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Knights of Ren not Force Users? A hint of the bigger story? Long Post!

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' started by TalonHawk, Dec 22, 2015.

  1. TalonHawk

    TalonHawk Rebel Trooper

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    If you look closely at the scene where they show the Kylo in the rain with what we assume to be the Knights of Ren, *none* of them are holding/using a lightsaber (at least not a lit one) except for Kylo. A few are holding guns, one a staff (Doesn't look like Rey's), etc.

    It's in the trailer so you won't have to pay for another ticket to take a look. ;-)

    So what does that mean? Are the Knights of Ren not Force Users? Did they not have their lightsabers available?

    If I am to speculate wildly...

    Perhaps this ties into why Luke felt so responsible. Perhaps Luke had decided to train new Jedi differently. Instead of training them for war, he trained them for peace, which didn't include how to use a lightsaber or even to fight. Maybe he thought, or was afraid, all the training for fighting was one of the reasons Jedi were open to the dark side, or at least enabled them to do more destruction.

    This opens the possibility that there are only a very few lightsabers left since new ones were never created, not even for training. This helps explain why the movie stretches credulity a bit to have Anakin's lightsaber end up with Rey. She needs to have one for the plot and there may be only three known lightsabers left. Luke, Anakin, and Kylo's. Side note, I think Kylo's got destroyed by Rey?

    Perhaps Kylo's rough looking lightsaber was because Kylo made it in secret, maybe with some help from Snoke. Maybe Luke destroyed his own lightsaber, or maybe he couldn't quite bring himself to, and Kylo found it and it helped Kylo make one adding to Luke's guilt.

    Back to Luke, he ends up creating some "New Order" of Jedi. (Maybe the "First Order" is named in response?) This basically creates a Temple of non-violent force users who are ripe for the slaughter when confronted with the Dark Side in the form of Kylo and the Knights who say... err Ren. Maybe Kylo is lied to by Snoke, and thinks they're there to simply capture the New Order or drive them out, but the rest of the Knights have been commanded to slaughter everyone. Hard to imagine Kylo would have any doubt in the movie about being evil if he's already slaughtered a ton of innocents, but would certainly be conflicted if he let such a thing happen.

    Perhaps this even ties into Rey's story. Imagine that Luke is her care-taker, father, babysitter, person who happens to have her at the time stuff starts to go down, whatever (She has an english accent, she's a part Kenobi in one way or another). He feels a disturbance in the force, and leaves her somewhere he thinks she'll be safe, with the intention of coming back for her as soon as he takes care of whatever it is. (The power the suggestion to stay and wait had over her reeks of a powerful Jedi mind trick) For the sake of drama, it's Leia who has called him away from the temple in the first place, maybe to discuss Kylo (why she seems to recognize Rey since Rey is with Luke at the time). To speculate even more, Luke has a woman with him as well, Rey's mother. So he leaves the two on Jakku, but Rey's mother is taken at some point, or leaves to go help Luke if she's force sensitive, and the alien guy who takes Rey may be doing it to protect her. If Rey isn't Luke's daughter, then perhaps the father is even present, but leaves with the mother. (Maz, "They're not coming back. But there's still someone who could. With your help.")

    Luke arrives at the temple, where his students have been slaughtered. He is overcome with grief and guilt, feeling directly responsible for their deaths. He is confronted by the Knights while kneeling on the ground, body shaking with grief, face shrouded by his hood, and there, Luke Skywalker does something even the Emperor couldn't make him do. As he looks up, we get to see his face, and Luke is gone, his eyes are vacant, only his mouth eventually turns down into a scowl as he strikes the Knights with lightning, channeling the Dark Side more powerfully than the Emperor ever could, blasting all the Knights at once. Only Kylo manages to survive this by countering it some with his lightsaber. (Why we don't see any of the other Knights in TFA, they're dead.)

    Finally, as the others are destroyed by the lightning, only Kylo remains. Luke begins to focus all that power on him and Kylo is hurled to the ground, his lightsaber knocked from his grip. Kylo starts to scream as the pain engulfs him, blindly lifting a hand in a pathetic gesture for his uncle to stop hurting him. (Maybe with an "Uncle... noooo.. pleaaase"). Luke knows that gesture all too well, and suddenly he realizes it's his nephew, Ben, laying in front of him. Luke stops in horror, tears running down his face. He's lost, he's turned to the Dark Side, he has made a lie of everything he stood for, it's his fault, everything is his fault. He's too dangerous to everyone. Maybe this is supposed to be Snoke's moment of glory and Snoke reveals himself to take Luke, but somehow Luke runs, runs from the temple, runs from his family, runs from the galaxy, and runs from himself.

    Luke hides, and tries to come to peace with himself, he's had years to do so, but has he just driven himself mad during this time? It would explain why he doesn't say anything at the end of TFA, we'd find out pretty quickly this isn't good ole lovable Luke. And also why he needs Rey's help to "come back".

    PS: Sorry for the length of the post. lol More theories just kept coming to mind as I went along.
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 22, 2015, Original Post Date: Dec 22, 2015 ---
    And if this is anywhere close to the story, imagine what's going through Luke's head when Rey shows up and tries to hand him his father's lightsaber.
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 22, 2015 ---
    .... and....

    What if instead of Luke dropping off Rey, Rey's mother and father were members of the Knights of Ren that Luke kills? They had left Rey when they went to go attack the Temple.

    Will this be a bombshell dropped on her by the bad guys, kind of her "I am your father" moment? This also explains why she is strong in the force, if two force users were her parents. It also doesn't result in more shrinking of the universe by having everyone related.
     
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  2. SKB

    SKB Force Sensitive

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    They're Knights of Ren, not Sith Lords. Big difference. Notice in the flashback scene which showed a group of Ren that only Kylo Ren had a sabre? (and its not even a light sabre btw, seems to be a plasma sabre!) ;)
     
    #2 SKB, Dec 22, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2015
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  3. TalonHawk

    TalonHawk Rebel Trooper

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    Err, that's how I started down that whole rabbit hole of a post?
    With the exception of Kylo having a plasma saber, do we know if that's canon, because that's interesting. Not that it changes my post much, if any, though.
     
  4. ArynCrinn

    ArynCrinn 1030th Lieutenant (Jr Mod)

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    That's just people misinterpreting the visual dictionary, because a diagram of his lightsaber points to its "plasma blade."
    It's a lightsaber in every way... it's just based on an older design which dates back thousands of years to the Great Scourge of Malachor.
     
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  5. Darth Malkovich

    Darth Malkovich Rebel General

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    According to Driver:

    "It was a group that existed before him, that he was a part of. Their place within everything is maybe more of a satellite group than I would say … This is really tricky."
     
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  6. Lex

    Lex Rebelscum

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    Kylo's lightsaber is a "lightsaber" haha not a plasma one, if you look at the visual dictionary it shows you inside the hilt its just a cracked Kyber crystal. So its still a lightsaber its just an unstable one because its cracked.
     
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  7. Darth Mavis

    Darth Mavis Clone

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    A group of weak posers, is what they are. Aspiring dark side warriors, whom were/are also obsessed with Vader. Then someone comes along who is untrained, gives evidence to being of Vader's lineage, and all of a sudden, he is their master. They'll be vanquished by episode 8, and will hardly be discussed again.

    Don't even mention us in the same breath as those frauds. They were never a replacement for the Sith and they never will be.
     
    #7 Darth Mavis, Dec 22, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2015
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  8. Darth Malkovich

    Darth Malkovich Rebel General

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    On the second viewing I detected a sneer in Snoke's voice when he says, "even you, master of the Knights of Ren..."
     
  9. TalonHawk

    TalonHawk Rebel Trooper

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    Hmm, now this is interesting. Is it possible the Knights of Ren are Mandalorians?

    Shoots a big hole in my "Rey's parents where Knights of Ren", but I can live with that.. lol

    Maybe that means the spin off movies still have something tangentially to do with the main plot, we just won't know it before the main plot reveals it. There are a lot of unanswered questions that could best be done by flashback, but Star Wars doesn't like doing flashbacks. The next best thing is a prequel...?

    Rogue One could have Rey's lineage involved. Still say she's part Kenobi though, that accent. So we learn that Obi-Wan has some relatives in the rebellion, maybe a different last name. A last name we learn belongs to Rey in Episode 8?

    Young Han Solo could have something from his past that's either important or just interesting. "Did you know Han has a fake chest that got replaced when he was in an accident? Yeah, that thing could take a hole straight through it and keep on ticking!"

    Boba Fett movie could involve some history of the Knights of Ren.
     
  10. Aglarion

    Aglarion Force Sensitive

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    Just to clarify, the blade of the lightsabers has always been in a state of plasma, all lightsabers have plasma blades...
     
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  11. Hunin

    Hunin Rebel General

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    I think this movie ignores the abundancy of lightsabers we've grown acustomed to.

    If you recall, Vader remarks that Luke's construction of a new saber marks the completion of his abilities.
    Ben was most likely the most accomplished of Luke's students and yet the saber he constructed as Kylo Ren is on the verge of functioning.
    A nice point is made of this in the sound design of the movie too.
    Anakin's saber is given a sonorous bass at the crucial moment whilst Kylo's saber produces an unhinged, hissing twirl.
    Apart form returning to OT canon it is a really poignant expression of character.

    In summary I would not take the lack of a lightsabers among the knights of ren as proof for one way or the other.
    It does communicate that Kylo is the rightful master of the group - unfinished as he is.
     
    #11 Hunin, Dec 22, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2015
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  12. ArynCrinn

    ArynCrinn 1030th Lieutenant (Jr Mod)

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    This is more reason why I do not feel that the rain scene was depicting the betrayal of the Academy... unless Kylo constructed the lightsaber and mask in secret.
    I do not feel Kylo constructed that lightsaber under any sort of guidance from Luke.
     
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  13. Lex

    Lex Rebelscum

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    Yeah exactly, as if he's let him construct this old red crystal'd sith lightsaber. Cause that wouldn't be a sign of something to come... haha
     
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