In defense of Starkiller Base

Exactly.
It's not like the First Order just built another Death Star, unlike what the Empire were doing in Return of the Jedi.
The First Order redesigned it almost entirely from the ground up. It lacks the weaknesses of it's predecessors. Had it not been for Han and Chewie's infiltration, in which they lowered the shields and demolished of one of the oscillator's structural support columns, the Resistance would have failed to destroy it.

I have no issue with the First Order building this... I just have issues with it's operation and it's function within the plot.

How exactly did 3 people manage to sabotage a base housing tens of thousands of armed stormtroopers? I would think that they would have put up a better defence, even with the distractions of the aerial assault and the escaped Force sensitive scavenger.

 

I thought it was a great weapon, I just thought the first order would have had more star destroyers to guard it, they surely must have learned from that two times before.

 

Well, they had just destroyed the majority of the Republic fleet, eliminating any real threat, as Starkiller had also designed to be impervious to a star fighter assault.
The Empire had a massive fleet at the 2nd Death Star, and it didn't make a difference.

What the First Order actually needed, was better base security.
If they had stopped Han and Finn from disabling the shields and sabotaging the oscillator, the Resistance fighters would never have been able to get inside to destroy it.

Seriously, what happened to all the stormtroopers who were there for Hux's speech?

 

They must have died on it sure the starkiller base crew went into a panic when Hux fled.

 

Obviously... but where were they all before the place started falling apart? Where were they all when Rey was on the loose, or Finn, Han, and Chewie got the shields powered down? Where were they when Finn and Rey were off doing whatever they were doing, while Han and Chewie were setting the explosives?

Is the real issue perhaps that Starkiller was so large, that it was too difficult to guard? Was it too easy for intruders to sneak around without being detected?

 

These are my criticisms. I have received no answer on the subject...

 

Well what stuck out to me is that while people see that JJ is copying elements from the previous films they are overlooking the explination obvious in the film. Its why the Stormtroopers look the same, why the kept Tie designs, why they are okay with a robed fearsome above the law operative. The 1st Order wants to be seen as the second coming of the empire.

 

Stars "create" most of the energy by nuclear fusion. Nuclear fusion will stop after some parameters that change through the process (star's mass mainly) won't allow the fusion to happen. At that point the star will stop shining but it will still have a big mass. So after the weapon consumes the star's energy there will still be a star there that will condition the gravity around. Now, I don't know what exactly is the process that is used in the movie, but if the starkiller just uses the star's energy then you shouldn't think as "there is no more star OMG BLACK HOLE" but as "the star stopped shining, there will be consequences but not that tragic considering near planets have already blown up and that it's still a movie afterall".

 

Yes that might be the case but really they should have thought of that instead of the attacking approach the defensive approach should also have been considered, this pic shows a few landing craft could have made it down there for a few pick ups, who knows what happened.

 

Yeah...that's a tricky concept for me to grasp. In the movie, it looks like Starkiller Base doesn't just suck the energy from the sun, it sucks up all the matter leaving you with just empty space.

 

where is Stephen Hawking when we need him ;-)

 

Starkiller has a number of narrative functions in TFA:

- Starkiller as a narrative space: in act three it functions as an evil castle (the code name actually was Evil Castle) from which the main protagonist (Rey) must escape and where the anciliary leads (Han, Chewie, Finn, Poe) must faciliate that escape. This is the main plotline in act 3. The attack on Starkiller base is ancillary to the main story and a reflection of the events taking place on the surface.
- Starkiller and the power of the first order: as a space, starkiller base is set up to portray the first order as more powerfull than the empir. It is also meant to show the atrocity of the first order and how it affects the protagonists, antagonists, victims, perpetrators and observers. It is also portrayed as the natural home of the first order as reflected in the colour patterns used in the third act.
- Starkiller and the atmosphere of the three acts: The first act takes place in a hot and very light space which reflects the emotional tone of the first act. The second act takes place on a lush green world, with a temperate climate. In the third act the emotional tone is much darker and desparate. Subsequently, the third act takes place on a snowplanet which is very dark and very cold.
- Starkiller as a symbolical space: "as long as there is light we have a chance." The fate of Starkiller base reflects the different fates of the main protagonist and antagonist.

I think Starkiller is much better executed as a narrative space than the first and second deathstar.

 

I mostly agree... except the Death Star in the first film was more central to their respective plots, particularly the first movie, which comes together because of it.
As such, when the First Death Star destroys Alderaan, it has greater impact in the plot than Starkiller destroying the Hosnian system does.
In the words of Tarkin "[The Hosnian system] is too remote (in the plot of the film) to make an effective demonstration."

So essentially, I think Starkiller worked a lot better than the second Death Star... but not quite as well as the first.

 

Then perhaps "this will start to make things right". The plot of A New Hope revolved around stolen datatapes in an R2 unit which could be used to destroy the deathstar. For this plotpoint to work (closure) the deathstar had to be destoyed by means of the information stored in the droid. The main protagonist, Luke, then has an instrumental role in destroying the deathstar which also reveals his secret powers.

In the force awakens, the plot revolves around secret information concering Luke's whereabouts - and ultimately Rey's belonging. Ren captures Rey because she has seen the map and might reveal Luke's secret location. He tortures and interrogates her in his 'evil castle', but Rey eventually manages to escape. The succes of that escape is mirrored by the succes of the resistance pilots in knocking out the Oscilator. In any case, what matters is that Rey's capture and escape from starkiller base are essential to how the starkiller base itself functions as a space in the movie. It is not a space primarily designed for a battle narrative, but is designed instead for an escape narrative. Many people fail to see this when they blatently compare TFA to ANH. The battle and destruction of starkiller base are really not that important to the plot, as J.J. Abrams himself has recently stated. What matters is the fate of the characters on the surface. Rey's succesful escape and feat of arms on the surface of Starkiller reveals her secret powers and identity, just as Luke's secret powers were revealed when he destroyed the deathstar. If Rey does not escape, she cannot go to Luke and the place where she belongs. As such, starkiller base is the proverbial 'gateway' or 'hurdle' Rey needs to pass to gain access to her identity and belonging which both dependent on the fulfilment of the main plot point of the movie: finding Luke (again closure)

So all in all, the starkiller base is just as central to the plot of the force awakens as the deathstar is to the plot of a new hope. The key to understanding both spaces it that they both have a different function to 'quest-objectives' which are quite dissimilar. Again the main plotpoint of A New Hope: destoying the deathstar. The main plotpoint of The Force Awakens: finding luke. Each space, each in its own way, provides closure to the respective plotline in which they are included. I hope this settles things.

 

The big difference for me is that in ANH, it is the Death Star that brings everyone together.
Luke meets R2-D2 and C-3PO, because of the Death Star.
They meet Obi-Wan Kenobi, because of the Death Star.
They find Han and Chewie, because of the Death Star.
They rescue Leia, because of the Death Star.
Obi-Wan faces against Vader, because of the Death Star.
Luke and Han are established as heroes, because of the Death Star.

I feel like the Starkiller takes away from the actual search for Luke. Had it turned out that the First Order had Luke imprisoned on Starkiller, and were using him to somehow power the weapon, things probably would have worked a little better.

 

What about in th defense of "rehashes" ?

 

Well if Rey does not escape starkiller, and does not resist Kylo Ren, the latter will find Luke. Because she escapes the 'prison' that is starkiller base, she is able to find Luke (and hence r2d2 reactivates, but only when Rey enters the same story space). I think that in your argument you place too much emphasis on the starkiller base as a weapon, and too little attention to the actual relevance of starkiller, as a narrative space, for the protagonist and closure of the main plot objective. Starkiller and deathstar each worked in their own way to provide closure for the narratives in which they were included. Starkiller also brings everything together but in quite a different way to the deathstar in a new hope (see my argument above). On the one hand Rey does not have an interest in the destruction of the starkiller base. But on the other hand the attack on - and destruction of starkiller base do provide opportunities to easy her escape and her eventual goal of finding Luke. Chewie, Finn and Han help her escape, each in their own way. But they wouldn't have been there if no attack was organized on Starkiller. These are complex storytelling techniques which are far above the level of Lucas' writing for A New Hope. Abrams and companions have inverted the 'super weapon' theme in the service of Rey's character development which is much more central to the story of The Force Awakens, than the death star was to Luke's story in A New Hope. Starkiller helps reveal Rey's true identity and connection to the missing Luke. In A New Hope, the weapon, in having to reveal hidden aspects or characteristcs of Luke, was just a fancy trope with hardly any new relevance for the actual story of Luke as the main protagonist. It was redundant at best. For instance, even without the deathstar, Lucas had already revealed by means of Obi Wan in act 1 and 2 that Luke had an important lineage and that he could use the force (the lightsaber training). This inclusion meant that the deathstar revealed nothing new about Luke's actual powers or character. His destruction of the deathstar merely strengthened Lucas' insertion of Luke as a force user. Luke's dumb fire hardly was a surprise and as a scene it lacked suspense. Everything else revealed about Lukein Empire and Jedi about Luke is retrospective and can only be retrojected back on the plot of a New Hope. Furthermore, as you said, the story of a New Hope revolves around the destruction of the deathstar. Luke did destroy the deathstar and completed the main plotline, but it did not reveal anything new about Luke's character. Contrary to this, Starkiller as a narrative space was organized in such a way that it did reveal Rey's hidden powers, because those powers were necessary for a succesful escape from her imprisoner. Only if she escape can she find Luke and her true belonging (an objective that is in fact provided by Maz Kanata after Rey finds the lightsaber). Again, read my complete post above. As a narrative space the deathstar in a new hope is a complete mess when you interpret it as space with relevance to the progression of the protagonist. As a narrative space, Starkiller functioned way better.

As you might notice, I discuss Star Wars the way I discuss a medieval text for my job. I interpret a text or movie with so-called narrative theory because it is the only functional medium that allows one to uncover and interpret the author/writer/director's intention. It always works, especially with Star Wars movies which, I must say, do not offer the most complex narrative sequences. Nevertheless, I have given you a wise master Yoda for the effort.