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Star Wars and Violence

Discussion in 'Original Trilogy' started by PrincessLeiaCB3, Jul 5, 2016.

  1. PrincessLeiaCB3

    PrincessLeiaCB3 The Princess that was Promised
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    Yesterday, while I was chilling and waiting for the fireworks, I read this article and really got me a little bit mad how people sometimes uses Star Wars for their own pursuits:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/03/o...nd-the-fantasy-of-american-violence.html?_r=0

    I mean, everyone has their opinion, but in this case the author went overhead with his comparison between the American violence and the status quo depicted on a galaxy far, far away. He falls into the same trap and, if Star Wars was a absolute depiction of the American violence, maybe we would not have so many fans from all over the world truly united via their love for this saga.

    I know I am a newcomer on the Star Wars fandom, but I can see the huge impact Star Wars has had on our modern culture. To try to see it deeply as applied to your own reality, it might be good or bad: it is like the fool who sees the finger of the wise man pointing at the Moon, rather than looking at the Moon.

    What are your thoughts?
     
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  2. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    Well it's funny because it goes back into gun violence where it's about opinion whether they are trying subconsciously to emulate violence from star wars as well well deciding if you want to blame a FICTION movie or not
    .
     
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  3. PrincessLeiaCB3

    PrincessLeiaCB3 The Princess that was Promised
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    Exactly!!! I mean, it is up to you if you want to feel like a stormtrooper or not. Star Wars would have a older roots, like in the Greek and Roman mythology. In my opinion, it is our modern mythology.

    It is like saying "yeah, from all the countries in the world, the only violent one is USA." Just a comment: Game of Thrones - which is quite huge in graphic violence - is loosely based on the dynastic wars in Europe, with some Asian and African influences. Give me a break.
     
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  4. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    It's like the typical saying, "...would you jump off the cliff if...."
     
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  5. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    Star Wars violence, we knew this would happen.
    upload_2016-7-5_22-30-11.png
    upload_2016-7-5_22-32-55.png
    [​IMG]
     
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  6. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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  7. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    Yep the unsafe working galaxy environment republic credit lawsuits would be breaking the glass ceiling, CGI & creative props saved the day.
     
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  8. Admiral Petty

    Admiral Petty Force Sensitive

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    I actually really enjoyed the article and understood where the author was coming from, seeing as he was a soldier who has seen the actual horrors of war. I have two grandfathers who served in wartime(WWII and Vietnam respectively). My older grandfather who served in WWII has since passed away(not before imparting some horrifying stories though), however my other grandfather who is a Vietnam vet is plagued to this day with issues from the war. He still has horrible PTSD issues and even some health issues from exposure to Agent Orange(my aunt was born with spinal issues because of it). To him, movies featuring war and violence have a different feeling and tone. He doesn't go so far as to have issues with Star Wars, but he does find it bothersome just how violent and realistic entertainment has become these days. To him, video games like Call of Duty and Battlefield are more than harmless fun. As someone who has seen his friends die right next to him and has killed other men himself, he finds no entertainment value in simulated versions of that violence(especially as it strives for greater realism).

    With that in mind, I completely understand where the author of this article is coming from. Will it make me stop watching Star Wars, of course not, but I can see how someone in the author's position would have a hard time enjoying something featuring warfare, even if its something as tame as Star Wars. I also think he's right that people sometimes watch movies and uphold violence as a virtue even in real life, which isn't an inherently American thing either. The author does mention the Iraq War however, and I can definitely remember the rallies for action that were rumbling around the country. People just wanted to see justice done, but many were also acting rather extremely.

    I remember seeing a man on a street corner in my hometown holding a sign that read "Nuke em' til they glow and then shoot em' in the dark". He was smiling with this smug look on his face, it was pretty disgusting really. He obviously wasn't thinking about all of the innocent people over there, people who had fathers, mothers, daughters, sons, nieces and nephews and so on. They weren't really people to a person like him, but rather subhuman creatures that needed to be exterminated. Sadly, at least early on, sentiments like the ones on that man's sign weren't nearly as rare as they should have been. There were also people who would silence any disagreement on the war by saying that those who had issues with it were unpatriotic and wanted the troops to die. I saw more than one bumper sticker that said things like "If you don't stand behind our troops then get in front of them".

    Does all of that mean that its wrong to watch Star Wars? I certainly don't think so, but it is good to keep a perspective of fantasy and reality, and especially realize that violence in real life is not something to be glorified in any way shape or form, even if it is necessary at times. Sadly, some of the dumb masses don't always separate the two as easily as one would think. I even remember one guy who wanted to join the military because he saw how cool the guns and cannons looked in the Transformers movies, not out of a sense of duty and honor, but because he wanted to fire a cool gun... That he saw in a godawful Transformers movie no less.

    At the end of the day, I find that the majority of veterans I talk to, who have seen the real horrors of war, tend to view violence with a much more abhorrence than us everyday people. Even more noteworthy, they generally view people of other nations, especially the ones where they fought, as actual human beings deserving respect and not as the kind of boogie men that we used to see on propaganda posters. They are also usually more wary of the nation going to war, if they aren't against the prospect outright in most cases.

    Really, at the end of the day, whether you are pro-war anti-war or somewhere in between, it is good to take a step back from entertainment and cultural norms and see whether they might be affecting you. I know that watching something like Star Wars(or any form of entertainment featuring violence) certainly doesn't encroach on my real life values(or the values of the majority of Star Wars fans), but sadly, not all people are the same in that respect.
     
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  9. FN-3263827

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    the author states: "It’s a story about how violence makes us American. It’s a story about how violence makes us good."

    eh. i couldn't more fundamentally disagree with this sentiment.
    while i respect the writer's perspective, i feel sorry for him if this is his actual takeaway from Star Wars.
    personally i learned the exact opposite; the war didn't end because of violence. the galaxy wasn't saved because of war. the heroes won because, ultimately, Luke refused to fight, insisted on peace, and ultimately, appealed to a desire for justice in his father. and yes, there was still violence and the peace was bought through it, but that was never the point to my understanding.

    the author also states: "It’s our choice. We make our myths. We show by our actions what our holy days mean."

    we also choose how we interpret our myths. and we show by our actions how we teach those things to our children.
     
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  10. Amanaman

    Amanaman Rebel Official

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    Wonderful words my friend.
     
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  11. PrincessLeiaCB3

    PrincessLeiaCB3 The Princess that was Promised
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    Please bring a bottle of the finest Alderaanian wine for this one.

    Exactly! I understand, to actually see war is way too different to see a battle between X-wings and Star Destroyers. BUT you choose how to take it.

    That's why I made the comment about Game of Thrones, which actually shows way more graphic violence than Star Wars. Just because I enjoyed Jon Snow defeating Ramsay Bolton and I'm looking forward to the invasion of Daenerys does not mean I condone a course of action that lead to war.

    And we have to acknowledge that the human nature likes to fight, I mean before 1776 there were quite a lot of wars in the world, before the Founding Fathers got together that summer in Philadelphia and decided to do a Brexit before it was cool!
     
    #11 PrincessLeiaCB3, Jul 6, 2016
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  12. CTrent29

    CTrent29 Rebel Official

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    I cannot take this author seriously. If this is the message that he came away with, then I cannot help but wonder if he fell into the same trap as many others, who believe that STAR WARS was some space opera that supported and celebrated American violence.



    The heroes didn't win because of Luke. They won regardless of Luke and Anakin's actions.
     
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  13. FN-3263827

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    oh. i must have watched a different movie. in the one i saw, Luke precipitated Darth Vader killing the Emperor, thus ending his reign of terror in the galaxy. [shrug]
     
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  14. PrincessLeiaCB3

    PrincessLeiaCB3 The Princess that was Promised
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    One thing we have to understand is that obviously there will be more than one perspective, solely. The author sees himself as the nameless Stormtrooper fighting the Rebels. But obviously there are more than that chosen perspective. In the eyes of some of the people living there, they could be seen as the Clone Troopers arriving to Geonosis.

    It's for example, what the Story Group is doing with the new canon by expanding the focus of the Galaxy towards the rest of the people and sentient beings living there. We have moderate and extremists on both sides. We meet people that like the order of the Empire - like Cienna Ree and Rae Sloane - but they are not as ruthless as other Imperial agents we have met so far. Same for the Rebels - we have our Big Three, fighting for justice and freedom, but within reasonable limits, as well as other who would not hesitate to kill and destroy as well as the same Empire they are fighting.

    And yes, maybe the Rebel Alliance won the day by destroying both Death Stars, but one was destroyed by Luke's shot and the other thanks to Han, Leia and the merry bunch of Ewoks. Even when Luke didn't destroy this one, he refused to kill his father, causing the merciless Darth Vader to redeem himself by killing the evil Emperor.
     
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  15. Admiral Petty

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    I actually really like how the Story Group is presenting the complexities of war these days. They've been doubling down on the "civil war" aspect of the Galactic Civil War. War isn't something that is full of clearly defined good guys and bad guys, even if one side is clearly in the wrong, that doesn't mean that all the soldiers on that side are evil, nor does it make all the soldiers on the other side virtuous. Take WWII for example, the Nazi party was clearly despicable, but saying that all German soldiers were evil is just stupid and simple minded.

    Also kudos to George and the people who worked on TCW for spotlighting the complexities of the Clone Wars and the fact that there were good people on the side of the Separatists too. That has also carried forward into Rebels, showing that there are honorable people on the side of the Empire too. Agent Kallus turned out to be a far more interesting character than what he initially seemed to be.
     
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    I saw the Rebel Alliance defeating the Imperial forces and blowing up the second Death Star without Luke, Anakin or anyone else's help. And as I recall, it took a while for the Rebel Alliance to completely defeat the Imperials after Palpatine's death.
     
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    True, it was an effort on multiple fronts, however, had Palpatine and the Sith Order not been destroyed, I'm doubtful that the Empire would have truly fallen. After all, there was still plenty of time to evacuate the Death Star, there's no doubt the Emperor would have escaped otherwise.
     
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  18. The Keen Fortuitous One

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    Great post! Is Star Wars violent? Sure. Does it promote violence? Not really. Luke refuses to fight Vader; Obi Wan refuses to fight Vader; Yoda expresses that violence and the dark side is bad. If you are pro-jedi, you want to avoid conflict.
    Of course, there are other characters who gain advantages through violence- Han shoots Greedo; Wookies will pull your arms out of their sockets; blowing up Death Stars. However, I do not feel that they were promoting violence as much as rebellion. The good guys were threatened with violence and defended themselves.
     
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  19. PrincessLeiaCB3

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