Poll: Did You Like TLJ's Characterization of Luke?

In order for the failure to have any kind of potency, we have to realize what the oversight was on Luke's part that put Ben on this path. Also, if Luke knew that, why would he ever do what he did? "Difficult to see. Always in motion, the future is," remember? There is little to no context given in order to support this part of the story.

I'm pretty sure there were far more healthy, proactive and believable ways of handling Luke's problem here than "I'll just loom over him and take my sweet ass time wondering whether or not I should kill him. What's worst that could go wrong?". By regressing Luke to the spiritual and behavorial level of Jedi like Mace Windu, you deteriorate the important thematic progression that took place in the original saga. It reminds me of a television series being artificially lengthened by resetting their characters to how they were the season before. It's not a good look, creatively.

Besides, no one wanted Luke to be perfect. The issue is that no one wanted Luke to appear to have learned nothing from his mentors, his experiences and his personal morals which I think is the worst part because his upbringing as a youth is what allowed him to reinvigorate the Jedi in the first place.

 

No, the point is to give us what we all wanted and expected so we can complain that it does nothing new!

 

Something new imo is not doing a complete regression of a character's arch. Doing something new for example is not making Snoke die in the same exact way the emperor did, full of overconfidence and betrayed by his Skywalker disciple.

 

It's not regression. Luke was never a crazy hermit at any point before.
Luke progressed into someone who felt betrayed by the force.
The power that had helped take almost everything from him.

He wasn't the all powerful answer for everything that he was in Legends.
He was human. Faults and all.

 

Implying he won the war by himself in the New Jedi Order.

 

Spoiler: Spoilers for TLJ

1) The problem with having Luke in the sequel trilogy is that, if he's going to have an arc then he's going to need room to grow. At some point, we need to see Luke overcome even what he was in ROTJ, which he does. By projecting onto Crait, he simultaneously saved lives while also (as we see in the final scene) giving hope to a galaxy that desperately needs it. All without engaging in actual violence or destruction. Those moments on Crait are Luke being far more of a Jedi than any we've ever seen on film.

2) Snoke was, and has always been, a red herring. Perhaps instead of focusing on his death from his own perspective, we should see it from Kylo's. Sure, Snoke died by Kylo's hand (albeit, hardly in "the exact same way") but it wasn't for some altruistic reason, necessarily. Kylo takes power and is now leading the First Order. And not in a sort of "I'm gonna turn this organization around for the better" kind of way. We see the FO is still out for the Resistance, given their immediate attack on Crait. That's dark stuff, not even Vader ended up doing that in ROTJ.

 

Well said. That's exactly how I feel. It's not that Luke was flawed. It was important to the story that he be flawed and make mistakes. But his flaws needed to be in line with his character and his experiences from the past. Life is an ongoing journey of learning, lessons and mistakes - even for Jedi. But the Luke from this movie didn't learn anything from his past experiences. That Luke saw his father, who he didn't even know, chose light after doing despicable things. And Yoda's lesson of "always in motion is the future". That Luke learned that no one is beyond hope and redemption and that the future isn't set.

I just can't believe that 30 years later he would - even for a fleeting second think of killing Kylo. Ben (Kylo) was his nephew that he knew all of Ben’s life. The son of his sister and best friend.

When he briefly gave into darkness in ROTJ, his friends were in immediate danger. In the Ben situation, Ben hadn’t even done anything evil-ish yet.

 

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 18, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 18, 2017 ---

I agree. I thought the direction with Luke was brilliant, and even though I was prepared for his death, it still hit me like a bag of rocks. My only wish was to see some @$$ kicking first, but they gave his death weight and meaning. I actually had to see it a 2nd time, as there was so much shocking/suprising stuff going on that I couldn't process it - My big old heart and small brain was completely overwhelmed. I was on the fence as to whether I liked the movie at all. My second viewing sold me on the movie. It really was well done. Was it where I would have wanted it to go? No, but it wasn't my call.

 

Sorry guys.
I said before overall I liked a lot Luke's arc.
That's the best thing in the movie for me.

But the almost killing of Ben Solo, to me is unforgivable.

Just because is totaly pointless in Luke's arc.

You do not need that to make him face failure, or to make him more human, etc ...
You already have all is needed. Ben turning. He faild as a master and as an uncle.
He failed Han and Leia.
As Obi Wan failed, as Yoda failed "Failed I have, in exile I must go"

And sorry... but Obi Wan wasn't willing to kill Anakin even after he turned and killed the young padawans.
Even on Mustafar, he's almost forced to say "Then I'll do what I must".
And he doesn't finish him.

To make Luke almost killing Ben Solo while sleepling... it's... no.
I can't take any justification.

Truth is, that is only a plot device. And That's what annoys me.
Really annoys me.
Because without that, the plot of the force-skype-call can't go on.
If you don't have a better idea.
But find another idea, do not screw up Luke.

And speaking about Obi Wan... it took 30 years for Luke to finally get angry with Obi Wan for
failing Anakin???

 

In a nutshell - I quite enjoyed, liked and understood everything about the decisions with Luke except for one: that, even for a moment, he would entertain murdering a child in their sleep. I know it's played as a brief moment that he feels everlasting shame for, but I cannot reconcile that brief flash with everything else we know about the character.

Everything else, I found excellent.

 

*sigh*

It's essential to Rey's arc.

 

I also think it's essential to showing Luke as a flawed human. In Legends he was basically an infallible god character who did no wrong and could not be beat (more or less). So it would make no sense to have a Star Wars movie where Luke isn't the main hero....unless he wasn't all that. What if Luke of legend and Luke of reality weren't the same...what if he was *gasp* human and prone to weakness and flaws.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 18, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 18, 2017 ---

If you could go back in time and kill baby Hitler, would you?

 

No is not. It is only if you don't find another way to build up the force-bond.

 

I completely agree. It is completely unforgivable AND unneccessary. Good point about Obi Wan not willing to kill Anakin. And Luke wouldn't kill Darth even after all the bad crap Darth did. Darth was his father but he never knew him. Ben Solo was his beloved nephew of his sister and best friend. He knew Ben Solo all his life. And Ben was sleeping. And he hadn't even acted on anything yet. A major pount of the original trilogy is that anyone can be redeemed and the future is always in motion. But the guy who wouldn't give up on Vader is supposed to have thought of killing his nephew. It's absurd and unbelievable.

And like you said, they didn't need it for for the plot. His failure maybe was jsut that he wasn't a good teacher or didn't catch the darkness in Ben Solo soon enough. That still could have lead to his shame and excile. It bothers me to my very core that they tainted Luke's character.

 

That's not the Jedi way.
Or it wasn't before TLJ came out.

That said, agree to disagree.

 

No. It disregarded the established canon of the original Star Wars saga. A character's arc and motivation cannot be decided, or based, off the tenets of a single film. Especially a film that's a sequel to seven installments. It was a disappointing direction and one that failed to capture, or even understand, the basic concepts Lucas constructed Luke's journey around.

 

The "it could have been done another way" argument doesn't hold up. There's no end game there.

 

I don’t get the “ it was a slapstick comedy” did I even watch the same movie? I think fans have gone mad with expectation

 

According to your version of SW, maybe.

 

I'm starting to ask myself if Disney killed Luke because they can't handle Hamill to speak his mind ?