What Could Have Improved Canto Bight?

Probably just kill of Han at the hands of Jabba or have him die as some defect of the "thawing" process but still need to get Leia, Lando, Chewie, and the Droids out leaving the story basically intact.

Lando puts on the vest and essentially becomes Han with a new face.

 

Have to disagree with you here. DJ simply doesn't join either side, but he's involved with both in TLJ; starts by helping Rose and Finn ends with helping the FO, he is absolutely involved. Finn had NO plan to be involved, the DJ option was never an option.

There is a galaxy of people like DJ (neither aligned to the Resistance, Republic, or FO). When we are reintroduced to Han in TFA, who is he aligned to? No one. But we aren't fretting about that because we know, it's not an implicit requirement to join the Republic/Resistance/Rebellion. From the OT, ST, to animated series, to the stand alones, there is just too much metadata (IMO) to make the hard sale that there are only 2 possible positions in the GFFA, Resistance or FO and Finn had to choose one or doom himself to the life of a scoundrel.

It may be your feel that TFA isn't about his growth, but that seems to defy the growth he clearly displayed. He goes from "running" to "finding something to fight for" in TFA. And this is why we say he was thrown back into the spin cycle in TLJ: because he once again "finds something to fight for". If anything, you could argue his TLJ arc wasn't about growth because ostensibly there isn't any. And it's further burdened by the puzzling decision to suggest Rose and DJ are Angel and Devil on Finn's shoulders (in which capacity they would influence Finn's thoughts) but instead essentially have Rose's life experience and reasons for joining he Resistance become Finn's reason for joining. His life as an enslaved child soldier was apparently something they didn't think they could draw from.

1. ESB happens 3 years after A New Hope (in universe). Do we know if Han joined right after the events in ANH? Do we know if he even joined officially? When we meet him again in ESB, he's throwing beacons in the snow on Hoth and preparing to leave to pay off his debt to Jabba. I mean how official was he? And if the terms of duty for these type of factions were that loose (where Luke could leave and go to Dagobah and Han could leave) why this impetus to jam Finn into a Resistance flight suit one week after the events in TFA?

2. Respectfully, repeating Rian's script won't rehabilitate it. I get this a lot; where people repeat the story and don't address the issues I'm raising with the story. I'm not debating the sequence of events that happened in the movie, I'm saying the character motivations through which they are supposed to happen are entirely unrealistic if not bizarre in the gaps they ask us to overlook. To use a real world example, Finn's Canto Bight boondoggle would be as if he saw the corruption of Venture Capitalists and decided to be a Democrat instead of a Republican. It makes NO earthly sense. The moral ambiguity at Canto Bight was NOT a reason to join the Resistance (or reject the FO), especially when this ambiguous group is dealing with both factions.

Yes, he has gone the half inch separating "fighting alongside the Resistance to save what you love", to "fighting in the Resistance to save what you love" - and we do that by showing that the Animal Abusers are bad, War profiteers are bad, and mercenaries are bad - so join the Resistance? Of course Rian's script also requires Finn to learn one last additional lesson via Rose about saving what we love, as she literally saves Finn from his uncontrollable hatred for the FO...a hatred that was developed... well... nowhere in TLJ. You are free to like this movie, but I don't think you can assert that there is coherent development where it doesn't exist. He is entirely and obviously plot driven this entire movie and it's why his actions make no sense. He is doing them because the script calls for him to do these things, not because they are well thought out, consistent, organic and relatable. We all have gaps we're willing to overlook. I know people who are still hung up on the slow moving Bombers with crystalline fragility. They are a plot device and a continued attempt to co-opt WWII imagery. Taken at face value, the bombing run is a bit ridiculous considering the available technology in the GFFA, but I overlook it because I know it's a plot device and I know that even beyond TLJ SW appropriates WWII concepts and themes. That doesn't mean that people can't legitimately take issue with it.

 

Why does the result need to be positive? The result is very impactful. If Rose and Finn hadn't cooked up this plan and ran with it most of the resistance probably lives. Luke has no need to step in at least in that moment.

Which means they actually did end up setting up the conditions that restored the legend of Luke Skywalker as well as put pie on Kylo's face for the galaxy see.

 

Have Phasma pursue the duo so it actually gets them to move their butts.

 

The DJ character serves as reverse affirmation for Finn. An anti-role model. A point of reference for who Finn doesn’t want to be: someone who only has loyalty to himself, his own safety, and best interests. He’s the extreme expression of Finn’s motives from TFA and functions to send him in the opposite trajectory. He’d already begun that journey, but this experience cements it an expands it.

But that’s where Han’s arc ends: him doing his part to fight the FO and aide the Resistance. He picked a side. "People are counting on us. The galaxy is counting on us."

And TLJ is about him finding more than one specific person to fight for. That’s the growth. He ends TFA only caring about himself and Rey. "I'm just here to get Rey." He ends TLJ caring about something greater: help protect the galaxy from the First Order.

I get it if you think these concepts were handled poorly in the movie. I do too. But they are there.

 

Ditto.

Especially that last part. It's not about liking or disliking these concepts. It's about acknowledging they exist, because they do.

I don't like the concept of midichlorians but I won't watch the PT and deny they exist within the context of the film.

 

It's a dead end from the jump and if it isn't he hasn't had time to even begin contemplating locating his family. Finn has no way to even start. He doesn't even know his name or where he came from and he was a stormtrooper under conditioning a week or less ago.

Earth is just one small world not a galaxy spanning hundreds of lightyears. If you didn't even know what continent you came from, your own or your family name, and had no memories how would you even start looking for a family?
Now increase that scale to a galaxy and shrink your time line to a few days.

What string would you have him pull?

Not caring for the context doesn't mean it can be ignored.

These characters are churning along quite briskly once we accept it's been a few days all told.

How far have you evolved since say Friday? Maybe even Sunday is more accurate. Less than Finn, I imagine.

 

Obviously he needs to start with Mr. and Mrs. 2187. FL and FM, I believe. He'd find them somewhere between the 2186s and the 2188s. If he runs into the 2189s (and their obnoxious dog), then he's gone too far. Hope that helps

 

He's a black man in Star Wars so clearly the only logical step is to investigate the Windu's or Calrissian's

 

...so, I wanna ask, 'coz ya posted this as a Serious Question ... right ?
What'd Ya Ask ?
"What Could Have Improved Canto Bight ?"

Yer Askin' me ??

Ok, ... Alright.
To Me ?

Nuthin'.

It Don't Need Improved, To ME.

I Ain't Tellin' The Story, Not Fer me To SAY.

Ya Asked What I thought ?

 

You have an over 900 year old woman in Maz who travels the galaxy. I'm sure Rian could have used some of those brain cells to make some connections. The FO has a massive army. Where did it come from? It seems Star Wars is the same as it is in our galaxy. Children are taken all the time, and it doesn't raise much of an eyebrow.

Canto Bight never should have been written. Can you see Canto Bight playing a pivotal role going forward? Especially since we didn't get to know any of the power players that were there. Instead of Canto Bight. We could have gotten actual Finn development. Maybe even make this galaxy larger by trying to find out where he comes from. That would have served more of a purpose than Canto Bight.

 

Canto Bight doesn't have to play a bigger role going forward. It served it's purpose of introducing certain elements and providing a moving point for Finn.

 

And most people believed it to be pointless. Since you can't point anything specific to Finn there is no moving point. If you want the audience to invest in the characters then the characters need to do things the audience can relate to. Fighting somebody else's battles isn't something we can relate to. Especially when that's the only story line people want to come up with.
Keep on losing money. I guarantee that is going to happen. One character can't be elevated over the others, and expect a good story. This is why the movie failed. No one in this movie is interesting now.

 

See, normally I would just laugh at this "Since you can't point anything specific to Finn" line because it's clearly bait.

 

Just kind of coattailing on the idea that Canto Bight taught the characters something through failure...

I think EPIX will show if this is true or not. These scenes could actually end up being pretty meaningful if the next movie puts them into a situation where they have to actually apply some wisdom or knowledge they learned at Canto Bight.

Lessons like these:

are fine, but they kind of ring hollow if they're simply learned for the sake of learning. If these really are the point of Canto bight, then Finn or Rose need to be put into one of those three situations in the future so they can be tested again (and, we can assume, prevail).

 

I wont lie, I will be very disappointed if Poe and Finn pull of some half-cocked plan in 9 that shows they didn't learn that those don't work.

 

I would have moved Canto Bight to the planet Crait. Imagine a massive cruise ship with a lot of rich and decadent aliens on it while broom boy and other slaves have to dig tunnels through the salty surface of the planet. This change of location would serve several purposes. First of all it would be a much more drastic depiction of the exploitation of the poor. Poor bunny-horses are sad but children digging in trenches while the rich throw parties on a nearby cruise-ship would have had a lot more impact. Secondly the slaves could have helped Rose and Finn (for example by lowering the blast-shield or reactivating laser cannons). This would have made Finn's and Rose's story-arch more impactful. It would've also helped to give a little more screentime to broomboy to make the ending scene more impactful. Last but not least the freed slaves could have witnessed Luke's return before they manage to escape Crait. It would explain how the legend of Luke was spread through the galaxy so quickly and enthusiastically.

 

Just so long as we still get the Hail Mary cockamamie plans that miraculously work out somehow, right? Can’t get rid of those.

 

You think the First Order records are available to Finn or that he should have been focused on DJ hacking them as the Resistance is wiped out? Why do you think they would contain his genealogy?

You think Maz knows all of the untold billions of beings, from whence they hail, and their family trees? Why?
Is it your position that a child here on Earth that doesn't know their birth family should just find a well traveled senior citizen and they can fix them right up or something?

I think your expectations are not only unreasonable but dubious in their logic not to mention a touch unfair aside from the fist two strikes.

Why isn't JJ responsible for establishing his own character when he had him on the First Order ship where maybe some trail might exist? Especially when he also had him in Starkville base as well but no effort or thought was required then in this are but now Rian gets both barrels on this? Why?

Sorry, I'm feeling good a poodoo flung at the wall scenario here.

 

Because he gets paid a lot of money to do it. That's why. You are making excuses for mediocrity.
I love how you think you can decide the scenarios in which something should take place. Both of your suggestions are so far out there you make your own argument.
Since I'm not getting paid for this I won't work any harder than Rian did explaining what his job is. If he can't take the heat. Then get out of the kitchen. This is a multi billion dollar franchise. You do what it takes to continue to bring in the big bucks. Not make excuses, and now want to declare how hard it was.
Making an attempt to find his origins is no harder than coming up with stupid ideas of bringing back dead people as force ghosts. At least Finn's origins can be a catalyst for his actions. Right now he's just a dog on two legs. He has no purpose, but to serve and help others. You think people want to spend money to see that?