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Is the relative age of Gleeson and Driver a plot point?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' started by Chairman Kaga, Jun 29, 2015.

  1. Chairman Kaga

    Chairman Kaga Rebel Official

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    I was watching some clips from this year's South by Southwest red carpet recently, with Domnhall Gleeson dodging questions about TFA, and it occurred to me he and Adam Driver are really young. Gleeson in particular looks like a kid, especially in Frank and Deus Ex.

    So these guys who could pass for 20-somethings in other films are essentially the leaders of the First Order. Granted there's Snoke at the top of the pyramid, but The General and Kylo Ren appear to be the leading military commanders in the field.

    That's interesting.

    In the OT films at least, you had Tarkin, who was not just a military genius but also extremely experienced over many decades. Same with Vader. If The General and Kylo Ren are more or less analogous to that pairing, then there could be some significant component of the story we're still missing with regard to the fact they're both so young yet so powerful.
     
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  2. Johnny Thunder

    Johnny Thunder Rebel General

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    I think it will factor in some way but it keeps with the overall idea of this movie: The passing of the torch. The original three are handing over the reins to Fin, Rey and Poe. Finn and Rey are like Luke and Leia and Poe a bit older like Han. The empire lost its most senior leadership in Palpatine, Vader and Tarkin so someone has to step up. It's been 30 years since things went pear-shaped for the Empire so the young people we're seeing in charge now have taken over from whomever took over after ROTJ.
     
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  3. Chairman Kaga

    Chairman Kaga Rebel Official

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    Well, right. But I guess logically I'd expect the senior leadership to be people who are at least 40-50 years old and who were around during the actual reign of the Empire. The General and Kylo Ren are both likely in their 20s, so they weren't even born until at least 10 or 15 years after the fall of the Emperor.

    I'm just curious as to why they're SO young. Are they sort of child-genius warriors a la Ender's Game? Or maybe being manipulated by Snoke like Hitler Youth? Or some sort of tactical masterminds like Alexander the Great x2? I just think there might be more to their youth than just passing the torch.
     
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  4. odmichael

    odmichael Rebel Official

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    I've thought about and mentioned this in other posts before. Great thread! What you're about to read is all speculation, no proof.

    I believe that the leaders of this First Order are young because these young people have only lived in a world without an Empire. Their views are one-sided due to being so young. I believe that post-empire, many systems went poor because their money was no good and underground crime prospered because the Empire was not there to maintain them. These kids lived in hell holes all of their lives and they have slowly united to what is the First Order - a group that is essentially anti-Republic because the senates have done nothing to help them the past 30 years because in a Republic, it takes time to pass laws and have them come into effect. They are radical. But they are also naive because Snoke likely has a bigger agenda.
     
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  5. Grand Admiral Kraum

    Grand Admiral Kraum Force Sensitive

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    Their characters will almost certainly be in the their 20s, everyone is 10 years younger in Hollywood remember ;)
     
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  6. Chairman Kaga

    Chairman Kaga Rebel Official

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    I'm still very much leaning toward an analog with ISIL and Al Qaeda. The OG Star Wars was in a way about the Cold War and totalitarian regime of the USSR. Of course the Nazis and other fascist regimes also played into the characterizations. But what we THINK we know about a cult of Vader, that Kylo is "finishing what you started" and not just keeps Vader's charred helmet but allegedly talks to it... radicalized "holy warriors" really might describe what the First Order is about, and also keep with holding to some real-world foundation.
     
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  7. WedgeSalad

    WedgeSalad Rebel General

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    Not saying this is my personal theory (because honestly, I have no idea), but a possible explanation could be that Gleeson's (perhaps Kylo's too) position is hereditary or a result of some form of nepotism. This is definitely not a new theory, and I know I've read posts that speculate along similar lines. If Kylo's role isn't somehow inherited (who knows from whom?), his apparent Force powers could have likely opened a lot of metaphorical (and probably literal) doors, despite his young age.
     
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  8. alex

    alex Rebel Official

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    This would also give the benefit of having a time jump with the sequels.
     
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  9. Trevor

    Trevor Rebellion Arms Supplier
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    Also keep in mind that financially the Empire-controlled portions of the galaxy may have gone bankrupt when the Empire crumbled and then suddenly the "Imperial Credit" became obsolete...cities crumbled, mass urban starvation, disease. These guys growing up in (perhaps) destitution and poverty were taught to hate the rebellion and everything it stands for because it "ruined" the Galaxy. With no other options, they joined the First Order (or were conscripted VERY young) and are the brightest of their classes.....so to speak.
     
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  10. Revanite

    Revanite Rebel General

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    They are powerful in the force......both of them ;)
     
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  11. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    We'll see if your right.
     
  12. John Crichton

    John Crichton Rebel Official

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    I'm not sure about Driver's age being relative to all this, but as far as Gleeson is concerned I seem to remember a rumor about his character being "Napoleon-like" making the rounds at some point. Gleeson is 30 or thereabouts, pretty much the same age Napoleon was when he became the singular leader of France, so his youth makes perfect sense when seen in respect to a "nation" in political and economic turmoil. Throw in what @odmichael was mentioning as well, and you get more of the Ren aspect.
     
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  13. Snazel

    Snazel Force Sensitive

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    Gleeson is Madine's son...

    Madine.jpg

    I love it when I win the internet like this. :)
     
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  14. Grand Admiral Kraum

    Grand Admiral Kraum Force Sensitive

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    You fools may laugh (those who rated funny) but this is my theory.
     
    #14 Grand Admiral Kraum, Jul 4, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2015
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  15. TheFettMan

    TheFettMan Rebel Official

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    Young military commanders or brilliant young leaders is not unusual or even unheard of even in Sci-Fi stories.
    Julius Ceasar was around 26 or so when he was a military leader. Alexander The Great was 29 when he had huge armies and land. ;)
    Even in US history, young army generals were common.
    George A Custer(who graduated last in his class at West Point) was commissioned a Brigader General at only 26. He was a Calvary officer who fought in many battles, later dying at The Little Big Horn.

    I think this "General" and maybe "Phasma" will be related-connected(twins???). They will both hate Skywalkers and want to anialate the Resistance. Why is a point we may learn from Leia or maybe Luke.
     
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  16. Bosc

    Bosc Force Attuned

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    Having the "General" and Phasma be related is a new wrinkle I hadn't heard before. Why do you think that would/should be the case?
     
  17. odmichael

    odmichael Rebel Official

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    Wait, You don't see the Resemblance?

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
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  18. WedgeSalad

    WedgeSalad Rebel General

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    When I was a kid, I probably watched ROTJ more than any of the other OT movies. But thanks to the superb resolution one gets when you tape something off mid-80s HBO (we had Temple of Doom on the same VHS :)), I never realized until very recently that Madine had a beard.
     
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  19. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    I do a brother/sister in the making IMO.
    I can why you watch it because it was the final chapter in this trilogy, gosh it's like reading the last page of a book.
     
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  20. odmichael

    odmichael Rebel Official

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    The only resemblance I see is the haircut :rolleyes:
     
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