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Official Star Wars Music Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'General Movie Discussion' started by tm0910196, Dec 3, 2016.

  1. tm0910196

    tm0910196 Guest

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    Greetings, Cantina! As I was browsing the fora, it came to my attention that there seems to be no "official" thread to discuss Star Wars music (be it in the saga films or in the standalone movies). It seems like such a thread would be good to have, in light of John Williams having begun Episode VIII and Michael Giacchino having replaced Alexandre Desplat and written the score for Rogue One with such short notice.

    So, with a go-ahead from @Lord Phanatic, I've taken the liberty of making one. What are people most looking forward to hearing in the upcoming films? Who should write the music for the Han Solo movie? What new themes will Williams establish for Episode VIII, and what old ones will he revisit?

    As for me, I'd love to see Kylo Ren get a more fleshed-out theme moving forward, and for the Jedi Steps theme to be incorporated into Episode VIII. I'd also love Michael Giacchino to at least give us a brief reference to the Imperial March, or the Imperial Attack motif from A New Hope.

    Discuss! :)
     
    #1 tm0910196, Dec 3, 2016
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  2. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    I'm most looking forward to an enhanced version of Kylo Ren's theme.

    If Giacchino did a great job with R1, then he should score all of the spin-off movies.

    I want to hear:
    - a theme for the First Order
    - a reunion theme for Kylo Ren and Leia (especially for you, @PrincessLeiaCB3)

    - Luke's theme is a given
     
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  3. tm0910196

    tm0910196 Guest

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    John Williams has said he wanted the initial Kylo Ren tune to be similar to the Imperial March, but not too similar. I wonder, though, whether Episodes 8 and 9 will move him to make it a little more (or less) similar, depending on the direction Kylo Ren goes (to or away from Vader).

    Part of me agrees with this; part of me doesn't. I think Giacchino is a great composer, so I'd be happy to hear more of him. On the other hand, Giacchino is so close to the "Williams school" in a lot of ways that I think it would stunt the "originality potential" of these scores if he did them all.

    I'm completely with you on that. I feel like Williams could take the idea from "Starkiller" and "Torn Apart," merge that with the Leia theme, and run with it. It would be Episode VIII's version of Return of the Jedi's "Luke and Leia." :) (What do you think, @PrincessLeiaCB3? :p Should it be that or should it include Kylo Ren's "evil theme" instead?)
     
    #3 tm0910196, Dec 3, 2016
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  4. BATMAN222

    BATMAN222 Rebel Official

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    There is a Kylo-Ren theme so their should be a first order theme!!!
     
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  5. tm0910196

    tm0910196 Guest

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    Well, the Empire got a march in the OT, and the Resistance has one now, so I don't see why there can't be a March of the First Order as well. lol. That could actually make for an interesting musical dynamic with the two ideas playing off of each other.
     
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  6. Bosc

    Bosc Force Attuned
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    For whatever reason, my first thought when I read that was that they should be played at the same time. Haha. Actually, I wouldn't mind it if John Williams went all Charles Ives on us. (The rest of the audience might, though).
     
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  7. tm0910196

    tm0910196 Guest

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    Haha, great reference... That might be a bit much!

    I found these recently and thought everybody might enjoy them, by the way. Two (unused and unreleased) John Williams pieces written for The Force Awakens. One is an extended suite of the Jedi Steps theme; the second is, if I understand correctly, a significantly different take on Han Solo's confrontation with Kylo Ren (right before he shouts, "BEN!!!!!")

    Jedi Steps suite (this one is presumed Williams until determined otherwise; I've seen nothing to the contrary and his musical mannerisms are all over it):



    Pre-Torn Apart cue (found this one via the JWfan website):

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9MWZLV1p2anN0RVE/view?pref=2&pli=1

    The second of those has a real Revenge of the Sith vibe. I guess that wasn't what JJ was looking for, or perhaps he felt it created an artificial sense of drama, so it got cut out. Enjoy!

    You may be able to clear something up for me once and for all. When fans refer to Luke's theme, they're referring to the Star Wars Main Title, right? I would assume that's the case, since it accompanies his entrances a lot of the time, but I've never been sure and felt stupid asking! :p Cause there isn't an officially-named "Luke's theme," right?
     
    #7 tm0910196, Dec 4, 2016
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  8. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    Do you think this might mean there was more unused footage and reshoots that said things other than what we saw in in the movie?
     
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  9. tm0910196

    tm0910196 Guest

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    Oh yeah...For sure. I can't track down all of them, but there are a lot of unused / altered / rejected musical ideas, some of which go along with cut scenes. I'm pretty sure the "Girl With the Staff" track on the Force Awakens albums belongs in a cut scene, for example.
     
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  10. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    I would have thought this track would have been from the first 15-25 minutes of the movie like when she's in her village and stuff, i mean, the could have cut and pasted in post with various parts of his writing
    .
     
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  11. tm0910196

    tm0910196 Guest

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    Well, on the above-mentioned site (JWFan), I read through a very interesting discussion once that was talking about how JJ and John did significant editing to the music after the fact, including copying certain previously written cues (like "The Girl With the Staff") and putting bits and pieces of them in different places where they weren't originally going to be used. There also ended up being significant amounts of "small edits" to a lot of the music throughout compared to what John originally intended, thanks to JJ's editing choices for the movie itself.

    Another big edit? The opening scene. If you look at the video on TFA/John Williams from "60 Minutes" last year, you can hear John conducting a piece of music that JJ describes as "the opening of the movie" (link to the music below) - but it's nothing like the final opening music with the Star Destroyer covering the screen (again, got the link from a user on JWFan discussion):

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9OXRoNnNxWE9uZGs/view

    JJ is also apparently on record as saying the movie was originally scored "wall to wall" (i.e., almost every single scene had some type of music in the background), but they removed about 20 minutes of music to "let the movie breathe a bit." Again, I'd have to go to the JW site and track down the info specifically, but I definitely am not making this up. lol. But at any rate, I think we have a prime example of this in the second track I posted above.

    A part of me also remembers hearing that Rey's Force Vision initially had music, too, but I can't substantiate that cause I have no idea where I heard that.
     
    #11 tm0910196, Dec 5, 2016
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  12. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    Yeah a lot of the time, theres a lot to edit both visually and musically to create a great movie...i have a feeling it will be more severe in VIII as well.
     
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  13. tm0910196

    tm0910196 Guest

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    As long as Williams' original ideas don't get butchered in the third act, as happened with Episodes I and II... lol. In the end, the music needs to serve the movie, but I hope Williams' vision comes to fruition, too.
     
  14. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    I just wonder...why so soon??
     
  15. tm0910196

    tm0910196 Guest

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    You mean, why has Williams started Episode VIII so soon?
     
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  16. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    yes
     
  17. tm0910196

    tm0910196 Guest

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    Well, I guess if the movie is ready for music, they're doing all they can to get a jumpstart.

    Also, on a perhaps more practical note, it may have to do with John Williams' age. He's 84, and at this age, he's said he prefers a more leisurely writing schedule (fewer late nights and whatnot). This way, he can work on the score and relax while he does it.
     
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  18. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    typically music is written and recorded only a couple of months before the movie is released and also after picloc is done. I dont think it's his age though. i just think that they are sticking to the original schedule for VIII because that's what was mapped out for scheduling. The release date can be changed to no end otherwise.
     
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  19. tm0910196

    tm0910196 Guest

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    Which then fuels rumors that they may (no pun intended) move things back to the May release date... :p But I doubt that.

    Speaking of puns, we should be getting a track list for Giacchino's Rogue One score soon. I wonder what insufferable track puns the man will use this time. I'm calling something like "Fight to the Death-Star" right now. White I'm sure the music will be great, I'm not a huge fan of the album cover. Between all the characters and the secondary credit to John Williams, I feel like it looks too cluttered:

    8160NtUOAxL._SX425_.jpg

    I would have used this image, said "Music by Michael Giacchino" in larger text, and had "Star Wars themes by John Williams" in smaller text:

    re1igeovr2p4ulftkoif.jpg

    But to each their own. I'm looking forward to Rogue One's music all the same.
     
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  20. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    you and your puns tsk tsk...i dont think disney's marketing machine would allow those kinds of names.
     
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