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SPECULATION How can J.J. make this a satisfying trilogy for the majority of fans?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by Grand Admiral Kraum, Jan 15, 2018.

  1. Background Character

    Background Character Rebel Official

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    It was made because he couldn't get the rights to Flash Gordon.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 16, 2018 ---
    What makes you the arbiter of what Star Wars is "supposed to be?" Do you think that Star Wars should match your own personal tastes and concept of where the story goes? How amazingly self-centered. Define specifically what you mean by "political correctness" and politics being incorporated in this trilogy? Even after Lucas was up front about the original trilogy being influenced by the Nixon White House and Vietnam, and the prequels being influenced by the Bush Administration. Yet now, for some reason, these movies suddenly need to be a-political? Give me a break.
     
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  2. Grand Admiral Kraum

    Grand Admiral Kraum Force Sensitive

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    Even if he did end up doing Flash Gordon, he probably would have come up with his own original mainstream sci fi/fantasy later.

    Lucas has since said (in the 60 minutes interview last year) that he didn't really want to do Flash Gordon anyway.. it would have limited him creatively and it lacked some of the extra elements he wanted to include in his next film. There was a big chance he might have pulled out and done his own thing anyway.
     
    #22 Grand Admiral Kraum, Jan 16, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2018
  3. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    I think if JJ can somehow tie Rey and Kylo Ren together with some theme in terms of the Force (Light and Dark) in a satisfying way that sort of sums up the 9 movies, then I think many naysayers may give this Trilogy a second look. I think TLJ was the dividing line as you either accepted Luke, the Death of Snoke, Random Rey, or you didn't like it. If JJ changes those plot points to appease the naysayers then he risks alienating the fans who liked TLJ.

    But if he can find a theme regarding the Force and somehow tie Rey and Kylo Ren together at the end (I'm not meaning love interests), more on an macro level of the force, then fans can go back and watch the Trilogy in that context. I know the Matrix Revolutions wasn't well received by the public, but the ending sort of ties together the philosophy of the movies along with Neo and does give a satisfactory ending. I'd be happy if JJ can accomplish that with Episode 9.
     
  4. stencil

    stencil Rebel General

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    For me and I dare say for most people, the sequel trilogy doesn't need fixing. The best thing JJ can do is not listen to Star Wars fans and instead make the best movie he can. If Disney start making movies based on what the "superfans" want, I'm outta here.

    But we fans are entitled to discuss where we want things to go, so let's do that!


    1. Throw out the "Rey's parents are junkers" thing, make her a Skywalker or Kenobi. There needs to be some kind of genetic explanation for her abilities.. and why she heard Obi Wan in the flashback. Please please please no! I really think this would ruin these films.
    2. Make Kylo back into the intimidating villain he was in the first act of TFA. Make him completely irredeemable in the first act.. bring back the helmet and have him being badass again. The best parts of the new trilogy have been when Adam Driver is acting without the helmet on. I do agree that he should grow into an intimidating villain though. Even if he eventually has some kind of redemption, it should at best end up in him "walking into the sunset" like Kasdan's original plan for Luke Skywalker.
    3. Hux needs to be killed off in the first 10 minutes. The Last Jedi turned him into a joke in my opinion.. I don't think he's a great choice as the new second main villain. I don't think he's intended to be a main villain and has never been presented as such. But killing him off is bound to happen in Ep 9.
    4. Bring in the Knights of Ren in the first act to support Kylo as the sole villain of the film. Make what Rey saw into a vision of the future. A major conflict involving Rey, Kylo and The Knights Of Ren can be the big action sequence of the film. I agree that I would like to see the Knights of Ren in Ep9. And I want to see them to be real people, not just bosses for the good guys to fight and kill.
    5. Keep Luke heavily involved in the plot, take advantage of the new force ghost rules (established by the Yoda scene in TLJ) and have Luke interact physically with Rey while she trains on the island at the start. If Yoda was able to hit Luke on the head.. maybe they can spar in some way? Yes, lots of Luke please. But all of his training should be about the spiritual and non-combat aspects of the Force. Luke's greatest victory was throwing away his lightsaber in RotJ and I never felt it suited his character to pick it back up again and start dismembering bad guys.
    6. Give us a couple of great flashback scenes to Luke battling Snoke, The Knights of Ren or someone else.. we didn't get enough action with Luke. Don't make them 30 seconds long, give us a good drawn out action sequence involving Luke in his prime. I still don't like flashbacks in Star Wars films and I don't want to see that. But I'm not gonna lie, more Luke is always better.
    7. Don't make a CGI Carrie Fisher a major part of the film, unless it really can be done subtley and properly. Please no CGI Carrie. Please no re-cast of Leia. Probably best thing to do is just start the movie with her funeral. Poe can give a touching eulogy and we can all mourn with the characters.
    8. Have Snoke survive in some way to show how powerful and scary he is. Maybe he transferred his consciousness into Kylo Ren? No.
    Okay, so we don't agree on a lot. But I like to hear perspectives from "the other side". Thanks!
     
    #24 stencil, Jan 16, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2018
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  5. DarthSnow

    DarthSnow Sith in the North
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  6. HothLeia

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    1. More practical effects and costumes! Keep 'em coming. Use CGI for character actions/effects more than full characters.

    2. Show the Original 3 together in some way, whether Force Ghosts, hologram flashback...something.

    3. NO political commentary, lectures, or pretentious overtones. NONE. I want to be in a galaxy far, far, away, not at a college coffee house in 2018. Let's get back to universal themes.

    4. I want to see Rey's flaws, weaknesses and struggles. Give this character the development she deserves.

    5. I want to see Rey, Finn, and Poe teamed up TOGETHER for a good chunk of screen time.

    6. More nostalgic nods and cameos. Lando?? Obi-wan?? Revisit one of the OT planets?

    7. Force Ghost Luke utilizes the new "physical" Force Ghost rules established in TLJ. I imagine Force Ghost Luke, who is probably a little more at peace- might show us the lighter side of old Luke and the type of master he was before his fall.

    8. Respectful handling of Her Majesty's Great Matter...Leia's death must be treated with respect and creativity. It shouldn't be discarded, but must be woven into the story in a way that enhances the plot and still gives her character a big presence without the use of CGI (and showing the impact of the character's passing if they choose to have her die.)

    9. I'm sorry, Rey needs to be explained. I get the concept/theme but I don't like the nobody revelation because of all the build-up in TFA. Maybe she is indeed a nobody, but there NEEDS to be an explanation for her extreme Force powers. It doesn't have to be a Skywalker or Obi-wan thing. There are many reasons why she could have this gift. Get creative if you need to, but there has to be more to her.

    10. Finally, give us a feel-good ending that leaves the audience cheering, no more major character deaths for Game of Thrones shock value. I want Finn, Rey, and Poe to survive the film. Luke and Han were enough with a possible Leia death mention at the beginning. There was a lot of good things going on in the previous installments, but I want to feel the magical SW ending satisfaction I remember from ANH and ROTJ.
     
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  7. Luke-saber

    Luke-saber Rebelscum

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    Easy. An epic space battle, and an epic Lightsaber fight!

    As to your points:
    1. How about a compromise. Make Rey and Luke related... through being 'chosen' by the Force. They share a bond through their exceptional level of force power.
    2. I agree, they need to solidify his position as the ultimate evil in the galaxy. But...(see 4)
    3. Disagree. Kylo is a great warrior, but a tactician he is not. Hux is needed to keep the First Order in... order.
    4. Agree. There has to be more targets for the (hopefully) reinforced Rebellion to go after in IX. The Knights of Ren, along with a Phasma-type champion, would be great.
    5. I would like to see Luke impart wisdom along the same lines as Obi-wan in ESB and ROTJ. However, I think Rey has to find her own way. She is 'all we need', she just has to believe in herself. And read the Sacred Texts.
    6. No. Let the past die! I agree that I wish we could have seen Luke in all his real-life glory, but sadly there is no longer room/time for that.
    7. Agreed. In fact, I think they should put her demise in the opening crawl. We all know that she's gone! And this allows the movie to focus on the new characters.
    8. Disagree. Snoke is a story for another time.
     
    #27 Luke-saber, Jan 16, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2018
  8. TheBBP

    TheBBP Jedi Commander

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    If he tries to make it satisfying for the most people, he will get blasted for "playing it safe"... even while a lot of fans really only want him to play it safe, as we have seen with the reaction of some with TLJ. He can't win so he should just make the movie that he wants to make as Rian Johnson did.
     
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  9. Snazel

    Snazel Force Sensitive

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    I don't know how to say it without being a jerk, so I'll just say it: I'm really glad some of you are not in charge of story treatments.

    I don't understand the obsession to make everything fit into a neat little box. It's a fairy tale, ultimately Star Wars is a fairy tale. If it can't be well understood by a 10-year old boy or girl, then the story is weak, convoluted and uninteresting.

    The point of Star Wars is not to deliver a perfectly round summary of a galaxy's history, it's point it to deliver an adventure story that makes our our hearts sore.

    I like some of the novels, but the novels are not there to influence the films, the films are there to influence the novels. The same goes with the cartoons.

    Sure, you'll get a "bone" thrown your way, like a compass, or a location, but you can't expect dozens of comics, novels and cartoon and 9 films to all come together to form a perfect soup with all questions answered.

    Star Wars doesn't work like that and it doesn't appeal to audiences much either when you try to incorporate way too much lore and sacrifice agility and simplicity in the process.

    Star Wars Episode IX will focus on a growing rebellion that's rising in the poor quadrants and the slaves of the galaxy. Rey is becoming a legend. Meanwhile Kylo Ren, obsessed with finding Rey and converting her to be his apprentice scours the galaxy to snuff out the light of the rising rebellion.

    After that basic set up, we'll get a basic Star Wars movie that probably ends with the death of all Skywalker relatives (bye, bye Ben Solo) and the promise of a "new era" in the galaxy as the last remnants of the Skywalker legacy are put to rest.

    That's it, that's the film we're going to get. The pedantic details of how you get there are so utterly unimportant. Unimportant because none of the fussy details proposed here really effect the quality of the story, they don't make us laugh or our hearts filled with joy, all it does is make these films more like an encyclopedia than a story.

    I am not trying to rain on your parade either, by all means peddle your theories of how the Force works, or why the Whills, or the Midichlorians or the history of Aquilae and Sullust are going to be integral to the story. I know its fun and this forum is all about fun speculation like that. But I will also say, that none of that interests your average movie goer. And none of that is what makes Star Wars great.

    I'll go further, the best Star Wars film are relatively simple and light in their plot and very heavy in their character development. Large, complicated plots with too many twists and turns are cumbersome and dull, compared to a film that makes you laugh and cheer because you fall in love with the characters on the screen.

    The best thing JJ can do with Episode IX is ignore the pressure to tie up all loose ends. After all, loose ends just provide more opportunity for the franchise to expand and grow. His best plan is to stay true to the arcs of Rey, Kylo and the plight of the rebellion, as it rises from Luke Skywalker's legendary last stand on Crait, bringing with it a sense of hope among all who are oppressed.

    I hope that despite the fact this post is dissonant to the spirit of the thread, that my point is well received, because I don't think it's expressed enough: the details do NOT MATTER. They never did. They never will. It's the feelings in your heart that matter more than the database of trivia packed inside our heads. You aren't supposed to think much during a Star Wars film, you are supposed to feel and ultimately the core feeling of any good Star Wars family is that if you have enough faith in your friends, if you have hope despite the fact all around is despair, then magic begins to happen.

    That's it, that's what Star Wars is all about: believing you can overcome anything as long as their is love in your heart.

    It's a film franchise about hope and so the best thing JJ can do with Episode IX is to make a film that makes us all believe that is good in life comes from hope and not hate.

    I'd love these threads more if they talked about theme, character and feeling more than who or what is connected to Plagueis and whether "Operation Ressurection" from some awful video game will be a central plot point.
     
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  10. Boss Vos

    Boss Vos Rebel Official

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    Well, for starters:

    1. Have a time jump of at least 1 year between TLJ and IX.

    2. Start the film with Rey, Finn and Poe on an adventure/mission, showing the three of them being FRIENDS and having fun - the new big 3 we were promised.

    3. Cut down Rose's role to just a few scenes, no more than Jar Jar's role in AOTC.

    4. For once in the ST, show us some political scenes so that we can make sense of what's going on in the galaxy. Have some Resistance leaders discuss battle strategy or something with a group of representatives from other systems. Let them talk about the First Order and what's happening in the galaxy right now and how they can stop them. Very simple.

    5. Give us NEW ships! Heck, this is your chance Disney. You want to celebrate diversity? What better to show that than to have various systems coming to the Resistance's aid, fighting the First Order together with 10-15 different types of ship fleets. Just do it.

    6. Rey has started a Jedi Order on Jakku, and Luke's Force Ghost will be there to guide her and the students. There will be like 10 students, that sounds plausible. Including broom boy.

    7. Make Snoke into Plagueis and have him not be "really dead" and the only way to truly kill him will be to destroy the source in which his soul still rests: Moraband, maybe. Will be a bit like Voldemort and the Horcruxes but who cares, some sort of tension has to be created. Perhaps Kylo and Rey can even do it together. Heck, maybe the final battle of the film should take place on Moraband. Destroy the evil of the galaxy - completely.

    7. Connect all trilogies. Bring in droid armies again to fight the First Order. Have Hayden return as a Force Ghost. Etc, etc.

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. TheBBP

    TheBBP Jedi Commander

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    Snoke is dead and there is no real reason to bring him back. The story is now about the revival of Hope. The ending of TLJ insinuated a galaxy of heroes rising up and led by Finn, Rey and Poe to bring the First Order down. Kylo is the new big bad.
     
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  12. Boss Vos

    Boss Vos Rebel Official

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    I actually just wanted a reason for them to go to Moraband, but I'm sure that can be arranged in another way.
     
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  13. HothLeia

    HothLeia Rebel Official

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    Agreed. I definitely don't want Snoke Surprise in the new one. It will just muddle up the new themes and potential storylines established at the end of TLJ. I want Kylo to have real accountability for his actions and choices. In fact, I am very curious to see what happens to his character without Snoke's influence. This will be much more interesting than a rehash of Palp/Vader. Snoke's return puts too much influence on Ren. I want to see who he really is, unleashed.
     
  14. Big Daddy Dave

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    I don't think anything JJ or ANY director does can make this a satisfying trilogy. The very best he can do is make a great movie and end this turd on a high note.

    The bad guy side is pretty light on villains right now. They just have Kylo Ren and Hux. And Hux is now relegated to comedy relief. I'd bring in the Knights of Ren as the henchmen of the movie, like any Bond villain has a good henchman, the KOR can do the heavy lifting for Kylo.

    Luke will appear as a force ghost, but should NOT appear for more than one scene. Two tops. The whole point of the 'killing the master trope' is to ensure the young hero has to save the day on their own, with no help from their teacher other than a bit of last minute advice. See Lion King or Star Wars for that one. They have already turned Rey into a complete Mary Sue, I'd rather JJ salvage some of that and at least TRY to show her on the end of a half hearted attempt at a hero's journey.

    Do a 2-5 year jump between movies, and reveal Leia's passing in the opening crawl, as if she died several years ago from the characters' point of view. Poe should become the leader during the movie but not already BE the leader when we open. Give him a little wiggle room for a character arc in the film.

    I would have Kylo die in the end unredeemed, but still have enough of a connection with him and Rey that she tries to save him. My hope is that she gets pregnant during the movie so the Skywalker bloodline can continue down the line in some future trilogy. IMO, if Rey isn't going to BE a Skywalker, she can still be of value by getting knocked up and PRODUCING one.
     
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  15. Mitch Pelon

    Mitch Pelon Rebelscum

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    You know, I was right with you up until the end there. Rey's value, if she isn't a Skywalker herself is to have Skywalker babies??????? Holy crap you're looking for trouble.

    Actually, sociologists have found that educating women and giving women in impoverished nations financial/humanitarian relief is more beneficial than doing the same for men. Women are better at paying it forward. Rey, as a woman, is better suited to rebuilding the Jedi Order than Luke was. Statistically speaking.
     
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    I'm here for the Skywalker saga. If she's not a Skywalker, Rey's suddenly a lot less interesting to me. Especially after her Mary Sue-ness reaches all new levels in TLJ. I feel like the saga literally NEEDS to end with her knocked up with Ben's child to not paint themselves into a corner for a future trilogy.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 16, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 16, 2018 ---
    I'd like to see Rey at the end of IX as a Jedi, starting a new Jedi temple with a crop of new students and a camera shot at a baby bump as a nod to the future . Poe as the leader of the rebellion. I'm not sure what Finn's endgame should be. His arc seemed to be complete in TLJ so I'm not sure what that they will do with him. He really can't have the same endgame as Poe.
     
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  17. TheBBP

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    [​IMG]
     
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  18. Boushhdisguise

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    Just live in the OT then. This is pretty misogynist to think she is only valuable if she's "Knocked up" if she's not a Skywalker.
     
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  19. Big Daddy Dave

    Big Daddy Dave Rebelscum

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    Misogynist? Nah, not at all.

    I mean, she's going to HAVE to be the Jedi Master by the end of the movie to restart the Jedi academy, and I want that. But what other reason COULD there be making her a nobody than to give a way for the Skywalker bloodline to continue? If she isn't going to BE a Skywalker, then she is going to have to pop one out of her. They telegraphed that one a mile away with her growing connection to Ben. This is the Skywalker saga. Who else is Ben going to carry on the line with? Rose?
     
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  20. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    Have the majority of fans submit all their wonderful wishlist items and make that into a movie. After that crashes and burns, he can get back to his true passion: hit-or-miss Star Trek movies!
     
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