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SPECULATION THE STARKILLER: How Does it Work? Iron - Science Fact May Actually Inform Science Fiction

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' started by WeWhoSurvived, Oct 5, 2015.

  1. WeWhoSurvived

    WeWhoSurvived Rebel Commander

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    First, watch this 2 minute video:
    The Starkiller: Iron - How the Universe Works: Extreme Stars

    Iron is definitely a starkiller if it's being made in the core of a star. Fact:


    How much iron is needed to cause a supernova? Fact:

    "An inert iron core builds up at this time where successive layers above the core consume the remaining fuel of lighter nuclei in the core. The core is about the size of the Earth, compressed to extreme densities and near the Chandrasekhar limit. The outer regions of the star have expanded to fill a volume as large as Jupiter's orbit from the Sun. Since iron does not act as a fuel, the burning stops.

    The sudden stoppage of energy generation causes the core to collapse and the outer layers of the star to fall onto the core. The infalling layers collapse so fast that they `bounce' off the iron core at close to the speed of light. The rebound causes the star to explode as a supernova.
    The energy released during this explosion is so immense that the star will out shine an entire galaxy for a few days. Supernova can be seen in nearby galaxies, about one every 100 years (therefore, if you survey 100 galaxies per year you expect to see at least one supernova a year)."

    So, how does iron build up in a star? Fact:
    Basically, this only happens when a star fuses all its available lighter elements at the end of a star's life. Unless, of course, stellar death could be expedited somehow. First we must ask that question:

    Can stellar death be expedited? Fact....err...um...or...
    Well, if you're JJ Abrams, you didn't even need to ask because you already know the answer. But how? Well, it's fiction, so it's easy: just make up something that sounds plausible. Like this:

    Catapult a huge mass of iron engineered on the scale of small worlds to the inside of a young star through hyperspace, set to emerge at the very center of the star. Once there, perhaps it would displace the star's core normal fuel supply and over the course of seconds or minutes (as some scientists suggest), the presence of iron (along with perhaps another exotic catalyst) triggers the star's self-destruction. Where is the star's core displaced to, you ask? I dunno, maybe back into hyperspace ... dammit, Jim. I'm a Star Wars fanboy, not an astrophysicist.​

    My point is, there are probably dozens of ways to use science fact as the basis for a fictional super-weapon. The iron thing is almost too perfect a place to borrow from science to inform science fiction. JJ already did this with the red matter creating a singularity. In this case, it's even easier. It's just iron. Wait ... iron rusts into a red-orange-brown color resembling iron oxide. Shoot, iron is red matter!

    Where do you get huge amounts of iron? Well, well, well, my fellow nerdy nerds, you're gonna love this: from the CORE OF A PLANET.


    Maybe the FO goes from one planet to the next just to mine each planet's core for its star-killing material, eg, iron and nickel, leaving behind huge, cavernous, skeletons of planets. Yes, just so they could get huge amounts of iron to kill stars and once more rule the galaxy with an iron fist. Chilling. But it's just speculation. Chill out.

    Yes, I've heard the crystal theory. One variation of this theory is here.

    Metaphorical Implications: A Moral?
    What does this tell us? What is a potential metaphorical message? The light of a star dies from an iron heart. The light of people do, too, especially those who truly become immune to the light. The end.
     
    #1 WeWhoSurvived, Oct 5, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2015
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  2. ArynCrinn

    ArynCrinn 1030th Lieutenant (Jr Mod)

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    Interesting ideas... but I've a feeling that the movie will just use a big super laser.
     
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  3. WeWhoSurvived

    WeWhoSurvived Rebel Commander

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    A green laser? Haha
     
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  4. ArynCrinn

    ArynCrinn 1030th Lieutenant (Jr Mod)

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    I hate to say it... but that's probably exactly what it will use.
     
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  5. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    I would go with a red matter star trek weapon, I'll get back to you all with more detail.
     
  6. Willybobo

    Willybobo BEES!

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    I blame Neil deGrasse Tyson and the lack of a trailer for this post.

    image.jpg
    Watch this instead:


    P.S. We ain't Star Trek boo.
     
    #6 Willybobo, Oct 5, 2015
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  7. Yoda 2

    Yoda 2 Rebel Official

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    So it is a Kyber Crystal core?
     
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  8. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Rebel Official

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    I'm not an astrophysicist but believe I do have some basic understanding. Assuming you could already "beam" something into the core of a star (has Star Trek now entered the Star Wars Universe?) the existing core temperature of approx. 15,000,000 degrees (at that point it's rather irrelevant whether we refer to Kelvin, Fahrenheit or Celsius, IMHO) would instantly vaporize any solid materials.

    The development of an iron core (from what I read this variety will not cause a supernova) is a long process due to gravity unless I'm mistaken.

    The only thing that still defies my imagination is how something as tiny as an Earth-type planet could possibly do anything to seriously harm or kill a star like our sun:


    Sun,_Earth_size_comparison.jpg
     
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  9. Protocol Droid

    Protocol Droid Rebel General

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    This was my theory back in September after it was revealed that the Death Star laser was powered by Kyber crystals, and given everything we know I think it's the most likely explanation: https://thecantina.starwarsnewsnet....and-the-source-of-the-force.5481/#post-134619

    My current assumption is that the remnants of the Empire encountered the planet Ilum when they retreated to the Unknown Regions of the Galaxy, and discovered it contained a planetary core made of Kyber crystal. So they decided to harness the core into a planetary weapon capable of destroying stars. This would explain the large canyon cut into the planet, steam rising up, etc. It's also possible that the planet is capable of dislodging from orbit, or leveraging some kind of nonlocal capability to fire on stars anywhere in the galaxy. If either of these scenarios are true, I suspect an ancient and incredibly powerful force user (like Snoke) or a large army of enslaved of force users (children -- now adults -- from Palpatine's abduction program) would be needed to achieve this kind of mobility.

    Further evidence that Ilum is Starkiller base and harbors a Kyber crystal core, from Wookepedia, quoted here: http://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2015...-planet-from-star-wars-the-force-awakens.html

     
    #9 Protocol Droid, Nov 27, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2015
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  10. Lt. Hija

    Lt. Hija Rebel Official

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    What the... The Death Star's superweapon was powered by Kyber crystals? Which genius came up with that and erased the hypermatter concept?

    If it was some kind of energy beam and not a matter stream, can somebody please explain why the energy beam needs a surrounding containment and/or acceleration field that was clearly visible?

    Okay, now the Trekkies have Dilithium crystals to amplify power and Starwarriors have Kyber crystals. :-(
     
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  11. Protocol Droid

    Protocol Droid Rebel General

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    I have not read it, but my understanding is the Kyber Crystal / Death Star thing was revealed in the recent book Lost Stars.
     
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  12. Johnnylove

    Johnnylove Clone Commander

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    Check the unused story reels of the Clone Wars on the official site. There was a whole story arch about massive kyber crystals. Also, I'd say it's a pretty safe bet that Starkiller base is actually Ilum. What better of a place to build a base than at the source? They're also the same crystals that power lightsabers.
     
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  13. DamionGraff

    DamionGraff Rebel General

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    You have it backwards.
    Iron is the result of nuclear fusion in the stellar core, not the other way around.

    In other words, the iron in the core of such a star is completely inert. It's a side effect of the process, that's all.
     
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  14. TARS

    TARS Clone Commander

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    I'm sure if red matter can implode a planet, yellow matter can explode a star. I know, I know; you're thinking "Then what does blue matter do?" and the answer is: not much. It's somewhat sticky so you can use it for post-it notes. Blue matter is disappointing but hey, they can't all be golden. Like gold matter, for example. Surprisingly not golden. More of a light beige if anything.
     
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  15. WeWhoSurvived

    WeWhoSurvived Rebel Commander

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    From the Nov. 13 EW article on Starkiller Base:


    That sentence is the first thing I've seen suggesting the science fiction in TFA has at least some basis in science fact. It was almost as if JJ or DG, the two sources cited in the article, didn't want to go on the record with a quote regarding the science or how Starkiller works to expedite stellar death, but instead seems to have hinted to Breznican that cutting short the life of a star may result in a nova, not a supernova. It's getting away from supernova territory, which could be problematic because they are so destructive, wiping out that system and nearby systems. A nova, however, makes it a much more local event but one that could still wipe out life on any planets in that particular system. Going nova is actually how our star will end because it's not massive enough to go supernova.

    Carl Sagan describes the inevitable death of the Earth and Sun in his 1980 book Cosmos with gorgeous illustrations by Adolf Schaller, starting with the "last perfect day on Earth"...

    Sun.png

    "The death of the Earth and Sun. Several billion years from now, there will be a last perfect day (top left). Then over a period of millions of years, the Sun will swell, the Earth will heat, many lifeforms will be extinguished, and the shoreline will retreat (top right). The oceans will rapidly evaporate (bottom left) and then the atmosphere will escape to space. As the Sun evolves toward a red giant (bottom right) the Earth will become dry, barren and airless. Eventually the Sun will fill most of the sky, and may engulf the Earth. Paintings by Adolf Schaller."
     
    #15 WeWhoSurvived, Nov 27, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2015
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  16. DaveOlden

    DaveOlden Rebel Official

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    Okay, Starkiller base is essentially a Giant Space Gun (GSG) built into a planet, and they want to blast other stars "out of the stars"? How does one do that?

    Are they willing to wait decades for the energy beam to reach the target?

    No. Didn't think so. Then I remembered "tunnelling electron microscopes."

    So the GSG, when fired, does two things: first, the emitter creates a hyperspace tunnel between the GSG and the target star, then the destructive energy follows through that tunnel!

    *BOOM*! and they're done before lunch. :)
    .
    .
    .
    .
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    "Sorry about the mess..."
    (Hope they leave a tip.)
     
    #16 DaveOlden, Nov 27, 2015
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  17. Yoda 2

    Yoda 2 Rebel Official

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    That's a good theory! The catapult alias would make since.
     
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  18. DaveOlden

    DaveOlden Rebel Official

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    Thank you :)

    That's how I'd do it.
    I was trying to think up a solution to the interstellar distance problem (which is a pretty huge) using stuff that's already in-universe.
    Not sure (at all) what JJ and the gang have in mind...
     
  19. Yoda 2

    Yoda 2 Rebel Official

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    I wonder if the FINALIZER ship is part of how the Starkiller weapon works? In the latest TV spot it looks like Poe is in space as he says "All teams, give it everything you got."
     
    #19 Yoda 2, Nov 28, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2015
  20. WeWhoSurvived

    WeWhoSurvived Rebel Commander

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    Certainly possible. In fact, you'd have to aim the energy discharged, whether by the electron tunneling thing or steering the energy discharge via gravity wells (Interdictor-class cruisers had gravity well generators ... if they can do that, they can do other cool stuff with gravity to control matter), so a Star Destroyer is a good mobile orbital platform to do that. We'll see if those ships have that capability.

    And by the way, early concept art showed the Empire had that Interdictor-type technology, which was more or less adapted from the EU...demonstrating that the filmmakers wanted to increase the capabilities and intrigue of Star Destroyers in general for the new trilogy.

    star-wars-episode-7-spoilers-details-on-finn-poe-dameron-s-escape-star-wars-episode-7-320068.jpg
    interdictor_cruiser_sketch.jpg

    And, well, "Elementary physics: A beam of energy can always be diverted" ...

    TronBeamofEnergy.jpg

    "Are we there yet, mommy?"

    tron-gleiterflug.jpg
    --- Double Post Merged, Nov 28, 2015, Original Post Date: Nov 28, 2015 ---
    Iron absorbs energy and fusion. Watch the Discovery Channel video that started the thread. It's narrated by Mike Rowe. :) Iron is a starkiller. As soon as it's produced, the star will die in seconds.
    --- Double Post Merged, Nov 28, 2015 ---
     
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