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Abrams talks on Lucas's treatments

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' started by perrymoon, May 8, 2015.

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Do you think it's right to have changed Lucas's treatments?

  1. Yes, it's a normal part of the process.

    48 vote(s)
    44.9%
  2. Yes, they were probably a disaster

    21 vote(s)
    19.6%
  3. Yes, I trust Kennedy and Abrams

    25 vote(s)
    23.4%
  4. No, I'm affraid of Disney.

    1 vote(s)
    0.9%
  5. No, Abrams will ruin this.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. No, Lucas word should be respected.

    3 vote(s)
    2.8%
  7. I don't care, just give us a great movie.

    9 vote(s)
    8.4%
  1. perrymoon

    perrymoon Rebel General

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    I don't think it had been officially said, but this is (if MSW is right) from the Vanity Fair article:

    <<[Abrams] said Lucas’s treatment had centered on very young characters—teenagers, Lucasfilm told me—which might have struck Disney executives as veering too close for comfort to The Phantom Menace and its 9-year-old Anakin Skywalker and 13-year-old Queen Amidala. “We’ve made some departures” from Lucas’s ideas, Kennedy conceded, but only in “exactly the way you would in any development process.”>>

    Interesting! I think Kennedy is right when talking about development. This is what was done with Empire and Jedi. The difference is that Lucas is not there anymore, but I do prefer the OT development philosophy rather than the PT one.

    [​IMG]
     
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  2. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    I think she was being diplomatic regarding the developmental process. Using teenagers would put a whole different spin on the ST, as it would be reminiscant of the PT instead of the OT.

    It amazes me that Lucas wanted to go that route after it hampered his storytelling in the PT. The younger the characters are, the less character development you can do. TPM suffers because Anakin is a 10 year old kid, so there just isn't much you can do to flesh his character out. They find him, they realize his potential and then that's it. If he were 20 years old in TPM like Luke was in ANH, then you could actually explore the character more and Episode 1 may have been a better movie.

    Thanks god Disney bought Lucasfilm, as Lucas's line of thinking using teenagers again tells me he had no idea what went wrong with the PT.
     
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  3. Charlie07

    Charlie07 Force Attuned

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    Yikes! I'm sorry but the right call was made. Thanks for all the suggestions george but back to your retirement please :D
     
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  4. Jedi MD

    Jedi MD Jedi Commander

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  5. Charlie07

    Charlie07 Force Attuned

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    This was the major issue i had with TPM, george wanted to created an Anakin story yet TPM was not able to run with anakin as the lead, so it just became such an aimless story that created probably the stupidest "bet/wager" in movie history with that watto and Qui-Gon scene, just to bring anakin into the story line.
    TPM literally does not have a lead character because of how he wanted to tell one story.
     
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  6. ChrisI

    ChrisI Force Sensitive

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    I wouldn't have minded TPM even with younger actors telling the same story but Jake was probably not the best option. I actually liked one of the other kids from the screen test from the behind the scenes doc. I don't know if Lucas' dialogue was that much worse than the OT but the actors just didn't have any life or character; with a handful of exceptions of course. Unfortunately, two of the leads (Hayden and Natalie) just didn't work and there really was no chemistry on-screen with them. Even the behind the scenes stuff didn't seem to show much fire between them. We'll see how TFA pans out but just from all the behind the scenes and social media stuff from Daisy and John, it seems they genuinely had a good time and got along well.
     
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  7. ChrisI

    ChrisI Force Sensitive

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    Sometimes we need to be saved from ourselves. It was time. George created the universe and for that I'm appreciative, but it was time to pass the baton.
     
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  8. MasterCrash

    MasterCrash Rebelscum

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    Y'know, as much as people bash George, we have to give him credit for creating Star Wars. Star Wars would have never existed if Lucas never created it. But, with that being said, some of his newer ideas are pretty bad to say the least. I would think he would've learned his lesson with the PT that audiences just don't want to see a Star Wars movie that has a cast of very young characters that is aimed primarily at children. I'm glad to see Disney showing George some respect, they are going to make billions off of his concept after all, but I'm also glad to see that they aren't afraid to reject some of his ideas.
     
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  9. perrymoon

    perrymoon Rebel General

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    I'm sad that Jake Lloyd is always blamed for this. He wasn't a bad actor for his age, not at all. The movie could have started with him watching a the royal ship landing in the desert or whatever. Point of view matters. Also, making him darker from the beginning (still don't understand why they cut the scene where he fights Greedo) and jumping to adulthood at the midpoint of the movie would have helped. I'm not saying this had to be exactly like this, but I think something in that direction would have worked.
    And with all due respect to Liam Neeson and his great performance in the movie, frankly I think that Qui Gon is such a useless character in this story.

    Oh wait, this was about The Force Awakens right? Sorry!

    So... yes, I just hope TFA will be character-wise. Everything seems to evoque it will.
     
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  10. ChrisI

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    You bring up good points, I especially like the idea of the first half of the film showing young Anakin and then a jump forward to seeing him a bit older. That would have made me enjoy the film a little more and there would have maybe been more time to focus on the Anakin/Obi Wan relationship throughout the next two films.
     
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  11. Rebo

    Rebo Nearsighted Whill Guardian
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    Child actors are generally dependent on the director. Case in point, watch how much the Harry Potter actors progress between the second and third movie, going from Columbus to Cauron. Its like night and day. And George, was never a great actor's director. The actors were pretty much on their own through Star Wars history, which is why you see such hit and miss acting throughout the films. with rare exceptions, a child actor will almost never bring a great performance to the table, it needs to be drawn out of them. And George didn't seem interested in that aspect of directing.

    So, all that being said, I don't necessarily disagree with George's idea to go with teens in the ST. But if he had directed them, I'm not optimistic it would have turned out too well. In the end, they went with the far safer route of having young adults in the leads. It balances the youth needed to capture the imagination of the youngest viewers, while also having the acting chops to make for a believable story.
     
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  12. Charlie07

    Charlie07 Force Attuned

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    I'm not actually aiming that post at Jake, far from it. It was George Lucas that didn't know what he was doing, its not Jakes fault that Lucas created an unworkable story for TPM, Jake was just the unlucky bastard that got stuck with it.
     
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  13. perrymoon

    perrymoon Rebel General

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    Thanks for this Jedi MD!

    From the article:

    <<The writing process apparently was somewhat tortured, with the Little Miss Sunshine screenwriter Michael Arndt making a first attempt but ultimately failing to pull together a script in time. As of early November 2013, the studio walls and whiteboards were filled with ideas, but the actual narrative hadn't been set in place. Abrams and the Empire Strikes Back/Return of the Jedi co-writer Lawrence Kasdan took over, starting from something very close to scratch. “We didn’t have anything,” Kasdan told Handy. “There were a thousand people waiting for answers on things, and you couldn’t tell them anything except, ‘Yeah, that guy’s in it.’ That was about it. That was really all we knew.” The two men then hashed out the story in conversations as they walked around Santa Monica, New York City, London, and Paris, and kept refining the script even as production began.>>

    Finally we get some information on the script crisis. I wish this will turn on a amazing Making of.

    [​IMG]
     
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  14. Jedi MD

    Jedi MD Jedi Commander

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    George Lucas can be compared to any great athlete. In his prime he was awesome. There were not many better. Just like as an elite athlete ages and loses a step, so did George. That does not take away from his greatness and what he accomplished. He created the world of Star Wars. A great world we and millions of others love to this day. We are all grateful. But like any great athlete it is time to step away and that is what George has done. Now it's time for someone else to take over and continue the great legacy George created.
     
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  15. The_Coon

    The_Coon Rebelscum

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    looksl ike just what I was starting to think is now confirmed

    all they did was change a few characters around
     
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  16. Rebo

    Rebo Nearsighted Whill Guardian
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    it actually says quite the opposite. JJ and Kasdan started from scratch.
     
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  17. ChillySCR

    ChillySCR Rebelscum

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    He would have messed it up for sure, Lucas seems obsessed with constantly wanting to bring new fans into Star Wars but the truth is you don't need to pander to small children to gain their interest. I was waaay younger than luke when i first saw star wars but i still related to him and enjoyed his story.. you don't need him to be 10 years olf for 7 year old me to relate to him. and as people have said before theres not much you can do with child actors if you want their story to develop over several films.

    TPM was a waste of a film as Anakin does almost nothing in the first film (apart from accidentally winning a war) it should have started with him being 16-18.. and thus being truly "too old to begin the training" a moody, dark and dangerous teenager.. but incredibly strong in the force and un-ignorable by Qui-Gon.
     
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  18. Jedi MD

    Jedi MD Jedi Commander

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    Hindsight is 20/20 but I agree. TPM would have been much better with an older Anakin. AoTC could then have focused more on the actual Clone Wars and Anakin's badass skills and ROS showing his fall.
     
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  19. ChrisI

    ChrisI Force Sensitive

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    Which I think they decided to work from scratch. They had Lucas' outlines and Arndt's partial script (assuming he turned something in). They must have really not liked anything and thought it would be easier for them to just throw it all out and start over.
     
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  20. Rebo

    Rebo Nearsighted Whill Guardian
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    My guess ( and its complete speculation) Arndt probably wrote a good quality first draft based off Lucas's treatment as a test to see how the story would play out (and as a courtesy to George). JJ and Kathy read it and got cold feat because it reminded them too much of the prequels. Arndt a little miffed at wasting so much time and needing to move onto othep rojects probably said he'd rather not start over so JJ and Kasdan took it over.
     
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