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Kathleen Kennedy: Lucasfilm is Taking Time to Step Back and Think About Where Star Wars is Going

Discussion in 'SWNN News Feed' started by SWNN Probe, Aug 22, 2020.

  1. Use the Falchion

    Use the Falchion Force Sensitive

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  2. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    Is it?

    Maybe if you go by box office he's up there.
    But if you look at body of work....

    Kathleen Kennedy:
    ET
    Goonies
    Raiders of the Lost Ark
    Temple of Doom
    Last Crusade
    BTTF
    Color Purple
    BTTF2
    Who Framed Roger Rabbit
    Poltergeist
    Gremlins
    Land Before Time
    American Tale
    and that's literally just the 1980's so I don't use her entire catalog to inflate the list

    Joel Silver:
    The Warriors
    Die Hard
    48 Hours
    Lethal Weapon
    Predator
    Commando
    Lethal Weapon 2
    Die Hard 2
    Streets of Fire
    Road House
    The Last Boy Scout
    The Matrix
    Kiss Kiss Bang Bang

    Sam Spiegel:
    On the Waterfront
    The African Queen
    The Stranger
    The Bridge on the River Kwai
    Lawrence of Arabia

    Walt Disney:
    Everything Disney did or had in production through his death and it's too many to list.

    Feige is great but let's dial this back a bit. He does one thing very well.
    Obviously not including folks like Lucas or Spielberg who produce their own work
     
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  3. Jaimz the Jedi

    Jaimz the Jedi Rebel General

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    Probably worth remembering the only genuine blot on KK’s Star Wars career is Solo’s box office performance....which was still higher than the first Captain America...
     
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  4. Veronica

    Veronica Rebel Commander

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    Kathleen Kennedy tried to make SW films more cerebral and psychological and some fans can't deal with it. She tried to make it more reflective of a harsh, competitive and complex world and some fans can't deal with. I am shocked by the amount of people I have seen post that TROS is a 'mess' only to find that they really couldn't follow what was going on screen. She tried to show that true heroism and bravery starts with the mind and using smarts (ie. Holdo in TLJ). She tried to make it something with depth and substance. But obviously this is too much for some people. Hence the childish insults and calling for her job.



    If that's all you saw. I honestly feel sorry for you.



    The hatred of Rey by some SW fans is sad but not surprising partly from a standpoint of human nature. Also from what I have seen there are many who consider SW to be and only to be around the OT. Just basically people running around shooting or swinging lightsabers. There is no room for politics, look at the human heart or strategy.

    All of the traits that Rey has in the film were accumulated and developed over a period of 14 years. She could pilot ships because she practiced on computer simulator. She was able to fix machines because she learned to familiarize herself and even fix up parts better so that she will get more portions for food.

    She worked smart and made the most of her use while on Jakku. Even her skills in TROS came from training over a period of 1 year and reading the Jedi texts. Learning everything that she could. Her skills did not come out of thin air.


    As for her being independent. I would think that watching your parents walk out you at five years old, and in the care of an abusive junk dealer who played sadistic games and allowed you to starve if you didn't give him the parts he wanted. Would make your walls go way up and turn you self-reliant. Not because you're a bad-ass because if you don't learn to look after yourself no one else would. And the harsh environment she came from showed that people wouldn't think twice about stealing her finds and her betraying her.


    Because most people don't want to be reminded that they can do better--but it takes hard work and a willing to suffer--which is what most people at least in North America not only don't want to do, but think they are above . Don't believe me? Look at the amount of people consider it being a hardship because they have to stay under quarantine with their kids. Or the Kylo Ren fans who think that his crimes should be excused because he was 'manipulated', despite the fact that other characters who have suffered much worse than him. They claim that she's perfect, although she's woefully insecure and looks for approval/parental affirmation in others.



    And this isn't just endemic to Rey. I have seen it in other characters as well. I saw the same push back with Belle in the 2017 version of Beauty and the Beast, It's why Mulan is going straight to streaming instead of being pushed back. I know of a character that a lot of male fans hate because she's smart and sometimes outshines the testosterone filled alpha male lead.

    It takes energy and determination to fight and persevere. Most people don't want to do that. Hence they hate those who do.
     
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  5. Rogues1138

    Rogues1138 Jedi General

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    I don't have a problem with a female lead protagonist, or a woman being the head of LFL. I saw the ROS 4x in every format, I own a digital copy
    of the film, I seriously think that although KK is an iconic producer in her own right she fell short on the creative end of things. I'm very happy that she had a hand in the success of the Mandalorian, but as far as the sequel trilogy she didn't do a good job creatively.

    Other producers in the industry, for example, Kevin Feige who just hired a female director said he would help her with the action scenes which allot of people felt was a slight to her. Feige understands that she is a talented director she might need some assistance in that department. Also, Feige makes sure that the directors that he hires stay on track with the story he has planned.

    It is well documented that KK trusted JJ and RJ to do whatever they wanted because they are great directors and Star Wars fans, this is what led to the incoherent story of the sequel trilogy. KK has learned from her mistake and is now creating a story for the next trilogy. If she had done this from the onset we would not have what we have now. Sequel trilogy has its good parts but also some plot holes that are very apparent.

    JJ stated that he loved RJ's story but you can blatantly see that in ROS that it's not really the case. KK fired Trevaroow who was following RJ's lead. the burning question that stumps me is why bring back the Emperor to just kill him off yet again? ( maybe instead of a trilogy it should have been 4 films) JJ stated on numerous occasions that Emperor was going to be apart of this trilogy from the onset; however, his return feels rushed and disjointed.

    For this trilogy, I say again that KK's's primary goal was to have a female lead and because of this, she did not focus on the story at hand. Why does the sequel trilogy feel disjointed and all over the place? (IMHO films are subjective) George Lucas changed the story as he went along in the OT, but he had a core story at hand. He oversaw everything even though there were different directors for each of the OT films. I think KK took the same approach but gave the directors too much freedom to craft their own stories.

    Another example is Jon Favreau who is the showrunner for the Mandalorian. the success of the Mandalorian is because Favreau has a story to tell and with each director he hires they understand where the story is going. The story can change creatively as the filming goes forth but there is a core tale being told.

    If I sounded like I hate KK, I apologize. Each of the sequel trilogy films including Rogue One is successful films with exception of Solo which I enjoyed btw I do feel that she fell short on the creative end of things in the terms of the sequel's trilogy overall story. KK will not be removed because of the financial success she has brought to Disney. If KK decides to step away from it all she most likely will chose a worthy successor to replace her.

    I think Star Wars going forth is in good hands. Taika Watiti is a great director, so the next story is in good hands so far... we'll have to wait and see...
     
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  6. Ghost of Obi Wan Kenobi

    Ghost of Obi Wan Kenobi Rebel General

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    I politely disagree. Some people love Marvel films, (I do not, apart from maybe 4 or 5 of them.) But they had a built-in audience going back to the 60s with comic books. Characters are already established. Situations are built. All Feige had to do was pluck what he liked from each one. And let’s not forget that comic books constantly contradict themselves. (Which is why we get stuff like Into the Spiderverse, which shows multiple versions of the same character, making it hard to do a “wrong” version of the character. And yes, I’m aware Disney/Feige had nothing to do with that movie.) And finally, I do think Marvel fans are more forgiving than Star Wars fans by reading the comments. Kathleen is still the best producer. She has the past record on her resume. And she turned the most difficult franchise into a multi-billion dollar money-maker. Can she improve when it comes to the direction of Star Wars? OF COURSE. But I’m just keeping it real.
    --- Double Post Merged, Aug 25, 2020, Original Post Date: Aug 25, 2020 ---
    Sorry to disagree, but I do. The one thing I disliked about Mandalorian was that the story was all over the place. It did NOT have a “core” tale to be told, as you put it. So many episodes were one-time adventures that would be deemed “fillers” if they weren’t interesting. I’m not even clear what the central story is. I don’t know the motives of anyone, except that the former empire wants baby yoda..... for some reason. I’m looking forward to season two having a tighter story. The Sequel Trilogy had a much better story arc, so good, in fact that it mirrored the Original Trilogy too well.
    --- Double Post Merged, Aug 25, 2020 ---
    And I wouldn’t even call that a “blot” because I thought it was, ironically, the best Star Wars film to come out in the new era.
     
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  7. Rogues1138

    Rogues1138 Jedi General

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    It's fine to disagree, films are subjective. For example, my favorite episode in the Mandalorian is episode 5 ( the Gunslinger) which everyone calls a filler episode. I love the OT, so that episode is my favorite, especially when Mando kills the kid on the platform of his ship, classic Star Wars OT style. IMHO, I don't feel that Mandaloriian's story is all over the place and, it's fine that you do.

    What bothers me about the sequel trilogy is that it feels rushed. I love Rey and her journey but at the beginning of ROS, we see her training vigorously to foreshadow her eventual confrontation with the Emperor. As a martial artist myself her training didn't seem plausible any verisimilitude, at the beginning of ROTJ Luke seems like a fully-fledged Jedi, a little bit more confident then he was in the prior episode. He must have been training between Empire and Jedi. In the sequel trilogy, we see Rey training in the TLJ, on her own because Luke won't train her, then at the beginning of ROS she is vigorously training again for the inevitable confrontation with the Emperor for me was entirely predictable.

    Rey is a Palpatine so she must be more powerful then Luke would ever be and I'm fine with that but it all seems too rushed IMHO
     
    #27 Rogues1138, Aug 25, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2020
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  8. Jaimz the Jedi

    Jaimz the Jedi Rebel General

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    I only say it’s a “blot” because of the lack of box office success, which was probably more on Disney putting it in May. The actual movie was really good. In fact, Kathleen Kennedy doesn’t get anywhere near the credit she deserves for how Rogue One/Solo turned out. She saw things weren’t right and made a massive decision to reshoot 80% of Rogue One with Tony Gilroy. Likewise, replacing Lord & Miller with Ron Howard at great cost to the studio. Lesser producers would have let those movies come out and let the directors take the blame. She knew she’d get loads of negative headliners and did it anyway. She’s took the flack/heat off the creatives involved and we got two really good movies.
     
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  9. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    If KK were a man, she'd be a hard nose, tough as nails producer who puts up with no nonsense and cranks out billion dollar movies.
     
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  10. Meister Yoda

    Meister Yoda Your Little Green Friend
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    Kathleen Kennedy can squeeze orange juice out of a lemon. Fact.
     
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  11. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    Or any of the successes are clearly the result of someone else.
     
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  12. Veronica

    Veronica Rebel Commander

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    No Treverrow' s script did not follow Johnson's lead. Not at all. Kylo and Rey are two different characters. And plot threads from TLJ are dropped and ignored.


    I think that Kathleen Kennedy's goal was to make SW films, films with depth and that addresses the human condition and that are thoughtful and cerebral. Not a live action cartoon only fit for teenage boys (or those who think like them). Which is why I say that TLJ and TROS are character driven films, given that most of the events are fostered and moved by the characters psychological motivations.



    You will have to quantify what about the ST makes it feel disjointed and incoherent. Because it made perfect sense to me and the events flowed from one to another.


    I only watched the first episode of the Mandolorian, it was entertaining and visually appealing. . But I never bothered to continue when someone I know said that there are only 2 worth while episodes in it worth watching. And the rest is boring. The highlight of the show is Baby Yoda.

    To me it looks like re-tooled Clint Eastern era western (with a little bit of Lone Wolf and Cub thrown in) set in space. It also doesn't make me want to see it when most of the glowing reports I see attributed to are the fact that it closely resemble the OT, the Clone Wars. Essentially it comes across as a facile first shooter video game aimed at 15 year old boys who don't read and whose solution to everything is brute force. Not my idea of entertainment.
    --- Double Post Merged, Aug 26, 2020, Original Post Date: Aug 26, 2020 ---
    What?
     
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  13. Rogues1138

    Rogues1138 Jedi General

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    OY VEY
     
  14. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    Funny how that works but they never seem to give the male directors of the "failures" as much flak as Kennedy....
     
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  15. Veronica

    Veronica Rebel Commander

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    Indeed.
     
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  16. Apollus08

    Apollus08 Rebelscum

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    Why didn't she delay Episode 9 after Carrie Fisher died?

    Apparently the original story focused a lot more on Leia... so a lot of the story had to change. The fact that Ian McDiarmid got a call to play Palpatine -- 1 YEAR -- before the release of Episode 9 shows how unprepared they were. 1 year is extremely short to finalize a story and ALL of production.

    Making decisions like this is her job. "And that is why she fails." (yoda 2) Personally, I would've delayed the movie 6 months to a year to finalize a flawless screenplay and storyboard. But hey, that's just me...
     
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  17. deadmanwalkin009

    deadmanwalkin009 Rebel Official

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    Kathleen Kennedy's Special. That sounds amazing right now.
     
  18. Jaimz the Jedi

    Jaimz the Jedi Rebel General

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    She did, it was due for released in May 2019. They announced it being was pushed back to December in September 2017.

    Disney make the final decision on release dates...or specifically Bob Iger did. He even admitted Lucasfilm asked to move Solo to December 2018 after Lord & Miller were replaced, but it was his decision to keep it in May.
     
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  19. Apollus08

    Apollus08 Rebelscum

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    Sorry... edit:

    Personally, I would've delayed the movie 6 months to a year to finalize a better screenplay and storyboard. But hey, that's just me...

    It's fair to say there's no such thing as flawless. But they should be shooting for masterpiece quality. You can call it extremely high standards, but I guarantee George Lucas had the same ambition when he created Star Wars. I doubt we'll get anything close to masterpiece quality if they aren't even trying.
     
    #39 Apollus08, Aug 27, 2020
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 27, 2020
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  20. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    What Star Wars movie has ever been a masterpiece of screenwriting? You're in the wrong franchise for that, hell you shouldn't be watching franchises for that.

    Lucas changed his stories so often none of those screenplays would have been flawless or or even masterpieces.

    Trying to use this as a "raising" your standard argument is weak. The movie had already been delayed (your point moot) and it didn't improve the product. Terrio and Abrams have proven who they are when writing big blockbuster films. It wouldn't have changed anything
     
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