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SPOILERS: Comparisons between Luke and other [archetypes] in fiction

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by heatersintheocean, Jan 5, 2018.

  1. heatersintheocean

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    SPOILERS FOR BOTH THOR RAGNAROK AND TLJ AHEAD

    I just watched Thor Ragnarok and noticed similarities between Luke and Valkyrie. Their circumstances are very different, but they share the "given up hero" archetype (or the Fallen Hero trope if you go by TV tropes) . This made me interested in comparing the similarities and differences between TLJ Luke vs other Fallen Heroes in fiction, and analyzing what caused a hero to change/return in each of the different cases.

    Both Rey and Thor can't believe that the former heroes would turn their back on helping others, even though in the past Luke always wanted to help others and Valkyrie swore to protect Asgard. One difference is that it seems Luke withdrew himself because he thought with his failure, he did more harm than good, even though there were people he still cared about who were in danger. Valkyrie did not withdraw because she thought she would harm those she loved; she withdrew because she hated how her friends were killed because they were caught up in the Asgard family's personal disputes. It's unclear if there was anyone else in Asgard she wanted to protect. But the reason for Valkyrie returning suggests that she also cares about Asgard, despite hating how her unit was led to their deaths.

    Now let's look at why both heroes decided to get back in the game. Luke sees the iconic recording of Leia. It's left to the viewer to think about all the different reasons why this would make him change his mind, but in general it's because it reminded him of his past self and his past feelings, and also that he knew Leia was in danger and wanted to help in some way. A very similar event happens with Valkyrie in which she remembers the past. While I wrote how the circumstances that caused the heroes to fall are very different, they both rise up in the same way: remembering their past selves.

    Both of these examples illustrate how the loss of one's heroic self image can overpower a former hero's compassion. I got the impression that Luke did not stop caring for his friends, but he thought he was a danger to them. It makes me want to look more into different stories that explore different reasons for a hero's change and return.

    What other fallen heroes in fiction are comparable to Luke? What do their similarities/differences say about the fallen hero archetype, in general, or even about Luke? Do you think Luke's change was done well enough in TLJ? Personally I don't think enough explanation was given to fully explain his change, but that's just my opinion. This is the reason I'd like to have a movie or novel that explores both Ben and Luke's downfall in more detail.

    EDIT, 11:38pm 1/4: So Luke didn't get back into the game until he talked to Yoda, so there's more to it than just seeing Leia's recording and obtaining his self image as a hero back
     
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  2. Darth Basin The Greatest

    Darth Basin The Greatest Rebel Official

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    Ok now. First things first!

    Never compare Luke 2 anything from the horrid movie!
     
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  3. Sparafucile

    Sparafucile Guest

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    Lots of examples in movies or TV.

    First I thought of was Hook, because I recently watched it with my son.

    Rocky III comes to mind too. I think Sly does it best.

    Jack Bauer coming back in season 2 of 24 after his wife is killed at the end of season 1. That was done well too.
     
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  4. BobaFettNY21

    BobaFettNY21 Force Attuned

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    Must remember that Achilles retreats from the battlefield after a betrayal by Agamemnon and only returns to the fray after his cousin/friend/possible lover Patroclus is killed.
     
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  5. Bendak Starkiller

    Bendak Starkiller Force Sensitive

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    I also noticed that the "big goods" (Luke and Odin) ended up creating the big villains (Kylo Ren and Hela) for our heroes (Rey and Thor) to deal with.
     
    #5 Bendak Starkiller, Jan 5, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2018
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  6. Ammianus Marcellinus

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    I thought of Tiananmen Man:
    [​IMG]
     
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  7. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Attuned

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    Luke always spoke of the Jedi as Space wizards and the Skywalker Sabre as Excalibur.

    As such the idea of Luke running off in failure and soul crushing despair runs completely in the vein of Merlin. Prior to becoming advisor to Arthur (in some legends) Merlin lost a wife and baby. His response was to live as hermit for years. Later he returned and helped Arthur.
     
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  8. FreddieMac

    FreddieMac Clone Commander

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    Luke Skywalker always compared very well to Aragon (Vigo Mortenson's version). They both have a very Tolkin story arc.
     
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  9. Bendak Starkiller

    Bendak Starkiller Force Sensitive

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    Thought of another connection between Ragnarok and TLJ.

    Both Rey and Thor at the end of their movies are tasked with creating a better Jedi Order and Asgard respectively; free of their problems from the old ones.
     
    #9 Bendak Starkiller, Jan 5, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2018
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