

    Palp: Oh, BTW, that’s the darkside you’re using.
    Luke: Ah, CRAP! Wait . . . I mean - nuh uh. No way. Look, I’m not even holding a lightsaber. See? Good guy Luke here. All the way.
    Palp: <heavy sigh> . . . Skywalkers.
     
    • Funny Funny x 4
    • Like Like x 2
  8. SegNerd

    SegNerd Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2015
    Posts:
    644
    Likes Received:
    1,123
    Trophy Points:
    7,392
    Credits:
    2,365
    Ratings:
    +1,725 / 44 / -5
    I wouldn’t exactly call it a mistake. Vader repeatedly taunts Luke and tries to get him to fight, and that’s the one threat that finally works. While it’s true that Vader’s actions put everyone in danger, he accomplished exactly what he was trying to do.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  9. Moviefan2k4

    Moviefan2k4 Rebelscum

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2017
    Posts:
    83
    Likes Received:
    141
    Trophy Points:
    842
    Credits:
    518
    Ratings:
    +198 / 6 / -11
    Not exactly, since Vader's original goal was to have Luke kill Palpatine. His comment about Leia seemed more about realizing he had another option if Luke refused...but mentioning it out loud set Luke off. Vader's abrupt turn seemed to indicate genuine surprise.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. DarthSnow

    DarthSnow Sith in the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2016
    Posts:
    3,114
    Likes Received:
    47,185
    Trophy Points:
    171,477
    Credits:
    14,858
    Ratings:
    +53,952 / 9 / -3
    ^^ This exactly.

    When Vader says: "Yes, your thoughts betray you. Your feelings for them are strong. Especially for..." ..I think that he is fishing. He's baiting Luke into thinking about his closest friends in order to use them against him, and is pleasantly surprised when one of them actually turns out to be family.

    It's also pretty telling about Vader's mental state at that point; he just found out he has another child but doesn't react how any normal person would. He just immediately considers how he can use that to his advantage. And that adds all the more weight to how much Vader had to overcome in those next few moments when he was watching the Emperor destory Luke and had to decide between the dark side and his son.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Great Post Great Post x 2
  11. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2016
    Posts:
    4,504
    Likes Received:
    20,403
    Trophy Points:
    146,667
    Credits:
    18,639
    Ratings:
    +24,883 / 65 / -37
    I'd actually be really interested in Vader's train of thought during those moments. I think it's pretty obvious he was poised to use whatever information he gleaned from Luke, but I don't think he was quite prepared to hear that he actually had another kid. I think he rolled with that pretty well, but I do wonder how disarmed he was by this information. Not only does he now know he has another kid, but also it's a Princess that he's definitely well aware of. Vader knows Leia, and has run into her at least a few times. Most of which were rather unfortunate.

    He says:
    Much like with Luke, Vader wants to rule with Leia if possible (which is a bit weird to be so open about right in front of the Emperor, but oh well).

    But I find this to be much more interesting. Later, with his literal dying breath, his last words are:
    Vader's looking out for Leia, she's clearly on his mind. She's probably been very much on Vader's mind since learning of her relationship to him. In fact, his last words of concern that Luke look to her may also imply that his saving of Luke was also a bit of a vicarious way of saving Leia.

    Maybe he even was thinking back in horror to all of the times he terrorized Leia during the war. Maybe (maybe) he even felt guilt, knowing the awful ways he treated his and Padme's children.

    I don't know, it's a lot of speculation, but I'd love to see a canon examination of this some time.
     
    • Great Post Great Post x 3
    • Like Like x 1
  12. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2016
    Posts:
    2,501
    Likes Received:
    6,280
    Trophy Points:
    16,467
    Credits:
    6,228
    Ratings:
    +9,406 / 36 / -9
    Uh, yeah. Like that time he, you know, personally tortured her and all.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  13. NunbNuts

    NunbNuts Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2017
    Posts:
    802
    Likes Received:
    1,354
    Trophy Points:
    7,392
    Credits:
    1,832
    Ratings:
    +1,885 / 10 / -3
    In the novelization you can definitely tell it was a surprise, although it goes a little bit differently...

    Vader stopped. He sensed something.

    Luke withdrew further into shadow. He tried to hide, but there was no way to hide what was in his mind—Leia was in pain. Her agony cried to him now, and his spirit cried with her. He tried to shut it out, to shut it up, but the cry was loud, and he couldn’t stifle it, couldn’t leave it alone, had to cradle it openly, to give it solace.

    Vader’s consciousness invaded that private place.

    “No!” screamed Luke.

    Vader was incredulous. “Sister? Sister!” he bellowed. “Your feelings have now betrayed her, too … Twins!” he roared triumphantly. “Obi-Wan was wise to hide her, but now his failure is complete.” His smile was clear to Luke, through the mask, through the shadows, through all the realms of Darkness. “If you will not turn to the Dark Side, perhaps she will.”
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  14. Bluemilk

    Bluemilk I AM the Senate

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2014
    Posts:
    4,457
    Likes Received:
    8,793
    Trophy Points:
    92,402
    Credits:
    11,921
    Ratings:
    +14,585 / 149 / -71
    Vader"So you kissed your sister...Obi Wan was wise for hiding that from me."

    Luke"Nooooo...it's not true...not all of it...ok I kissed her once."

    Fight ensues.
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Bendak Starkiller

    Bendak Starkiller Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2016
    Posts:
    917
    Likes Received:
    5,239
    Trophy Points:
    14,242
    Credits:
    4,007
    Ratings:
    +5,988 / 14 / -2
    When Luke was thinking about Leia at that exact moment, is my guess.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. kuatorises

    kuatorises Rebelscum

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2017
    Posts:
    194
    Likes Received:
    180
    Trophy Points:
    1,152
    Credits:
    697
    Ratings:
    +291 / 45 / -53
    I always got the impression that he figured it out right then and there. He was reading Luke's mind and Leia was on his mind; because he thought he was going to die.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  17. HonikerMcKillop

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2017
    Posts:
    17
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    2
    Credits:
    23
    Ratings:
    +8 / 3 / -0
    Well like, whaaat? Vader classed Luke, Skywalker, and luke was lke, where th,.. you know that name?
    And Leia didn't, know, who her father was? Organa didn't tell her? Who'd you think gave her the, plans, to give to Artoo? He wasn't there when she got taken, and you don't know what a geek looks like?
    That guy's who's legend for wearing the suit, that's the first shot you see, and it's one of the emperor's goons, after that, it was the real Darth Vader actor, George Lucas, right, who did it? Thank God, for george Lucas, he used to tell Leia she had to slim down, so he'd stop shooting, for it, and James Earl Jones didn't, want to be in that suit? You can't, walk like that, if you can't, talk, like that; it's breathing, dumb, damnit, yes, he knew who she was, he's Anakin
     
    • Clouded Clouded x 1
  18. NunbNuts

    NunbNuts Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2017
    Posts:
    802
    Likes Received:
    1,354
    Trophy Points:
    7,392
    Credits:
    1,832
    Ratings:
    +1,885 / 10 / -3
    Did you have a stroke when you were typing that?
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  19. tm0910196

    tm0910196 Guest

    Credits:
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Protocol droid requested....This does not appear to be written in basic...
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
Loading...

Share This Page