SPECULATION WWYD

Alright, second cup of coffee had!

I'm going to go through and annotate from the perspective I was talking about with focusing on the protagonist in the deaths to illustrate where I see where you're coming from, but where it - imo - needs a slight redirection.

This can't be about the Resistance victory. All deaths need to push the protagonist's internal narrative forward - not the political narrative.
So let's lean into that bit of Finn. Finn is Luke, Poe is Ben....ish.

To do it right, though, it's got to be lock-step with Finn's narrative. That means leaning into Finn's foundering and lost puppy narrative. He latched on to Poe a bit in TFA for a while, but then it's just sort of dumped off to the side for the most part after the first act. So instead, keep that going. Finn would need to link up and leg-cling to Poe, rather than Rey, for the most part.
Poe teaches Finn things he doesn't know - like Ben did to Luke, but these are non-Force things. Primarily, flying. Because that's what Poe knows.
This would also solve the cognitive problem you were wrestling with in TLJ. When Finn takes up flying, it's not odd - he's been taught by Poe.

This would take some decent heavy lifting because it gets in the way of other things like Finn leading the ground assault since he's now a Poe-puppy, but it's not impossible to rework that (edit: I rework it below in the Maz section).

While we're reworking this, let's dump the "Finn the janitor" bit, which is arguably the most nonsense aspect of the story because...why is he then a trooper in the field at all?
Do you really need to brainwash your janitorial service from birth? Do troopers have "real jobs" and "trooping" is their side job?

What I mean is, it's a bit weird (luckily Star Wars doesn't have to typically make sense) to have someone in the facilities management support group in any given military jumping out of ships in the forward infantry strike force. That's two different tasks. Yes, they all get taught how to fight, but generally you don't ultra-train your support groups like you do your forward infantry strike forces, and you don't typically send out your support groups as your strike forces...especially not your facilities management group...and especially not your janitorial group...unless, I guess, you really needed latrines set up on site.
Maybe Kylo or Phasma has IBS or something...I don't know.

Anyway, backing off from rational land where Star Wars doesn't live, we rip that whole narrative out and Finn is just a straight trooper. Hell, lean into it more. Say he was a guard in the correctional blocks. This causes his tangent with oppression to be all the more potent.

I think you could swing this by just not having Poe and Finn split up at the crash. What does Poe being present kill for Finn?
Not much of anything. They can still meat Rey, and it actually gets Rey and Poe together much faster. Who cares about the BB8 trek to find Poe - that's really not that important compared to everything else.

Yeah, yeah, we lose Rey flying the Falcon, but woopty doo imo. It's not that I hate her flying it, I love it. It's more that...do we really care who's flying that thing when that scene happens? Not...really.
We're all more thrilled just to see that thing flinging around, and if Poe was doing all the crazy stuff Poe does in it, then you have Rey in the gunner seat so she's not just sitting around idle and that gives her chat time with quick humor lines jabbed at Poe, thinking he's crazy with the way he flies - Poe can fling back slings about her shooting. Banter. Always good.

You can even still leave the locked gun, and crazy move - still works.

Finn, then, rides co-pilot this time and that gives him a chance to learn piloting - can be a fun moment when Poe gets really irritated with Rey in the middle of the escape and -

Poe: "Alright, that's it!"

Poe stands up, tearing the headset off of his head. Finn looks on in confusion as the Falcon lists in mid-flight with no control.

Poe:
(to Finn as he walks out of the cockpit)
"Fly for a moment."

Finn:
"What?!"

Finn looks down in terror at the controls. Looks out the window as blaster fire tears from behind them - the ground starting to appear more and more in the windscreen. They're starting to head for a crash! Finn panics in silence and looks down at the controls once more. Grabbing them uneasily.

Finn:
"Fly...Sure. Just Fly. You can do this."

Finn pulls on the controls and the ship pitches hard.

Poe reaches the gunnery access and starts to yell at Rey right as the ship pitches, throwing him back against the wall.​

----etc... Poe goes on to yell at Rey not to tell him how to fly. She yells at him to fly more normal. They spat. Finn yells for Poe repeatedly getting louder and eventually gets his attention because they're heading for an inescapable obstacle that Finn has accidentally gotten into of the innards of the Star Destroyer and he can't find a way through what he's accidentally gotten himself into. Poe comes back and does bad ___ whatever and yanks them through.

They continue on, meet Han, everything's fine there - also a fun moment of Han and Poe's personalities clashing.
They can be split up here, because there can just be another ship - some small junk that Han has as a secondary back up in his bigger ship - why not?

Finn, Rey, Han, BB8, jump off to Maz. Poe, off to Rebels because crazy town happened and they all got separated and Han took to jumping into lightspeed before Poe could coordinate. Poe can swear in some manner at Han - another personalty clash jab moment.

Eh...why? Her dying here doesn't help anyone move. Save her death for TROS where she can die in a way that pushes Rey with the "I've seen your eyes before" thing - telling Rey as she (Maze) is dying that the eyes she sees in her is not, as Rey assumed, Palpatine's - It's Luke's.

Boom. Confirmation of motivation. Go get 'em tiger!

Agreed. With the Poe & Finn thing, you can have Phasma kill Poe in the second act where you were thinking of killing Maz, instead. That propels Finn a lot and really connects his narrative with Poe's, and connects Finn to the bigger story of carrying and being invested.

Finn could go all ROTJ Luke on Vader style on Phasma but without stopping, and freak himself out afterwards with how ragey he went.
Uncontrolled anger leads to darkness. Kylo may even look over in interest as he's departing with Rey.

---The rest, I'm indifferent to on the whole - that's more just plot stuff and I'm relatively indifferent to plot directions ---

There's an easier answer now. Don't make Finn in a comma. He's not even in a comma all that long.
Back in the TFA moment, just have Finn thrown away by Kylo using the Force. There's no actual narrative need for Finn to fight Kylo.
That fight's narrative point is Rey and Kylo, and Finn just is third wheel here. He's already had his big moment.
Han's been Rey's Obi, this is between Kylo and her.

Finn's knocked unconcious by Kylo in TFA...all the rest goes the same - just when we come back in TLJ, Finn's in Poe's place.
How can Finn be in Poe's place? He's not in their military?
Yeah...um...and Han jumped from smuggler to General in a hot second...so...yeah...military logic in Star Wars has always been laughable at best because it just does whatever to suit the story and get the characters in a position to have certain moments.

Anywho. Finn can do that TLJ opening and make all of those mistakes because he's still pissed and angry about Poe. He can even still be wearing Poe's jacket through it all - maybe pulling on the collar before making the attack. He does radical and crazy moves like Poe, but far crappier and more dangerous because he lacks Poe's control by a long shot. Something he'll have down in TROS.

This squares Finn off with Leia in TLJ and Finn and Leia have the whole Poe and Leia back and forth. Which makes some sense. Finn has emotional energy that is understandable to charge ahead bullheaded at this point. Lots of baggage.

For the record, eveything with Rey still goes as has been regular - none of this impacts that much.

The only real difference you have with Finn doing this all instead of Poe is that Finn and Rose don't need to get with Poe about anything.
Instead, they just do it. The whole mutiny tangent - meh. Who cares. Irrelevant. The net result is 0 in plot, and it only existed to serve as a narrative movement for character building for Poe, but Poe's not here, and this isn't the kind of moment that Finn needs.
Instead, we just work with Holdo finding out about their escapade and being ticked off. Communication to them via their comm link - chews their arse out, but what can she really do at this point? Nothing. She can just chew them out. Good enough. Everything else stays the same, except no Phasma for Finn.
Moving on.

Given what's been adjusted so far, move Rose around a bit. Lean into that "save what we love not destroy what we hate" bit some more than was because Finn no longer needs to learn to care, he needs to learn to fight to save, rather than destroy. In TLJ it got a little too complicated for Finn because he needs to learn to care and needed to learn to fight for what he loved and not destroy what he hated.

With the adjusted variation, he doesn't need to learn to care. He already has that. He's pissed off and not going to take it anymore. But at Canto, he needs to see the consequences of his rash actions - see that he causes harm by them like he did at the beginning with ordering the bomber strike.
This time by just not paying attention and just go-go-going with emotional intensity.
Something bad happens to the kids; they get hurt - maybe a parent dies all Ewok-ROTJ-like because of a butterfly ripple effect of Finn's rash actions to escape.

Here he learns the bigger picture of his responsibility beyond combat. How combat impacts the citizens.

Rose is that touching hand that connects that harm to Finn - he wasn't seeing it, she forces him to. That causes sorry and regret to bloom inside of Finn.

Beyond that, I would actually kill Rose in TLJ.
Finn goes to sacrifice himself to destroy, but instead, Rose ends up sacrificing herself to stop Finn from sacrificing himself.
Boom - literal actualization of the point.

----nothing further----

TROS
----nothing further----
Your concepts there pretty much flow with the above.

Almost all of your changes revolve around an augmentation of Finn's character arc btw.
Which isn't a bad thing. It's the most sensible shift to make to conserve things.

It reduces the narrative tangle down to three + Legacy instead of four + Legacy.
We end up with basically Rey, Finn, Kylo.

While the tradition is a trio, I think because we're now doing multiple character driven arcs at once, it's fair to clip it down and just think of Kylo as our third of the trio.
Finn on the opposite of Kylo side and Rey pinging back and forth, relying on the Legacy's for guidance.

Oh, right. Kill Maz here. Not sure how exactly, but something with the "eyes" schtick and Rey, but in a way that doesn't rip the momentum out from Luke and Rey later ... like Maz can't give Rey all of the motivation. Or...actually...kill Maz after that?

Unsure, but Maz should come back a bit more like Yoda to Luke in ROTJ here. Much more than she was.

Cheers,
Jayson

 

Ok.

 

One further thought... removing Poe and focusing more on Finn, which inherently make the story more a condition of Rey bouncing back and forth between Finn and Kylo...I would remove the kiss with Kylo in such a variation because it then becomes too implied that we have a narrative like Twilight where the woman is stuck in a love triangle, and I don't think that's a good way to go because it would weaken Rey into a "based on a man" conditional environment and her choice of light/dark shouldn't be able to be confused as based on who she kisses.

Also...there's some charming and attractive angles from the viewpoint of your changes.
It forces a tighter story, and that's always a good thing.

Cheers,
Jayson

 

Two things I'd like to add to my story, but I'm not sure how they'd fit.

In TROS, I'd like for Kylo to be dealing with visions or hauntings of characters past. He'd hear Vader, Luke, and a various assortment of voices that he tries to block out or frame as memories/hallucinations. This would obviously culminate in Ben's talk with Han on the shores of the Death Star. I'm not sure if I want the voices to quiet down when he's around Rey. On one hand, Kylo could actively ignore the voices while still taking them being there as a good sign, so he needs Rey to "join the voices." On the other hand, making her immune makes it seem too much like "she's the one who will save me!" and I don't want that. Besides, either path would be hard to explore without an internal monologue.

The other thing I'd add is a small scene between Finn and Jannah during Act 3. You see, one of my favorite moments in CW's Arrow is when Oliver Queen (the titular Arrow) and Lyla Michaels (ex-wife (and future second wife) of John Diggle) talk. Diggle is having trouble dealing with how their semi-ally Amanda Waller runs her organization; Oliver and Lyla have a small talk about how Amanda works, both stating a mantra Waller taught them. It's a small moment that alludes to shared or at least similar experiences under the same person. I can't remember the episode or the phrase for the life of me, but I think it was something like "love is a bullet to the brain," or some such talk about emotions.

I'd like to replicate that with Finn and Jannah. In my mind it'd involve Jannah checking up on Finn, and them going through a series of quick call-response checks or something. Finn would be surprised Jannah still goes through them, and Jannah would be surprised that Finn remembers. But they're both able to move forward, so they do. It could spin out into a longer talk (most likely about how Finn's training and past makes him an outsider in the Rebellion but his desertion during his first fire-fight makes him too...non-Trooper to mesh well with Jannah's forces overall), but I prefer to keep it short and sweet. I've wonder how to work this in for MONTHS, and I'm still not sure. But in the alternate world in which my ideas became the movie, I'm sure this would have been a cool deleted scene.

 

I FOUND THE EPISODE!
It's Season 3, Episode 8 of Arrow "The Brave and the Bold." It's one of the first crossover episodes with The Flash. Barry Allen and Team Flash have come to Star(ling) City to help out Oliver, and Barry finds himself disturbed with how dark the city is and how extreme Oliver's methods are. On the other end of the table, Lyla is dealing with the fallout of an ARGUS mission gone wrong, which has provided this week's Villain-of-the-Week. Diggle doesn't truly understand the types of decisions his ex-wife/now-girlfriend has to make, and it's causing friction. So Oliver and Lyla sort of commiserate together.

The exchange (with the quote italicized):
Oliver: Sometimes they don't see it.
Lyla: There are people in the world who deal only in extremes-
Oliver: -and it'd be naïve to think that anything less than extreme measures will stop them.
Lyla: Sometimes bravery isn't enough. Sometimes the world requires us to be bold.
Oliver: ...whatever the personal cost.


That finishing of the quote hints a connection that that is spelled out by the end of the episode which I'll describe down below. But I just really want to take that "shared/similar experiences" part.


MAJOR SPOILERS BELOW.

Flashback!Oliver is tasked by Amanda Waller to torture a terrorist until he gives up information about a bomb in Hong Kong. Oliver, while able to kill, balks at torture. He fails to gain the information, prioritizing his soul and the hope of reasoning with the enemy over the sanctity of others. The bomb goes off, killing dozens and injuring more. Amanda rips into Oliver's for his "lack of conviction," as she puts it, claiming that the people he is up against don't struggle with that problem. Amanda then quotes the themed mantra to Oliver, tells him that "torture is an art" that he needs to practice, and gives him another chance to do so.

 

Sorry to Necro a dead thread almost a year later, but I've had some ideas, and this is more or less the place I want to put them.

The major idea is simply that I've stopped viewing my revision in terms of a movie trilogy, but a comic/manga adaptation. I see this as a very good thing - the movies are done and complete, and it's time to move on. I can't do anything about that...but I can commission a comic/manga style adaptation of my idea...eventually...when I have money...

Anyways, the pros of this to me are:
I can add more scenes, including the "deleted ones"
I can share the commission with people once the "chapters" are complete
There's always room for more collaboration in the future with the artist.
Authors Notes can be included. I love Author's Notes, so it'll be fun to share these.


But to the Revision itself, this change in medium massively overhauled one aspect - Leia's death. Leia's death in the 1.5/2.5 draft is more or less unchanged in the 4.5/5.5 drafts. But with a new medium, I can do a LOT more with the events surrounding it, and how it impacted Ben. In my head, this would actually cover a few things. I'll number them off below, but this isn't the actual issue number these events would appear in.

1. The chapter with her actual death, everyone around Leia's reaction, her final word of "Ben," which is then paired with a splash-page of Rey stabbing Kylo.

2. The next chapter would start with Rey realizing just a second too late that she felt Leia's presence, and they Leia is dead. Rey would heal Kylo, run through the battlefield of people yelling her name for help, and vanish. Poe evacuates the Resistance, hears the news, and he and Chewie break down. (Finn would have felt it, but would have kept moving to keep saving people.)

3. After a chapter going over the Final Order officially taking over the First Order, we'd spend a couple of scenes with Rey burning her ship, and Luke appearing.

4. This chapter would feature Rey and Luke talking, and Luke offering to teach Rey one last lesson.

5. We'd then switch over to Poe, sitting over Leia's body and mourning her. Lando says his encouraging words, and Poe counters with something before Maz comes in and explains what she saw of Leia's final actions at the end. We flashback to Leia holding up the barrier, and feeling as if she's going to give up, but Anakin comes in. He apologizes for holding her back when Alderaan was destroyed, but as long as he's here, Leia's shields will not falter!

6. (The double-sized chapter) The next chapter - and the best part of this medium - features Leia holding up the shield as she regresses in age in her mind, but is helped by family members at each stage - as an adult woman she is helped by Anakin; as a slightly younger mother, by Bail; as a teenager, by Luke; as a little girl, by Breha. Finally, she is carried in the arms of Padme, who is singing a song from Naboo to her daughter.* All of this is juxtaposed with Leia's dreams of what an ideal family life would have been like for her (all her children, Ahsoka as a her Jedi Master, and trainer to some of her own children, Han with her, Luke and his family and apprentices, etc.). At the end, Padme sets her down, and Leia returns to the form of the young woman we first met her as, white robe and hair buns. There is a campfire, and on the other side of the campfire is Obi-Wan. Obi talks to Leia as she changes forms, from young woman, to general talking to a peer, to a girl, scared of the beyond. Obi-Wan comments on this, and assuages her fears. She asks him if he had a similar moment, viewing his perfect future. Kenobi comments that he did, and shares it with her (but not the audience). Kenobi states that the vision was his gift to Leia, but she has one last gift to give before dying. Obi-Wan "opens" up a portal to Kylo, and in those short moments, we see Leia talk to her son. We don't hear what she says, but we do hear her final words. "I love you, Ben."

7. Rey, having seemingly completed her training, leaving to go to Exogul, and things carry on like in the 4.5/5.5.

15. Later on in the story, the chapter after the splash-page of Kylo's redemption, we would finally see what he saw in that moment, and hear the entirety of Leia's final words. (Mostly just a message of how she failed him, but everyone fails and life, and that people must stand up from that failure. Leia does wish she could have done more, though. She then comments on the darkness coming, and that her family - his family - will have to stand together to fight it. So he must find his siblings, Rey included, and save them all. Lastly, she says that she's proud of the man she knows he can be; the Force is with him, and "I love you, Ben.")

The rest of the story goes as noted.


The other thing that I have now planned would be a 4-5-part short story (currently) set between the final two chapters of the story (aka the finale where Palpatine is defeated and everyone is celebrating, and the epilogue that hosts the wedding and has everyone talk about their next step in the world). It would feature the Naboo Queen and Ben Solo. Ben would be defending the Naboo Queen from survivors of Exogul who tracked his ship.

There isn't much planned other than that, but there is a scene where Rey and Finn are in bed, and Rey is worrying for Kylo's safety. Finn tries to assure Rey that he'll be fine, but she isn't sure. So Finn acts like he's getting up to use the restroom and goes to assist Finn. Instead of leaving the water in the restroom running, Finn leaves the fan (or something similar) on, as while the water may have been easier to do, it would have stressed Rey out even more - she comes from a planet where water is scarce. To use it so frivolously would definitely be a trigger. (Finn's excuse when coming back is that he ate something bad, but then decided to go for a run since he was up. Rey clearly knows what he was up to, but is thankful. When Finn makes a comment about going to breakfast but then yawns, Rey notes that they can have breakfast delivered.**)

There's another scene with the Naboo Queen repairing Ben's hand, but that's about it, and the final scene has Ben on Ach-To, meditating on a rock with three others nearby. Soon, the forms of Anakin, Luke, and Obi-Wan form. One of the three makes a note about starting from the beginning, and Ben says he's ready, Master. And that's the end of the story. There may be a scene were Ben flashes back to something in Kenobi's life, and Kenobi's presence comments on how that was a Force Resonance - something that occurs when two people, attached across time, live similar lives. One will see the events of the other, and it may lead to the two souls fusing to become one, leading to a cycle of reincarnation of sorts. (This would be the branching point into the Kenobi series.) But that's it.


*This song would pop up in TFA, quite possibly as the song that Kor Sella sings in an attempt to sway people - and most notably the queen of Naboo - to her side when trying to warn them about the First Order.
**This now spawned an outtake/omake where Poe would ask "how was it?" And Finn and Rey would start talking about how good the breakfast was, completely misunderstanding the question and context.

 

I think I would have stayed away from the Empire/New Order vs the Rebllion/Resitance storylines. I would also have made sure that there were more trained Jedi/force users in the galaxy.

So I think the way I would have gone would have been a civil war between Lukes students. Having some of them splinter of and form their own faction, may be controlled by Plaguies from the shadows.

 

I kinda wonder if Han and Leia were introduced too early.

Like, maybe TFA could've benefitted from holding off on introducing OT characters until Rey meet Luke at the top of the Ach-to steps, and Han and Leia are in the next movie.

That way, the sequels could really feel a bit more like they're about the new characters, rather than vehicles for the old ones with new characters along for the ride.

 

I can't be arsed writing the whole thing, but there are many things and plot points I would change.

The New Republic should be intact

Have Rey be a baddy, that would justify her lineage somewhat and make the reveal be actually impactful.

Ben Solo as the main hero, along with Finn, searching for his Master Luke because the New Republic needs help. Forget Crylo Ren.

Make Captain Phasma an actual threat and danger to the good guys.

Explain who or what Snoke is, in the first film.

Scrap the Rose character or at least don't make her get in the way of the main characters.

Rather than Demystify Luke and turn him into Jake Skywalker, he should be out there looking for something or someone in Order to help his "friends" rather than cry on an island while they all get terrorised and killed.

Just a few things I'd change or improve.

 

Im a little mixed on how I feel about Palpatine. I think is actually really key to the plot pf the ST. Without him, we wouldn’t have the whole Rey’s a Palpatine thing. Its key for the emotional plot if you will. Anyways, his return is eerie and important now that the ST is done and over with. HOWEVER, i personally believe that his return completely undermines the ending of ROTJ. Nonetheless, I can’t decide weather I’d keep palps or write him off.

One thing that I’d for sure do would be to make Finn more important. I feel that he was only there as a side character to help progress the plot. I know this is how a lot felt about him.

That being said, im no where near as creative as the wonderful writers over at disney.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 8, 2021, Original Post Date: Jun 8, 2021 ---

YAAAAAAAAAASSSSSS! I agree 100% with a lot of what you said. But more specifically, what you said with Phasma. I wanted to compare her to the bad side version of Cody or maybe even Rex. But, she wasn’t really powerful. She was only a character so they could have someone their as the leader of the troopers. If she was more significant in any way or more powerful, that would have been great. But if there’s anything, her silver armor is AMAZING.

 

When I saw this title I thought it was what would Yoda do

 

LOL. I can answer that. Do or do not, there is no try

 

idk run away and live in a hut and die probably

 

I liked the ST. But pretending for a moment that this thread was started right after the acquisition of Lucas Film by Disney (so no casting of Adam & Daisy) and wanted to be more experimental (ie. not worry on profits). I'd go with the structure of Legacy of the Force. Great balance of the family conflict and politics.

 

I actually wanted a 'different' kind of Jedi order, or for the Jedi order to end and something new take its place. I also would have loved it if it turned out that once upon a time the Sith were not 'completely bad', and the Jedi not 'completely good'....and for the new films to explore shades of grey more. Post the PT I have never liked the Jedi much, they remind me of religious fanatics. I don't think I ever got over Obi Wan walking away from Anakin and leaving him to die in agony when he could have put him out of his misery. It completely changed my view of the Jedi and the 'will of the Force' babble.

 

The idea that after the Imperial era, the Galaxy would yet again unify under a Republic seems unrealistic. I think many systems would have been pessimistic about joining a centralized galactic government again. Many systems would become isolationists and value sovereignty.

It would have been similar to the prequels and the separatist movement.

 

Please don't laugh....but I actually wrote a fanfic where that happened and instead the planets resorted to individual rule, but of course there is no preventing individual planets from starting wars with each other...

 

Yeah it makes sense. Star wars is loosely based on Samurai/Japanese stuff. And the most interresting period was the Sengoku Jidai period, which means warring states. The shogunate was basically powerless and japan fractured into states. The warlords and clan leaders, fought, allied and betrayed one another constantly. Until Nobunaga, who was kind of a bad guy, depending on your point of view unified japan through war.
Translate that into Star Wars and it would be a cool story.

 

I don't know if you ever saw the Chinese film Hero but there was a similar story in that.