1. Due to the increased amount of spam bots on the forum, we are strengthening our defenses. You may experience a CAPTCHA challenge from time to time.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Notification emails are working properly again. Please check your email spam folder and if you see any emails from the Cantina there, make sure to mark them as "Not Spam". This will help a lot to whitelist the emails and to stop them going to spam.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. IMPORTANT! To be able to create new threads and rate posts, you need to have at least 30 posts in The Cantina.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Before posting a new thread, check the list with similar threads that will appear when you start typing the thread's title.
    Dismiss Notice

SPECULATION WWYD

Discussion in 'General Sequel Trilogy Discussion' started by C2P2, Dec 20, 2019.

  1. Jayson

    Jayson Resident Lucasian

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2015
    Posts:
    1,989
    Likes Received:
    6,041
    Trophy Points:
    15,567
    Credits:
    7,781
    Ratings:
    +8,803 / 37 / -13
    I would have done what's in trilogy almost entirely.

    The only thing I would do would be technical differences.
    I wouldn't have written this plot, and that's because I'm not a professional screenplay writer so there's no way I think there's any world where I would have come up with a solid story that comes anywhere close to the caliber they came up with in this trilogy.

    But if someone threw this story on my desk to decide if that's the way to go...YES!
    All of it.

    It's mindbogglingly amazing how well written this whole thing is, especially in terms of the thematic chiasms - that is just jaw dropping considering how difficult that is to do.

    What I would do a tad different is in terms of technical choices.
    I would have stuck to exploring Lucas' pure cinema styling and techniques more.

    I don't feel like that was really done. Lucas had a very specific way of editing content together (he's not the editor all the time, but what he's looking for), and his shooting method is also unique.

    I don't think that his shooting method would have held up well, because it's a bit too esoteric for the current times, but the idea behind it could have been interpreted and translated - it would have been interesting to see directors take their swing at their interpretation of Lucas' methods and philosophies of filmmaking.

    Especially in terms of non-narrative story telling, which Lucas was huge into, and repeatedly spoke about Star Wars (from his perspective) being at its technical core.
    I've been going back and watching (and rewatching...because they're so dang good) Lucas' early films, and with having those fresh in mind, when I rewatch Star Wars, his pure cinema non-narrative style is really clearly present in Star Wars all over the place (especially 1:42.08, and 6-18-67).

    I feel like Johnson somewhat did something similar, but I can't yet really tell if that's accidental because his style is already similar to non-narrative cinema, and I haven't been able to pin anything down yet that's clearly Lucasian in style in his film.

    Abrams, on the other hand, absolutely didn't try to do anything Lucasian in cinematic style.
    I want to be clear here; I LOVE, and I mean LOVE Abrams as a director. I'm a big Abrams fanboy, long before he came on board Star Wars.
    When I found out that he was going to be doing Star Wars (and that Kasdan was going to be involved in writing it, and with the mind that it was Disney...which, I really love Disney's productions - I haven't been burned once by anything Disney has produced that I've been interested in seeing), I actually shouted in delight (and startled my wife).

    And I also want to be clear about how much I love the cinematic styling and choices that Abrams and Johnson made.
    I even wrote a big long post about how much I loved what Abram's brought to the Star Wars universe technically back after TFA came out, and TLJ has some of the most poster-esque shots seen in a long time - you could frame them on a wall as find art.

    But ....
    That all said, I still think it would have been sentimentally nice to see them work the Lucasian style into their own as a nod and send-off to the saga.

    I think much was well preserved of the saga's history in terms of the stories that appeared on screen, and the narrative forms, but in terms of cinematic legacy not much was preserved.

    That's the only thing I would have done differently, and I don't think it's a huge deal on the whole.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  2. Use the Falchion

    Use the Falchion Jedi Contrarian

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2015
    Posts:
    2,100
    Likes Received:
    8,760
    Trophy Points:
    87,867
    Credits:
    9,839
    Ratings:
    +10,125 / 25 / -10
    We’re in the endgame now, so let’s finish up.



    A quick change to the ending of Act 2; as Chewie roars in despair and Poe drops to the ground, I think we should see a single ship fly away in the background. We’ll see that ship again.

    It’s the one Rey is using to run. I had an idea of a scene with her running walking through the base, while people say her name, as if asking her what to do next, she slowly picks up the pace, and takes a ship to run away. I like this idea, but if the Resistance is retreating, it doesn’t really fit. I might try to revisit it in some way though.

    The next scene we see is of Poe, pinching his nose on a Resistance command ship. The Resistance, what’s left of it, has escaped, but they are once again without leadership. The ship drops out of lightspeed, and Poe stands up. On a table next to him, Leia’s body is covered in a sheet.

    Poe goes to Leia, and quietly admits he thought he’d follow her forever, and now that she’s gone, he’s so lost. He doesn’t know how to carry on, not really. How did she do it?

    Lando quietly joins Poe, and says to the younger man that Leia stood strong because she had faith. Not in any system, but in people – that people would eventually see where good must be done and do it. That faith moved people like Han, and Lando himself. That people were better than they thought of themselves. That faith turned into hope, something unexplainable, so fragile, yet strong as Leia herself.

    Poe asks Lando what to do next, and Lando says that Poe should carry on, in his own way. Poe isn’t Leia, nor is he Shara Bey. Lando comments that he fought with Poe’s parents too, in the previous war. Lando states that from everyone else’s reactions, it’s clear that Leia was proud of Poe and put her faith in him to carry on the flame of rebellion.

    Poe sighs heavily, stands, and thanks Lando and Leia, and moves forward.

    These scenes are more of a mirror and an amalgam of TROS and TLJ stuff. Poe’s moment of doubt at the beginning is reminiscent of Leia’s moment in TLJ (one of my favorite Leia moments of all time), while the rest of the scene plays out like it does in the real movie. I changed the dialogue because Poe won’t have Finn to count on in the final battle, so I felt that the message reached needed to change.



    In the next scene, we see Rey on the shores of Ach-To, burning a custom TIE fighter. She throws wood on the metal pyre. She throws her pain and sorrow into the fire; and lastly, she throws her lightsaber. The weapon stops in the middle of the air, as one Luke Skywalker becomes solid, and roughly, but not unlovingly, asks Rey what she’s doing.

    The next scene is Rey sitting on a rock near where the ghost of Luke sits. The Skywalker lightsaber sits between them. Rey mentions that she saw how Palpatine needs her to come back to life, and how by running to Ach-To she can deny him that ability. That, maybe here Rey can do what Luke did, and in doing so maybe she can save the galaxy.

    Luke sighs and admits that he was wrong. He states that confronting fear is the destiny of the Jedi; so what does Rey fear. Rey quietly admits that she fears herself. Luke states “because of your grandfather.” Rey is surprised that Luke knows; the Jedi Master mentions that he found out when he reopened himself to the Force; and that Leia most likely knew the moment she met Rey. Rey asks why they never said anything. Luke says that he already told her once before – family doesn’t determine her role in the galaxy, and it’s not on the island. But before she leaves, Luke does have one last lesson for her, if she’s willing.

    And there’s the throwback to TLJ Luke’s parting words! Once I started working on TROS I knew that I would have him repeat that phrase. It adds so much more depth to the moment now. This is Rey’s last lesson.

    On the island, Luke states that Rey’s training is complete, and hands her a new lightsaber. Luke states that it’s Leia’s lightsaber from years ago. Leia made it when she was pregnant with a girl, the Force urging her to give it to her daughter as a gift. Luke is positive Leia would want Rey to have it. Rey reverently takes the saber, and thanks Luke. He also gives her his green lightsaber, telling her that she’ll know what to do with it when the time is right. Rey then remembers that she has no way to Exogul. Luke cryptically states that she has everything she needs. In a flash of inspiration Rey goes to the TIE fighter and pulls out the Wayfinder. Luke uses the Force to lift his X-Wing out of its marooned pool, and Rey is on her way.

    Again, a mix of two moments. I’m torn on Leia being a Jedi – especially since I’m trying to work with the same amount of footage/dialogue that JJ had when filming the real movie. Instead of forcing in a background for Leia as a Jedi (although she was skilled enough to teach Rey), I’m having her build a lightsaber instead. One meant for her daughter.

    As for the X-Wing, that was one of the few moments in the real movie that genuinely touched me. I LOVED it. It’s a full circle moment, like Leia being the “last hope,” so it definitely had to stay.

    Rey also leaves Anakin’s old saber here. She didn’t forget it.

    Back on the Resistance main ship, Poe runs into Rose and Finn. The two mention that Luke’s old ship is up and running, and transmitting its location. Rose notes that it must be Rey, and Finn says she’s headed to Exogul. Poe says that it’s time to end the battle, once and for all. He turns to Rose – who interrupts and declares that she will NOT be sidelined for the upcoming battle. Poe agrees; but he needs her and Ko Connix to do the most important part. He needs them to broadcast to the galaxy one last cry for help. That this battle will decide whether or not the galaxy will fall. Finn asks about himself, and Poe states that he could use a few more soldiers, if Finn knows where to look. Finn grins.

    The Resistance ships out, most going with Poe and Finn to Exogul. A skeleton crew goes with Rose, Ko, and Lando on the Falcon.

    On the shores of the Death Star, Ben Solo watches the wave. There, he sees the memory of his father. This scene plays out like it does in the movie, at the end, Ben puts his lightsaber away, and walks off, changed. Ben sneaks into the Resistance base. He sneaks to his mother’s resting place, and quietly says goodbye. The Solo then steals a small resistance ship and heads off to Exogul.

    Ben throwing the lightsaber to me always read more cheesy than it did cathartic. I was a perfectly good weapon after all! So he keeps it, and can show off his redemption another way.

    Rey arrives on Exogul, a lightsaber on each him, and shortened staff on her back. She knows where to go. Rey enters the tomb, and there, in the middle of a area, is a door and a broken droid. The door slowly cracks open. We hear Palpatine’s voice. “At last, my child. Welcome home, Heir to my Empire.” The large area seemingly fills with Sith cultists.

    We cut to Rose and Ko. Rose broadcasts about how the First Order is working to bring Palpatine back; and if they don’t stop tyranny in all its forms here and now, the galaxy will fall once again. Ko mentions that she is the daughter of Princess Leia, and that while she wasn’t raised by the woman, she was taught by her example. Leia had hope. And now she too has hope that people across the galaxy will come and help.

    As this goes on I really am surprised at how much time I’m giving to Ko’s character. Granted, I liked her since TFA, but this is shocking to me. I’ll definitely have to add more scenes in with the Resistance base later.

    There is a brief pause. Lando points to the scanner, and Rose comments about how ships seem to be headed their way. Their call was answered!

    We cut to Poe’s ship exiting lightspeed over Exogul, and as he exits…silence. No ships, nothing on scanners…simply a storm-filled planet. Black Squadron and Jannah’s stole star destroyer follow. But no enemies await them. Finn radios Poe, asking what’s going on. Poe realizes it was a trap, and that they need to get find the Falcon immediately.

    Yeah, I thought that’d be a fun, pit-in-your-stomach moment. Where things click into place, and you freak out.

    Ships start going into lightspeed again, but Finn freezes. He senses Rey on the planet. Finn tells Poe to go on without them, and radios to ask her to drop him off and that she’s in charge. The lights on Finn’s dropship stutter on and off as it lands on the Sith planet.

    Finn doesn’t need a ship for this scene, so I’m changing it. The dropship lights shaking can be a nice, innocent callback to Finn’s first appearance.



    Rey ignores the crowd and focuses on the door. Rey asks how this is possible. Palpatine answers that Rey alone might not be enough to open the door fully, but her mere presence – as his granddaughter to provide a tether, and as a Dyad to provide the power – allow the doorway to open ever so slightly. Rey pulls out Luke’s green lightsaber, determined to stop him right here and now. Palpatine, in mock affability, states that killing him would simply empower him to take over the young Jedi, completing his return. Rey states that she’ll run away and find a way to destroy the planet. Palpatine states that his granddaughter won’t leave until he can fully revive, either by his own will or hers.

    The roof opens on the area, and Rey can see a space battle raging.

    Poe cuts out of lightspeed again, this time into a battlefield. The Sith destroyers from earlier in the film are here. He immediately scrambles his squad, and tries to contact the Falcon. A member of the skeleton crew mentions how they were able to cover the Falcon’s escape, but couldn’t do so themselves. Poe tells them to form up on him, and that they were gong to take out as many star destroyers as possible.

    On Exogul’s surface, Finn enters the tomb, ready to meet Rey, but finds himself surrounded by the Knights of Ren. Finn puts up a fight, but he is outmatched.

    Rey reaches out to change the battle in the skies, but Palpatine mocks her, stating she’s too far away to help. Rey brandishes the green lightsaber, determined to strike Palpatine down in anger. He exults in this rage too. Rey turns off the light saber and turns to run, but is now cornered by two Imperial Guards, with lightsabers of their own. Palpatine tells them to keep her busy, as he will siphon away her power as she fights.

    I’m torn on this. On one hand, this echoes everything that happened in Snoke’s throne room in TLJ. It’ll be the third (fourth if you count ROTS) time we’ve seen something like this.

    In the skies, the Poe flies. Poe flies for Leia, he flies for Rose, he flies for the battle of his life. Poe and his pilots weave through destroyers taking out TIE fighters as they go. Poe tells his allies to focus on the Sith Destroyers’ cannons; each one taken out is a world that has a chance. Jannah mentions that her destroyer’s shields are strong enough to withstand one attack, but they’re running low on power.

    In a moment of despair, the music quiets. Rey hears Ben’s voice, calling her name. She sees Ben, but nothing more. Ben offers his hand, one like before. Rey, like last time, raises her hand.

    We see Finn, struggling against the Knights of Ren. A voice commands them to stop, and the Knights split, allowing for Ben to enter. Ben approaches Finn, his lightsaber unignited, in his hand. We see Luke’s lightsaber on Kylo’s hip for a brief second. Finn glares Ben down, believing these to be his last moments.

    Poe’s allies are shot down, and over the main radio Poe tells Jannah to pull back their forces and retreat. Poe asks Jannah to tell Rose that he’s sorry he couldn’t see their child grow in a galaxy free of fear, and to “give her my love.”

    But suddenly Ben turns, Force Pushing away the closes Knights. Ben then ignites his lightsaber, and red transforms into a white. Ben Solo is redeemed.

    The Knights stand back up, and Ben prepares for a fight. Suddenly, Luke’s green lightsaber is ripped from Ben’s belt, and goes right into Finn’s hands. Finn is shocked, but quickly recovers. After a quick quip to the reformed Ren “who’s the traitor now?” the two engage the Knights of Ren, this time on more equal footing.

    Lando tells Poe to “tell her yourself,” and to look up. In the skies, we see the Falcon has returned, and ships of all shapes, sizes, and ages, have joined the battle. The Falcon then swoops into battle.

    Rey sees the change in the battle, grins, and pulls out here shortened staff…and ignites it into a double bladed lightsaber. The Guards engage.

    Here’s the climactic turning point! I’m still annoyed at the editing, but I’m not sure how to make it better just yet. The reason I changed the Imperial Guard amount from “many” to two was twofold. First, I wanted Rey to have a cool lightsaber reveal, echoing back to Maul’s lightsaber reveal in TPM. Secondly, we already have two fights going on where the good guy’s are massively outnumbered. Seeing a third doesn’t add anything. So here we can get a smaller fight, but one just as important.

    Lando echoing Poe’s line from earlier is why I moved it from Rey to Poe on Tatooine. I find Poe giving up at the last minute to be, while a good moment, very out of character for our pilot. So here he’s giving a last goodbye, and plans to go out fighting.

    Rey’s fights are spliced with Finn and Ben’s fights, and soon the two finish off the Knights and run to join Rey.

    Poe’s new allies befuddle General Pryde, who, watching the battle, is told that the new ships are simply…people. People rallied against the First Order and the Sith fleet.

    Finn and Ben catch up to Rey, who has finished fighting her own opponents. Palpatine cackles in joy, calling Ben’s turn and “rescue” of Rey the exact sort of foolishness he can count on. Finn asks if that’s really Palpatine, while Ben rushes forward in order to kill the elderly man. Rey tries to warn Ben, but it’s too late. The door opens fully, and Palpatine – an elderly, wrinkled, but supremely powerful version – is on the other side. He uses Force Lightning on Ben; the throwback is so powerful that it’s all Rey and Finn (barely) can do to defend themselves. Ben tries to reflect the lightning with his lightsaber, but he’s losing ground.

    Palpatine cackles, and using power unforeseen he shoots lightning so powerful it breaks the Solo’s lightsaber. The force of the explosion and power pushes Ben back to the ground, knocks out Finn, and nearly kills Rey. It sneaks it’s way through the entire stadium, killing every Acolyte around; it reverberates to the battle near where Poe is. Every ship is down, but Poe knows it’s a matter of time before the larger fleets get their systems up and running again.

    General Pryde’s command structure is struggling, but he puts them back on track, his faith in Palpatine’s return and subsequent care for them to guide everyone through.

    Rey, knocked on her back, slowly looks around. She sees Finn on one side of her, lightsaber still in his hands. She sees Ben on the other, his lightsaber destroyed. Rey asks for the Jedi to be with her, and slowly.

    Rey crawls to her knees.


    Rey stands up. Surrounding her, she can hear the voices of Jedi past. Yoda, Obi-Wan, Ahsoka Tano, Aayla Secura, Mace Windu, Qui-Gon Jinn, (KIT FISTO), Kanan Jarrus.

    Palpatine stops summoning lightning, and stares at the girl. Using mock pity, he asks the girl if she’s willing to stand against her own blood. Rey, arms shaking, holds up her double bladed lightsaber. Palpatine starts walking out of the door, but decides that Rey’s fate must be sealed before ascends to power again.

    Rey sees something, and tears start to form.

    Palpatine shoots lightning at Rey, but it’s blocked. Not by Rey’s lightsaber, but by LEIA’S. The lightsaber seems to move on it’s own, blocking the lightning. Palpatine is surprised, and doubles down on the lightning. Suddenly, Luke’s lightsaber flies out of Finn’s hands – shaking the boy awake – and across the battlefield, igniting and crossing with Leia’s saber.

    The power to Jannah’s ship comes back on, and she uses the last remaining power of her shield to power the cannon to fire on the Capital Ship. It hits, and Pryde is killed. Poe woops at the news. Jannah comments that the shields are gone, her crew is tired, and that they need to land the ship on the nearest planet. The Falcon streams by, and Lando comments that he and Wedge can keep them busy while Jannah lands. Wedge agrees, and the two fly, as if no years have passed at all.

    Palaptine, now frustrated, asks how Rey has the power to do this. Rey is amazed that Palpatine can’t see. And from Palptine’s sight we turn to Rey’s vision. In front of her are Luke and Leia, holding their lightsabers, protecting Rey from the lightning.

    Palpatine roars stepping forward, putting more power into the lighting. Rey, with the help of her family, pushes it back. Ben wakes up, and sees everything. Finn runs up to the older man and helps him up.

    Rey is serene, she hears the Jedi of eras past, urging her on. That the Sith are dead, and this is the final burial. Palpatine is now scared. He rants, talking about how Rey cannot stand against him; she is his blood – her fate is his. Rey, calmly accepts that they might have blood, but that doesn’t make them family. Hers is a family of choice, a legacy of wills, and she is NO Palpatine. She is a Jedi, like her family.

    Palpatine forces himself to take another step, bringing himself to the edge of the door. At long last, the ghost of Anakin Skywalker appears. Calmly, he stops Palpatine from stepping in. Ben, with Finn’s help, reaches one side of the doorway. Rey sees them, and nods at Ben. They raise their hands, and start to close the door. Palpatine is breaking down at this point. But Rey offers him no recognition. The door closes.

    The lightsabers gently fall to the ground; Rey’s lightsaber hits the ground, and finally, the girl herself falls. Finn goes over to Rey, and holds her as she dies.

    In the background, Anakin finally appears to Ben. Ben senses Rey’s death, but he doesn’t know how to stop it. Anakin sorrowfully smiles.

    Ben steps over to Rey, and asks for one last moment with her. Finn, reluctantly nods. Finn then uses Luke’s ship to escape.

    As Finn leaves, Ben sets Rey down, and uses his life force to bring Rey back to life. Rey sees Ben, and he says “hey, sis.” Rey hugs Ben, and he whispers to her “let’s fly home, Rey.”

    This is the one of the most troublesome moments in this entire “revision.” On one hand, I need Ben to revive Rey (who, since the two are so linked, isn’t fully dead). On the other hand, I don’t believe Finn would actually leave Rey to Ben. But I guess it’s a Force thing, where Finn knows Ben is going to do something, and is giving him the space to do it.

    As for the final “let’s fly home, Rey,” thing, that was not planned. But I think it works. Rule of Three, you know.

    Poe takes the last of the destroyers down; over the radio we hear cheers from all those that helped. We see Jannah ground her destroyer, commenting on the type of landing it was. Now all she needs is a pick-up. We hear the Colossus cut in, saying it can provide just that. Poe lets Kaz take care of that. Finn calls in, saying that Red 5 is safe and shipping out. Poe asks about Rey, but Finn says he’ll explain when they land. Poe sighs, but agrees. Poe states that all fighters were giving landing privilege on Naboo by the queen there, so that’s the destination.

    I wanted them to get to Naboo, and this was the best way. Not perfect, but it’s acceptable. Leia has close ties to Naboo after all. The planet they’re fighting over is as-of-yet undecided. If I make it Coruscant, I can have Jannah land the ship and say “another happy landing,” but that might be too forced.

    We see Finn land exit Luke’s old ship, green lightsaber on his hilt, and look around. Everyone is celebrating, cheering, hugging, and kissing. But Finn doesn’t care; he’s looking for his friends. Poe exits his ship, and we see him head towards the Falcon. There we Rose and Ko exiting the ship. The two girls run off the ramp and Poe gives them hugs. Lando and Chewie watch from the back.

    We then hear Rey’s voice, wavering, unbelieving. The younger crew are shocked; we see Finn find Poe at the same time. Rey and Finn see each other, and then the whole group hugs. Finn brushes away tears, and Rey, for once, feels safe.

    Now that the battle’s over, we enter the denouement.

    The screen fades for a moment, and the next scene is also one of celebration – Poe and Rose’s wedding on Naboo. We see them kiss at the alter and bits of the party afterwards. Poe notes that breaking down the galaxy into smaller governments will require more help than Poe has. Finn mentions that he’ll do just fine, and make Leia proud doing it. Poe asks if Finn’s sure about this, and Finn states that he is. All his life, he’s been raised to do one thing. But now he doesn’t HAVE to fight, he can see another style of life, one that protects life instead of taking it. Poe gives Finn one last hug, and says that Finn will always have a place here. The two hug, and walk in opposite ways.

    There is no government after TFA, and I always wondered about the state of the galaxy post Episode IX. TROS’s true version didn’t answer this question, so I put in my own thinking. The New Republic didn’t really work, so instead of one government I thought it’d be better to end on multiple, smaller ones. There is no more Republic, no more Empire, no major governing systems. I guess the Separtists got their way, in the end? In the books, Leia opposes the Centralists in the New Republic, as she fears it could quickly backslide into another Empire. Even after she dies, her goals of a non-centralized galactic government win.

    Poe then walks over to Rose, who is being examined by Rey. Rey congratulates the couple, and warns Poe that he better be careful, he’s about to be outnumbered 3-to-1, and walks off. Poe is a little confused, since that there are two parents, but recognition sinks in.

    Twins! And two girls too. They’d be named Leia and Paige. I wasn’t NOT going to show Poe and Rose’s wedding, but this is more so the audiences don’t feel awkward about children born out of wedlock than anything else.

    We see Rey go to Ko Connix, and offer her Leia’s lightsaber. Ko refuses, stating that it’s better off with Rey. Ko was happily adopted, so Leia might have given birth to her, but she’s not the woman who raised her. Ko will be happy honoring her dream by helping her friends though. Rey nods, and starts, to say goodbye, but Ko asks if he is here.

    We see Rey, Ko, and D-O approach a hooded figure. Ben lowers his hood, enough for the audience to see his face. Ko states that while she may never forgive the man, she is thankful that he saved their sister; and he’s happy to have met him. She walks off.

    Expecting a tearful reunion of blood siblings? Not here. Ko and Ben are essentially strangers. They meet, they mourn, and they leave, because that’s all they have in common.

    Rey notes that Finn is warming up the Falcon; is Ben ready to go? Ben notes that he isn’t going with them. He needs time to think. He’s spent so long tearing down the past, that the future is almost scary to him. Rey notes that maybe the first Jedi temple would be a good place to meditate for a bit. Ben agrees, saying that maybe if he starts where Luke ended, and Rey starts at the beginning, then maybe someday they’ll meet in the middle.

    Rey mentions that D-O kept saying that Ben is his master. Ben is amused by this, as he doesn’t remember owning a droid. He steps down on one knee, beckons the droid closer, and greets it “why hello there.”

    This was almost R2-D2, but I felt like he wouldn’t want to be with Ben, no matter his heritage.

    We see the Falcon land on Tatooine. The door of the ship opens, and Rey steps out. Despite the disturbance mere days ago, Mos Espa’s festival is still going strong. Rey walks through the festival, and sees the girl from earlier in the film, sitting on a broken cart of some sort.

    Rey walks up to the girl, who flinches away. Rey uses the Force to remove the collar from her. The girl, wide eyed, declares that Rey is a princess. Rey says she’s not, but she does know who she is now. The girl asks what. Rey states that she’s a Jedi Skywalker. The girl doesn’t understand; Rey smiles and states she will, someday.

    The little girl introduces herelf. Rey says hers: Rey Organa. Rey Organa, Jedi Skywalker. Rey then gives the girl a small nod to follow, much like she gave BB-8, and the two walk off into the Tatooine sunset.





    And there it is! My version of The Rise of Skywalker. It’s not perfect, and there are a LOT of things I’m not happy with or need to correct for continuity, but this is about as good as I can make it at my current skill level.

    Writing this reassured me that planning out a story before writing is definitely a good thing. That doesn’t mean there isn’t room for spontaneity or improv, but it does limit continuity issues and plot problems.

    This whole thing was like a giant pool of dominoes, though. I had a plan about what I’d change early on, and those changes rippled into TROS having nearly nothing in common with the actual movie. Jannah having such a large role here wasn’t a part of the original plan, nor was Ko Connix’s increased role. But both work relatively well, I think. The villains aren’t as bad/menacing as I want, but I don’t have the skill for that just yet either. I’m not as clever as I thought I was when writing this, and I’m still not good at love stories. But maybe that’ll change.

    Let’s talk about characters for a moment: Finn and Rey’s arcs throughout my version of the trilogy are about identity and self-acceptance. Finn runs from being a stormtrooper and his what his childhood was raised for, to a man willing to use that to help others, to one who uses that to save others, to one who can finally put that chapter to rest in the end. Rey desperately wants her family, and comes to accept that blood isn’t what makes family. Choice and love do.

    This is why Rey choses to take the Organa name instead of the Skywalker one. I hammered it into these “revisions” that Rey saw Ben as a brother, and Leia mother figure – TFA already states that Rey saw Han as a father figure. So it made sense for her to take on their name in the end. To honor Anakin and Luke she names her new Jedi rank Skywalker. It’s above Master, with her being able to hear and interact with Force Ghosts on a level Luke and others couldn’t. It also allows Rey to have her intimate name and Skywalker to be the last word of the trilogy.

    Poe had less of an arc, but he – like Leia before him – is our paragon. He’s the one who always does right, but as the movies go on, we see him needing to see a larger picture. In the end, he’s picking up where Leia left off, but you better believe he’ll do it his own way.

    Kylo’s arc is defined by Anakin Skywalker, by being his antithesis. Anakin is defined by attachment – he held everything too close, and it slipped through his fingers. Ben Solo is defined by detachment – he wants to detach himself from everything that anchors him, and does so with brutality. Anakin felt the pull of darkness, Kylo the pull of the light. Anakin never had a father, Kylo killed his own father. Anakin couldn’t save his mother, Kylo’s mother saves him. And in the end, Anakin teaches Kylo how to save others from death, the very trick that seduced him to the Dark Side. So Ben Solo’s arc as anti-Anakin ends, and he can start his move to more of a Luke/Obi-Wan/Yoda archetype in the end. His ending place echoes Luke’s starting place in the trilogy, and his final lines echo Obi-Wan’s first ones.

    There were more things I wanted to do with Kylo in the final movie – I wanted him to slowly lose everything over the course of the film: his agency to Palpatine, his empire to Pryde, his Knights to the Sith, and finally his life to Rey. But I’m not sure of how to implement that just yet. I’m not sure it would be a good idea to do so in the first place.

    When it comes to planet choices, I’m not sure if y’all caught it, but I tried to put a PT planet for each movie that represented it: like TPM and AOTC, we have celebrations and weddings on Naboo (this time to in public and to end a war instead of signaling the start of one); like AOTC, we have a mystery cloning facility on Kamino; and like TPM and ROTS, we see the continuation of the Skywalker clan and the Jedi on Tatooine. I almost put the final battle over Mustafar. Heck, I still might. But I’m not sure there’s any symbolic choice in that. Maybe Coruscant works better?

    However, as I was creating this, I realized that the ST is deeply, fundamentally fractured. There is something deep within that I can’t fix, not really. I can still love the pieces, and appreciate how it works. But I can’t put that back together, not when I don’t know how or what to fix. I tried with what was available, but even then it doesn’t flow like it should. Oh well. That will have to be part of the charm I guess.

    Again, I’m sure within the next few days/weeks I’ll come back and edit these for consistency’s sake. But here it is now.
     
    #22 Use the Falchion, Feb 6, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2020
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
  3. Phil J

    Phil J Guest

    Credits:
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    In terms of what I would do:

    I would avoid the excessive focus on trilogies.

    I would have shown the genesis of the First Order. One of my favourite videogames I enjoyed as a child was Killzone so have Brendol Hux or Snoke as a figure like Scolar Visari leading the descendants of Imperial officials on a dying and polluted world on a quest to reclaim their pride and overthrow an illegitimate and corrupt government formed by terrorists. A film from the perspective of them would be pretty wizard. The sharp uniforms. That unrelenting discipline. You know what they say: you can't spell fashion without fash.

    Rey would have the same origins but there will be some key differences. There would be an exploration of the relationships she formed with other scavengers on Jakku and the hazards associated with living in this harsh environment. One idea is a condition called dust-lung, a respiratory disease from inhalation of ultra-fine crystals in the sand (death by sand- Anakin's nightmare) which sticks to the inside of lungs like cement and lacerates delicate tissue causing the sufferer to eventually suffocate and drown in their own blood. Have a friend of hers have such a condition.

    Instead of Luke's lightsaber (I mean how the Blast did that survive being dropped down that hole on Bespin) the thing that sets Rey on her journey will be something that Rey has a familial connection to. Something as mundane but intensely personal as a broach or belt buckle. Rey later would make her own lightsaber.

    Han Solo would actually have amounted to something akin to his stature in Legends instead of being just another crusty smuggler. Instead of Kylo Ren killing him, just have Kylo Ren resignedly shooting him in the kneecaps and sadly whispering to his father 'please don't follow me' before walking away as Han loses consciousness. We would see a shift in Han's character from optimistic to glib, melancholic and bitter as he comes to the realisation that his son is too far gone.



    With Kylo, I would have his inferiority complex manifest in the form of sadistic cruelty and a need to control everything and everyone around him. Instead of the maladaptive teenager we observed in The Force Awakens, Kylo would be someone who outwardly projects the image of a chivalrous and dignified knight but that can quickly change. Kind of like Patrick Bateman or Ramsay Bolton. What is known in psychopathy as the 'mask of sanity'.

    After the first duel with Rey, there would be no neat scar but charring and contraction of the nearby tissue, some of which would be so damaged it would need to be surgically excised. Perhaps have parts of him replaced by cybernetics like in this piece of concept art.
    [​IMG]

    I would have also expanded on the history of the Knights of Ren in the films instead of it being left to supplementary material. This logic kind of like the ploy of a particularly sleazy game developer where they intentionally sell an incomplete product and you have to spend a further £30-40 in DLC products just to get what you paid for (core product) in the first place. Each member would be given space for unique characterisation.

    Poe... well basically this.


    Finn, instead of being a mere janitor or stormtrooper, I would alter his origins to be a high ranking officer within the First Order despised by many in the upper echelons but respected greatly by his men and have his story be the pivotal element in the series. A black Coriolanus. Now that would be cool.


    Instead of the Resistance, I would have named Leia's group Intelligence Group B or something when the New Republic was still a thing simply because the name Resistance sounds too derivative. Also, I would have given the members the power to access the resources of any civil law enforcement and local military of the New Republic. This would have given depth to the setting and insights into the structure of the New Republic.

    Also the whole disarmament thing is pretty Maclunkey stupid. After gaining power in a violent revolution, if anything the New Republic would have restructured its army like the Revolutionary Army of France, the Roman Army during and after the many civil wars that took place in the long and bloody history of the Roman Imperium and the Red Army of the USSR as there would be fears of reprisals by the remnants of the old regime as well as attacks from anyone seeking to take advantage of any any perceived weakness during the time of transition.

    The army would be politicised and the politics would be militarised as many in the cabinet would have previously served as military leaders and generals of the Rebellion. Great statues and edifices would be dedicated to the martial heroes of the Galactic Revolution who would be forever deified, propagandised and immortalised in plays and literature like the heroes of the Great Patriotic War (Russian name for WWII).

    Si vis pacem, para bellum as the Latin motto goes. Instead of the New Republic being weak, have it be a fully industrialised military machine. I would give the feeling that if you threaten to disrupt the Pax Galactica under the New Republic, which countless Rebels and New Republic soldiers died to build and maintain, the whole might of the New Republican Army will break down your door, wreck your face and burn your corpse like the communist scum that you are.



    A war between the First Order and a vigilant and militarised New Republic would be awesome to behold.

    Luke Skywalker would take the role of a visionary intellectual like Confucius or a reluctant teacher of his new Gnostic interpretation of the force. Despite being on his island, people would often go to him to seek his teachings. Eventually he will regain trust in human and non-human nature.

    “It is more shameful to distrust our friends than to be deceived by them.”- Confucius

    His neutrality in the war between the New Republic and the First Order would be... unwelcome by some. But welcomed by others as people from both sides would go to him to learn his teachings. All of this is given a particular urgency as Luke realises that neither side is willing to concede to the other, with his knowledge and a cyclical view of history he is keen to stop the galaxy from facing an eternity of war. He fights the spirit of war itself on a metaphysical and intellectual level, working to encourage dialogue between both sides.

    "Saruman believes that it is only great power that can hold evil in check. But that is not what I have found. I have found it is the small things. Everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keeps the darkness at bay. Simple acts of kindness and love." – Gandalf

    Phasma would be given the presence and intimidating stature that she was designed for. Instead of her giving the Finn et al the codes for Starkiller Base, have them find another way. I would have her introduction as being on a speeder bike with energy blade at the front and the front of her armour painted red with gore and giblets. I want to see her throw her spear and impale three opponents with one hit. Let those limbs fly.

    Regarding the Sith Eternal Cult, I would have it's genesis take place at the height of the Sith Empire and have it be a relatively isolated cult in the Unknown Regions encountered by the Emperor and an expeditionary fleet close to the end of the Galactic Civil War. They would have acted as the eyes and ears of each Sith throughout their reign and would have venerated them as living saints and prophets. As Palpatine had encountered them briefly, they would have known that he existed but they would not have been active participants in his reign.

    I would also have their spaceship design be unique and non-derivative, a combination of ancient and contemporary. Instead of the derivative Sith Troopers, I would have given them power armour based on that of medieval knights, a visual representation of their ancient origins. After decades of relative isolation, let them arrive in a galaxy that is by and large unfamiliar in its political landscape and ally with the First Order out of fear for their survival.

    At the end, let the galaxy be split in two.

    Sod Reylo. I want to see Rey with the sexiest man alive (well the second after Sheev Palpatine) in the sequel trilogy. Aww yiss.
    [​IMG]
     
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
    • Original Original x 1
  4. Use the Falchion

    Use the Falchion Jedi Contrarian

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2015
    Posts:
    2,100
    Likes Received:
    8,760
    Trophy Points:
    87,867
    Credits:
    9,839
    Ratings:
    +10,125 / 25 / -10
    You gave me this terrible idea that in an alternate TFA, the F.O. derives from the New Republic. Leia is a prisoner in all but name, promoted to uselessness. She reaches out to Finn, that high-ranking officer you've mentioned (who, in a twist, could have been the son of former Imperials but was "taken out of a suboptimal home situation" and given a new life) has a mission to reach out to a group of rogue pilots, led by none other than Poe Dameron. Officially branded a terrorist, but Leia thinks she can use him, if only for one mission. Or something like that...now you've got my head churning...
     
  5. Phil J

    Phil J Guest

    Credits:
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    I was thinking that the New Republic would be more authoritarian with a figure like Lenin or Stalin purging the old aristocratic classes and the religious institutions they represented, after all it could be framed that religion (both the Jedi and the Sith) instigated the fall of the Republic and the Civil War in the first place. In the USSR for example, 300,000 Orthodox priests were killed. And of course there was the Doctor's Plot in which Stalin famously referred to a conspiracy of 'rootless metropolitans'.



    Leia's role would be that of an intelligence officer, still motivated by a sense of idealism until Poe, portrayed as a spice addicted commissar, shows her the ugly side of the New Republic. Entire planets and asteroids converted into gulags for political and ideological prisoners. The mysterious disappearances, accidents and suicides of prominent figures. The systemic use of torture and summary execution of prisoners of war, looting and of course those civilian casualties.

    Leia at this point would become depressed as she was not an outsider this time but a key figure in creating this apparatus of oppression whether knowingly or not. This revelation would in part damage her view of the nature of people and also lead her to question why she and so many rebelled against the Empire in the first place if the replacement would become so much worse. She would not know who to turn to as there would be spies everywhere and any notion of dissent would be crushed.

    Any notion of open rebellion would be out of the question as even if she could, this would lead to another bout of death and destruction across the galaxy with an uncertain outcome and the potential loss of the few friends she has left. That and when she was working to build the New Republic, she would have seen the cost of the Galactic Civil War in terms of resources, economic and political costs as well as the human impact. She would be keen to ensure that such an event never happens again.

    Her boss being the equivalent of Beria- a man nicknamed the Soviet Himmler. A cruel and capricious being with the power of life and death on a galactic scale which he or she exercises frequently. She hears of Finn's exile and his rebellion against his former masters and she silently supports him, giving him bandages, weapons, droids and other resources. This in turn attracts the attention of her boss who begins to monitor her more closely... waiting for her to step out of line.

    This would introduce a thriller element that we have not seen often in Star Wars films.



    In this iteration, there are no good or evil sides as both have equally dirty hands.

    Something a little lighthearted to listen to after this.

     
  6. Phil J

    Phil J Guest

    Credits:
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    In my iteration of the Sequel Trilogy, Rose would be the equivalent of Lyudmila Pavlichenko, a ghostly and vengeful sniper who stalked the battlefield who's very presence caused terror in the heart of the enemy and who had amassed a sizeable kill-count (I believe it was 305). Instead of being a bomber pilot as she was in the films, her origin would be changed to that of scout or courier who quickly found herself isolated in First Order territory, her garrison heavily besieged.
    Rose's actions and bravery would be noticed by the leadership of the New Republic who would use her as a potent propaganda symbol.

    Eventually, she would be met by Poe, a former pilot turned commissar. Commissar Poe would be sent to a range of regiments during the course of his tenure, his easygoing manner, people skills and leniency making him popular among the regiments he was sent to- well as popular as a commissar with the power to arbitrarily arrest and execute people who misbehaved or strayed too far from the New Republic line could be.

    During the course of his tenure, Commissar Poe would note with distaste the practices of his colleagues in the commissariat and the military above. Rather than rebel, Commissar Poe would take it upon himself to extol and embody the virtues of the martial heroes that formed the New Republic.
     
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
  7. Use the Falchion

    Use the Falchion Jedi Contrarian

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2015
    Posts:
    2,100
    Likes Received:
    8,760
    Trophy Points:
    87,867
    Credits:
    9,839
    Ratings:
    +10,125 / 25 / -10
    After taking a break for a bit, I ended up coming back to the revision I posted here previously and revised it more. If I were to call the drafts posted here Draft 1 and Draft 2 (from TROS Part 2 and beyond), I'd say I'm on Draft 4.5 now, and I think it's pretty much complete. The reason for this is twofold. When I first finished Draft 2 - the one I posted here - I felt sad. It felt like my fixes weren't enough to fix this broken story, and it honestly was really weird. So I took some time off and came back to it when I was compiling it into one, long document. I found that there were things that I wanted, no needed to add. Scenes needed to move and character motivations needed to change (but not by much). So I worked on it, and eventually I found a pretty solid version.

    The biggest changes I made: I added two characters to the story - a queen of Naboo who would be Kor Sella's antagonist in TFA and an ally with her own arc in TROS; and Traya, a spy in the Resistance who teams up with Finn during TLJ. With these characters and other changes (i.e. the Knights of Ren gaining more screentime, Jannah's role, new sub-plots and new battlefronts for TROS) the revision blossomed.

    But now it's about done, and...yeah. I just wanted to say that.
     
  8. Angelman

    Angelman Servant of the Whills -- Slave to the Muses
    1030th Grand Admiral ***** (Mod)

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014
    Posts:
    2,645
    Likes Received:
    33,583
    Trophy Points:
    157,967
    Credits:
    16,282
    Ratings:
    +36,599 / 72 / -20
    WARNING, looooong post.

    The ST is good and strong as it is, but everything can benefit from 2020 hindsight. So, in a fantasy land where I got to give some editorial input on the ST (say, if it was plotted story boarded down to the minutest detail) BEFORE they were released, these are some changes I would have recommended.

    I see the ST’s biggest problem as having way too many characters to juggle and give screen time, so I – in an editing capacity – would advice LFL to cut down/kill off characters wherever they could. Let’s do a count of central characters in TFA:
    --Legacy Characters: Luke, Leia, Han, Chewbacca, R2-D2, C3P0. These characters (+ a few) had their own entire trilogy in the OT, but now they must share the stage with loads of new generation characters.
    --New Generation Characters: Rey, Poe, Finn, BB-8, Hux, Kylo Ren, Cpt. Phasma, Snoke, Maz Kanata (+Lt. Connix and a few others)


    That’s a WHOLE LOT of characters to find room for. TFA tries to handle this by leaving Luke & R2-D2 out almost entirely (and folks like Lando, completely). As sad as it was to be “robbed” of these characters at the time, it was also a very smart move. Han, of course, is killed off, and he’s the only important character to go in TFA (by comparison, ANY killed off at least 3 central characters (Tarkin, Kenobi, & Biggs, also the Kenobi death hardly counts as he came back regardless).

    I, however, would go further.


    Edits to TFA

    POE: I would definitely follow the original plan and kill off Poe in TFA. He’s a great character and Oscar Isaac is one of my absolute favorite actors, but he is not needed for TFA/ST and adds clutter. Specifically, I wouldn’t have killed off Poe in the final battle by having him sacrifice himself to take out the MacGuffin to add a cost to the Resistance victory. (This would also add more weight to Finn being incapacitated, for if Poe can die Finn’s life might be in jeopardy as well).

    MAZ: In my edit, she would get kill Maz off in the Takodana attack.

    PHASMA: I would have Finn square off with her in THIS movie, and get her out of the way. Again, Christie is a treasure and the character sure looks cool, but we don’t need it.

    FINN: I would add additional motivation to this character by having him wanting to go after Phasma; not the entire First Order, mind you, just his ex-boss.

    I would set up the Han & Chewie reveal by having Unkar Plutt mention something like “Now, the Eravana crew is definitely going to steal the Falcon off me!”. A henchman would ask, “Who are they?”, to which Plutt answers “Bad people…” <--or some such thing, just better.

    The 1st Act of TFA is pretty perfect; I count it as the best act in all of Star Wars. That said, I think Starkiller Base and the First Order requires a stronger set-up, and I would have SK fire the starkiller gun almost at the get-go. The First Order have openly attacked civilians on Jakku and they preemptively strike at the heart of the Republic. The Snoke stuff could then possibly have been held off till Act 2.

    The 2nd Act of TFA I don’t much like. Everything that happens is WAY too convenient, even more so than Bespin being right next door (via STL travel nonetheless) to Hoth in TESB! First, I would have Plutt chase the Millennium Falcon from Jakku with a tracking device ala ANH, and the First Order spy being a member of his crew. Secondly, I would have Maz contact the Resistance instead of a random patron of her cantina. Thirdly, I would have Poe do something very risky to set up his recklessness and his death/sacrifice in Act 3.

    The 3rd Act of TFA is all right. Apart from changes I’ve already mentioned, I don’t think it would’ve needed much more editing.


    Edits to TLJ
    Not-POE: Having killed off Poe, we now have a problem. His arc is one of the most interesting in TLJ and I would try to give as much as possible of it to Finn (see below). Our main problem now remains the opening scene, which relies on Poe and his arc. Finn can’t easily take over this opening as he isn’t a pilot, but he sort of has to to make the taken-over Poe-arc work. I guess we could have Finn leading the battle from the gunnery position of a Y-wing, or whatever, but that doesn’t really fit Finn’s character that much… In addition, Finn is incapacitated at the beginning of Ep.8, so we can’t really have him step into Poe’s shoes here convincingly. As a compromise, that regrettably robs Finn of the reckless leader aspect of Poe’s arc, I propose re-introducing Wedge here… older, angry, cool, and bad-ass, he leads the charge on the First Order fleet… and dies. It is not perfect, but without rewriting the entire opening, it’s the best I can come up with.

    FINN: Having dispatched Phasma in Ep.7, he would, in my edit, get a chance to square off against Hux in Ep.8, working his way up the First Order ladder, so to speak. Furthermore, with Poe now out, I would give the entire a-rising-leader-of-the-Resistance arc to Finn; he would perhaps receive a medal from Leia early on, as a morality boost for the Resistance, and then he would grow disillusioned when the Resistance command didn’t actually include him in important stuff. This would bring him to quit the Resistance similarly to how he quit the First Order, to go looking for Rey with Rose as per TLJ.

    ROSE: Despite her being a new character introduced, I would keep Rose exactly as she is. That’s one fantastic character, and the heart of the entire movie AND the audience representative. That said, I completely agree with not giving her much more to do in TRoS; she’s a side-character who did her thing and completed her arc in TLJ, and I’m good with here taking backseat in the finale.

    Other than that, fixing the problem caused by killing off Poe (and to a lesser extent Phasma) in ep.7, I can’t think of much else I would like to edit, real. We could have a First Order mole in the Resistance fleet reporting to Hux that the heroes are running low on fuel (rather than having FO analysts figure this out), and there are one or two VERY minor visual changes I would like to see (Rey’s escape pod being violently grabbed by tractor beams on its way to Kylo Ren, for instance).


    Edits to TRoS
    Now, with the caveat that I’ve only seen this movie 2-3 times, I like this movie and its writing a LOT more than most. At the same time, it is the movie that would be the easiest to edit; one could make very who or very many edits to TRoS, depending on what one wished the edit to accomplish. I shan’t go through every minute detail here, but instead just mention a few things I’d like to have changed in TRoS.

    The Opening: Keep the Kylo Ren stuff; that stuff is cool. But, I would change the heroes’ opening to something a bit more “explosive”, and something which brings in Lando from the very start (removing the need to stumble upon him by accident in Act 2). Here goes.

    After the crawl we pan over to a serene orange gas giant floating in the dark of space – it is Bespin. Zooming in, we gradually reveal blaster canon fire and ships in orbit, fighting around a Cloud City on fire, careening badly; the Resistance is attacking a First Order blockade to liberate Lando. We have dialogue something like this:​

    Rey (in the MF cockpit) shouting: “Are you sure this guy is worth all this?”
    Chewie (co-pilot) growls something.
    C3PO translates: “Lando’s an old friend of Chewie and me, and a Hero of the Rebellion.”
    Rey: "Yet, he didn't answer Leia's call..."
    Chewie: Roars and points to the Cloud City on fire.
    Rey: "Good point."
    Finn blasts FO TIEs. The MF flies past a FO Star Destroyer, very close to make a harder target; Finn & Hux/Pryde lock eyes through the viewports.
    Wedge or someone (from their X-wing): “You guys better hurry! First Order Reinforcements could arrive any minute now!”
    Rey: “Look, they’re already here.” FO forces materializes out of hyperspace.​

    From here we go on to the MF heroes (and other Resistance ships) evacuating Lando & some Cloud City personnel; Lando is in FO custody (basically in Han’s cell from TESB). Lobot appears but goes down with Cloud City, sacrificing himself. (Sorry, no room for Lobot in the story). R2-D2 reconnects with the Cloud City central computer and BB-8 is instrumental in Lando’s liberation. Finn encounters a group of FO Stormtroopers who recognizes him and surrenders, wishing to follow his example and change sides.

    In all the hubbub, Chewie, who leads the evacuation efforts, gets stunned and captured by the First Order (i.e. getting all that over with) – Rey will “kill” him at a later time, possibly while skype-fighting Kylo. Allegiant General Pryde, unconvinced of Hux’ abilities, notes that the victory would already be theirs if only Kylo Ren and his Knights where here – Hux is not amused. The heroes escape with Lando, paying a high price.

    Cut to Kylo on Exegol, doing his thing.

    Cut to Leia at the Resistance HQ. (Probably body double from behind). She sighs painfully and sits down, the years and heartache weighing her down. “Oh Ben,” she whispers sadly, shaking her head. Then, she looks to the stars, “Rey, now you’re our only hope” she says with tiredly. (Obviously, this edit must fit whatever shots and dialogue available for Leia; a short mentioning of Leia realizing that Palpatine being back would be great here).

    In hyperspace, Rey feels Leia’s woes: “We’ve got to get back to HQ fast. Master Leia has little time left and I’ve still got so much to learn.”
    Lando (now in the co-pilot seat): “The Falcon is fast, but even she can’t hold back time.”
    Rey: “R2, is there anything you can do?”
    C3PO sadly: “I’m afraid my old friend is all but spent. I doubt there are any tricks left in him.”
    R2-D2: Warbles an angry objection and hurries back to the hyperdrive. He fiddles with the Falcon, and they manage to pull off the hyperskip thing (if we even need that), or simply goes a fraction faster while the MF is breaking down around our heroes.

    The heroes arrive back at the base, and Rey immediately resumes her training with Leia.​

    Furthermore, I would play up Finn's liberator-of-Stormtroopers theme more, possibly having him lead a rescue some incarcerated turncoat Stormtroopers or whatever, and he should have a final boss-showdown towards the end, with either Hux or Pryde (depending on the plot; these two's plot points could switch around at will, really).

    That’s all I’ve got for now. I would also like to edit the Ochi plot to make it less convenient and to fix the dagger MacGuffin a bit. (At the very least, I would require the dagger viewed from a specific location and position to make the map-pointer thingy work; it is insanely convenient that Rey just happen to stand in the right spot on the right cliff to have the dagger pointer thingy indicate the Wayfinder location). Perhaps I’ll update my “edit” at some point, but for right now, this is it. Hope you like it :)

    PS: I love the ST and find it to be a great and fresh addition to the SW franchise :D
     
    #28 Angelman, Jul 22, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2020
    • Like Like x 3
  9. Jayson

    Jayson Resident Lucasian

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2015
    Posts:
    1,989
    Likes Received:
    6,041
    Trophy Points:
    15,567
    Credits:
    7,781
    Ratings:
    +8,803 / 37 / -13
    You're running smack into an age old problem with Star Wars.
    Star Wars doesn't kill its protagonists nearly ever.

    In the OT, Lucas adamantly refused any to be killed - even when that made a potentially weaker script.

    You're taking a swing at killing people off, but it's interesting because in so doing, you're then relying on legacy characters to pick up the tab, and at times only to themselves be killed off; increasing the death toll rate. :)

    Star Wars has this other problem. It uses secondary protagonists/antagonists as props to show us something about a primary protagonist.
    But the problem is that periodically those secondary characters run away with the fan attention and you're kind of stuck with them lingering around.

    The main problem the ST struggled with was the baggage of the Legacy Characters getting in the way at almost every turn of the Nouveau Characters.
    Telling the second half of the heroe's journey on top of the first half within the same films...without just killing everyone right and left. I feel for the writers!

    It's a hard and tricky thing to balance this massive pile of stuff going on.


    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Angelman

    Angelman Servant of the Whills -- Slave to the Muses
    1030th Grand Admiral ***** (Mod)

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014
    Posts:
    2,645
    Likes Received:
    33,583
    Trophy Points:
    157,967
    Credits:
    16,282
    Ratings:
    +36,599 / 72 / -20
    Oh, I'm not talking about killing off protagonists.

    You can't kill Luke or Leia in the OT or Rey in the ST, except possibly as an finalé sacrifice. What I mentioned was killing of secondary characters to make more space for the primary characters and arcs to flourish; like letting Poe (and Maz, Phasma, etc.) die meaningful deaths to inform the story and add stakes. Much like aunt & unlce Lars, Tarkin, Kenobi (if you allow that), and best-friend Biggs get killed off in ANH. By keeping every side character around you'll quickly amass a vast number of people and arcs to clutter the story with, taking attention away from the protagonists and their arcs.

    I do agree that protagonists can hardly be killed off in Star Wars (and I don't think I advocated that in the above text).
     
    • Like Like x 3
  11. Embo and His Pet Anooba

    Embo and His Pet Anooba Force Attuned

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2020
    Posts:
    1,008
    Likes Received:
    8,925
    Trophy Points:
    16,117
    Credits:
    8,583
    Ratings:
    +9,819 / 7 / -5
    Except for in Legends with Chewie vs a moon or Anakin vs Voxyn! I liked the slaughter of main characters in GOT or in Legends because it added some suspense as you never knew who was going to die. That probably wouldn’t be possible in the ST, but the deaths of side characters like Poe would help declutter the storylines. In Avengers Endgame, while I hate that movie, at least they had snapped away all the side characters and focused on the main guys. Perhaps in the ST, Finn and Rey could go on a spirit journey without anyone else. Or maybe the First Order was holding them hostage. If they were killing side characters, I would prefer it to be something random. Finn is riding the space goats on top of the Star Destroyer and a random stormtrooper shoots him in the face. This would not go down well with some people, but it would certainly add suspense, with the viewer wondering if anybody else would randomly die.
    Just my two cents.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  12. Jayson

    Jayson Resident Lucasian

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2015
    Posts:
    1,989
    Likes Received:
    6,041
    Trophy Points:
    15,567
    Credits:
    7,781
    Ratings:
    +8,803 / 37 / -13
    But keep in mind, deaths in the OT were pushing points that motivated the protagonist forward. They (supporting cast) weren't just deaths to add threat or add a secondary character and then remove them for a net gain of 0 to the overall long-term narrative character juggling weight.

    ANH:
    - Good guys -
    Aunt & Uncle: Forces Luke out into his adventure.
    Ben: Forces Luke to step up.
    (No, I don't count Biggs because unless
    you read crap off screen, we don't care about
    Biggs - he's just a face to put to "threat level
    increased" as far as ANH is concerned.)
    - Bad Guys -
    Tarkin: Luke's success.​
    ESB:
    - Good Guys -
    <tumbleweed>

    - Bad Guys -
    <tumbleweed>
    (Not going to count the Imperial Officers)

    ROTJ:
    - Good Guys -
    Yoda: Forces Luke to stop relying on others.

    - Bad Guys -
    Jabba: Luke comes into his own.
    Emperor: Vader redeemed.
    Vader: Luke at peace.

    Basically, death of even secondary characters in Star Wars has some narrative movement attached to it.

    The main problem there is with the ST, however, is that .... well... look at that list there for the OT.
    There's a common tangent to all of those deaths. Luke's narrative.

    The problem the ST faces is that there's Rey's narrative, but there's also Finn's narrative, and there's also Poe's narrative and we're caring about each in the narrative weight as if they're all a Luke or minor Luke.

    That makes it much harder. Han never had a nemesis that he faced down. Han didn't have a stand off with Jabba. We never saw that.
    Finn has one with Phasma though.

    We never dig into Leia's background and have her ordering people around to their death and focus on her capability as a leader and the struggles that come with it.
    Poe has that, however.

    That is the critical crutch of a difference that makes the ST so dang hard.
    It's trying to write Star Wars as a character driven narrative, and that model employs the method for every character in the cast - not just one, and has the rest support that main thrust. No, in modern style, they all support the film's main topic together as narratives with one of them being the primary narrative focused upon more than the others.

    The OT (and the PT) was written to examine and develop one character. All other characters adjust to support that one character's development, and we don't see deeply into any of those character's narratives to learn their internal struggles and plights.

    The PT dips its toes slightly with Ben and a bit more with Padme, but this was mostly to support the context of Anakin's fall.

    The St slips a bit, to be honest, in this approach because Finn's arc is for Finn. It's not for Rey. Poe's is for Poe. Not Rey.
    And though Ben does a lot to help Rey along in her narrative, ultimately what happens for Ben is for Ben's resolve - not Rey's.
    Only Rey's arc is specifically for Rey.

    Think back to Han's arc in ANH, right?
    It was Han's arc. Sure. But ultimately it was for Luke. He stopped being selfish and began to care about helping others, which resulted in him coming back and saving Luke so Luke could finish his resolve. Leia just stood at a table and looked pensive.

    That's why I think this ST is so insane and amazing, actually.
    Because only a madman would attempt Star Wars with a full cast of character driven narratives!
    Do you want a health problem caused from stress? This is how you cause that!

    It's just mind blowing that it works at all!

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
  13. Angelman

    Angelman Servant of the Whills -- Slave to the Muses
    1030th Grand Admiral ***** (Mod)

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014
    Posts:
    2,645
    Likes Received:
    33,583
    Trophy Points:
    157,967
    Credits:
    16,282
    Ratings:
    +36,599 / 72 / -20
    Which is exactly what I suggested.

    I'm not going to start a whole thing here. I don't have the energy.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  14. Embo and His Pet Anooba

    Embo and His Pet Anooba Force Attuned

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2020
    Posts:
    1,008
    Likes Received:
    8,925
    Trophy Points:
    16,117
    Credits:
    8,583
    Ratings:
    +9,819 / 7 / -5
    I do believe that there could be deaths that show the power of an enemy force. For example, the Yuuzhan Vong were fearsome antagonists because they killed people. The death of Chewbacca in the first book in that series also gave Han conflict with his son, but the main reason was to show that the Yuuzhan Vong were fearsome warriors with unorthodox tactics. For the ST to work character-wise, it would have to be a TV show or a book series. Three movies didn’t give enough time for development.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Jayson

    Jayson Resident Lucasian

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2015
    Posts:
    1,989
    Likes Received:
    6,041
    Trophy Points:
    15,567
    Credits:
    7,781
    Ratings:
    +8,803 / 37 / -13
    I'll re-read again after I've had more coffee. I'm probably missing something. :)

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 2
  16. Use the Falchion

    Use the Falchion Jedi Contrarian

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2015
    Posts:
    2,100
    Likes Received:
    8,760
    Trophy Points:
    87,867
    Credits:
    9,839
    Ratings:
    +10,125 / 25 / -10
    Interesting changes! I like your approach.

    The killing of Poe made me a little sad, but I see the reason behind the move, and sometimes you've got to kill your darlings.

    For your TLJ edits, what's the timeline between Finn leaving with Rose and Finn being left out of important missions? I'm just curious, because if it feels like time hasn't passed, I'm afraid Finn may be seen as a little petulant (although that may be the point).

    I find it funny how in your 20/20 edits TROS is the least changed while in mine, especially in the 4.0 and 4.5 versions, it's the most changed. Where you opted to cut characters, I felt it necessary to add one or two more in.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
  17. radiohare

    radiohare Clone

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2020
    Posts:
    15
    Likes Received:
    29
    Trophy Points:
    12
    Credits:
    101
    Ratings:
    +37 / 0 / -0
    I'd have adapted the already existing post-ROTJ books, comics, games etc. Probably involved their writers too in some capacity. The Yuuzhan Vong could have been so cool. There was also a lot of cool stuff in Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
  18. Angelman

    Angelman Servant of the Whills -- Slave to the Muses
    1030th Grand Admiral ***** (Mod)

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014
    Posts:
    2,645
    Likes Received:
    33,583
    Trophy Points:
    157,967
    Credits:
    16,282
    Ratings:
    +36,599 / 72 / -20
    Thank you :) One's a wannabe writer and tries one's best :p

    Oh, absolutely! Very sad and unfortunate, which is why it could've been a powerful sacrifice and cost to the Resistance victory at Starkiller Base. As is, the cost for taking on Starkiller Base has already been paid (i.e. Hosnian Prime etc.) + a couple extras (X-wing pilots). In addition, Han's death is definitelly a high cost, but that's more a character arc cost for Kylo than a victory cost for the Resistance winning the day.

    Killing Poe would suck, but it could have been pretty powerful (and helped de-clutter the gallery of characters).

    Hm... I haven't thought about it that deeply. But since we're talking about a 2-hour-something movie, the time period would probably be short. And a petulant Finn from which he can evolve into a leader (i.e. Poe's arc) could work well.

    Well, I did rewrite the entire opening of TRoS :p But with Luke and Han out of the way, and with Finn inhereting Poe's Resistance leader arc, I don't think much need fixing in TRoS. Although, this movie is packed TIGHT and I've only seen it a couple of times so I might change my mind about TRoS eventually.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
  19. Use the Falchion

    Use the Falchion Jedi Contrarian

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2015
    Posts:
    2,100
    Likes Received:
    8,760
    Trophy Points:
    87,867
    Credits:
    9,839
    Ratings:
    +10,125 / 25 / -10
    Like how Kylo killed off Lor San Tekka at the beginning of TFA in order to show how ruthless and callus he was? I do think it's a fine line though. I did it in my 4.0 revision (I moved Kor Sella's escape off-screen; Holdo had a scene that took her place and Holdo was killed in an attack on the base), but it's something I feel like we have to be wary of, less we go down the slippery slope of serial escalation.

    @radiohare Welcome to the Cantina!
     
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
  20. Jaxxon

    Jaxxon Green Space Rabbit

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2017
    Posts:
    1,002
    Likes Received:
    13,298
    Trophy Points:
    93,617
    Credits:
    10,569
    Ratings:
    +14,893 / 29 / -4
    If I were writing the Sequel Trilogy, I really would have done something much different. I like what we got, and I'm not saying that my idea is better by any means. But I would have gone totally different.

    Jettison the First Order and the Resistance. The Empire would still have a small presence as a faction with its own territory, as in the Legends timeline. Instead of a Resistance, we focus on the New Republic and the New Jedi Order. This gives us a place from which to fall. Things start in the ideal world we imagined post ROTJ and disintegrate during the first film.

    Other than that, follow somewhat similar lines as Canon, only start the trilogy further back in time.

    Episode VII begins with Leia as the leader of the New Republic, but her political rivals discover that she is Vader's daughter and they make the news public (i.e. Bloodlines by Claudia Gray). This would really set events in motion. The Republic loses faith in Luke and Leia, creating a rift in the Republic and the Jedi Order. Likewise, this is how Ben Solo learns his grandfather's identity, which leaves him feeling disillusioned and betrayed.

    Possibly bring in a Jaina Solo figure, who could do a lot of the same things Rey does. Concentrate on the fact that this is a generational Saga. The "anyone can be a hero" theme is great, but that's not what a Saga does. In mythic literature, a "saga" typically follows a family lineage. Stick to that here.

    Since it's the last trilogy of the Saga, I would base the concept around something super fundamental. Possibly even bring in some of the Father/Daughter/Son mythology in a way that doesn't rely on Clone Wars, so that by the last film it's not just about Jedi vs Sith but about the Light Side vs the Dark Side in their embodied forms.
     
    • Like Like x 2

Share This Page