SPOILER Star Wars Jedi: Survivor story discussion

The Coruscant stuff was really cool. I know that I've been speculating on what the story of a Fallen Order sequel would be ever since the first game came out, and this opening mission really sets the tone of how nothing is as expected... no Greez/Merrin/Cere, Cal is working with Saw again, and on Coruscant of all places!

In fact, after Fallen Order took place in such remote, uninhabited areas (Kashyyyk mostly avoiding any actual Wookiee settlements, and the Nightbrother "village" on Dathomir not really feeling particularly village-esque), having an opening in the heart of the Empire showed how different Survivor was willing to be.

 

If you’re a big fan of ‘The Force Awakens’ plot centering on finding a legendary hidden planet – or the Rebels episode, ‘Legends of the Lasat’, centering on finding a legendary hidden planet – or ‘The Rise of Skywalker’ centering on finding a legendary hidden planet – you’re gonna LOVE ‘Jedi Survivor’

I appreciated the larger themes of the story: the continued reconciliation of trauma and the deceptive resonance of obsession, but , all in all, not terribly riveting material.

Of course, I’m not a gamer, I just watch the cobbled together edits on YouTube. So my impression is pretty well influenced by the particular version someone crafted and not the intended experience of someone walking through firsthand. I bet that makes a big difference.

 

The spoiler-free reviews were correct, Jedi Survivor manages a really strong finish, and that's no small task! Kudos!

Some of the game was rather interesting and exciting, but there's a whoooooole lot of jumping and climbing and flicking switches and kicking down Stormtroopers etc., that got really old for me. But yeah, the ending was dynamite!

 

I mean, sure... there are a few other hidden planets in Star Wars. It's not like Tanalorr is totally unique in that aspect, but it nonetheless does make it a very valuable planet... and the idea of using it as a hiding place for the Jedi is fascinating.

That said, I think the even more interesting idea here is Jedi from the High Republic being unfrozen during the time of the Empire. Really interesting idea, a lot to unpack there. I'm not sure Survivor fully capitalized on this idea, though.

 

Possibly.

Though I saw someone point out that Cal's meeting with

Spoiler: side content spoiler

Boba Fett

could be his ticket into the Mandoverse. Though he'd be pretty old at that point.

 

All the hidden worlds are presented in mythological contexts though, yeah? Lira San in Rebels is a legendary holy land that actually gets used as a sanctuary world that’s outside the reach of the Empire because of a spatial anomaly that makes the path impossible to navigate without special knowledge.

I wasn’t bringing that up to knock the idea as unoriginal though. It’s not like Star Wars isn’t in the habit of recycling ideas. Just something I noticed. Oh, we’re doing this again? OK, I wonder how they’ll spin it this time.

It’s certainly an interesting idea to connect ‘The Path’ from Obi-Wan in with this. It’s the two competing drivers of this era: Do we fight against the Empire outright or do we settle instead on saving others from the Empire’s wrath? It’s the same concept the Bad Batch is highlighting in season 2. It’s nice cohesion.

There isn’t an alliance of rebel groups at this point. So how do we stand up to this massive wave, to make a difference, and not get completely crushed? It's 'saving what you love' versus 'fighting what you hate'.

 

I’m definitely curious where this ‘underground railroad’ concept leads to in the long run. It’s such a departure from the classic conflict we know. It would be fun if that’s where BB’s plot steers them – helping found what would later become the Path . . . . or not. Just a thought.

As far as Cal’s story, I’m still intrigued to see how it plays out within his own medium. I’m not really expecting it to have much impact beyond the game space. Feels really insular to me. But I wouldn’t be mad if it did.

 

That’s pretty much where my head was at with Wendig’s Aftermath trilogy back in 2017. Oh, wow, I thought, all this textured storytelling, with all these defined characters, happening in-between the movie trilogies, concluding in the battle of Jakku – how is this going to dovetail into the sequel trilogy? Spoiler: it doesn’t. It was its own story and, to enjoy it, you have to engage with it at that level. You can’t bother yourself with how it touches the broader continuity.

Interconnectivity is a fun draw, but you also have to be OK with it standing alone as its own narrative. Because there’s a good chance that’s all it’ll be.

I haven’t watched R1 a bunch. Well, not the first 2/3 anyways. The Empire was on Jedha to harvest kyber for the Deathstar laser, right? And Saw’s crew was there because of that? Meh, something like that. I’d be alright with a retcon though

 

Its a hard game, and embarrassingly I'm playing on easy, I'm stuck again... I'll read the spoilers when I finish the game. It will tide me over until Ahsoka. I'll be playing all summer long, because I can't devote my entire day playing I have several art projects to complete.

 

Finished the main story last night- all bounties done, a few rumors to hunt down still.

Overall, I really liked it. I see it as the KOTOR2 to Fallen Order's original KOTOR. While the first game gave us a really solid, traditionalist tour of the Star Wars universe, the sequel was darker, more mature, more complex... and had some technical issues on release. That said, I was lucky enough to not have too much of a problem with the technical stuff.

A few random thoughts:

- Dagan was criminally underutilized, and I think I know why. He turned "evil" way too quickly. As a former High Republic jedi, he had such an interesting perspective that he could expose Cal to- both of what he knows of the old order, and what he hated about them. If he'd just played his cards a little better, he could've worked with Cal, for a while at least. Even if only for one or two missions before betraying him... something, other than the 15 seconds we got before bleeding his saber.

- Which brings me to the sabers. I always figured that bleeding took a bit longer than that (though I can't think of anything that necessarily supports that in canon), but I actually like how striking it was with Dagan so I didn't mind it there. But Bode having a red saber, too? I don't buy it. Yes, he was selfish and willing to sell out his friends, but I don't really see him as having given in to the dark side, nor do I think that really suits his character. It feels like the game was scared to have us fight anyone with a non-red lightsaber, even though one of the most famous duels in the movies was blue on blue.

- All that said, the third act of the game was fantastic. Really went to a lot of places that I didn't expect. I know that a lot of reviews have complained about Koboh being overused and there being a lack of planets, but I feel like it's not all that different from the ratio of Zeffo in the first game... it's just that Survivor has a ton more content to it, so we spend more time there. But given how varied Koboh's geography is, this also helps to make it seem not too egregious.

- There's way too much parkour. I don't mind some "getting from Point A to Point B in a cool way" stuff. Heck, I'm one of the biggest Assassin's Creed fans in the world, lol. But I prefer when the parkour feels at least somewhat linear. There are segments in Survivor (particularly the Forest Array) that feel like they're designed to feature every single square inch of the location, rather than allowing Cal a way to get to his destination. I think of this as "showcase parkour", in how it seems built to showcase an entire area, and the original Uncharted did this a lot too, if that comparison helps. Basically, instead of scaling the smaller tower to get to the larger tower where the target is, you scale the smaller tower, shimmy over to another edge, go almost all the way down to the ground (but not so much that this area was accessible before), then back up, then shimmy over to a cliff face, then halfway down again so you can jump across to the top of the garment store next to the large tower... etc. It just seems to act as a way to artificially extend gameplay, but to me it does so at the expense of breaking the suspension of disbelief in the story. Again though, it wasn't always too bad... the Forest Array was definitely a low for this, but some areas (like the mountaintop and beyond) handled platforming much better.

- There's definitely a sequel coming to possibly wrap up the trilogy, so here's my brief prediction (though I don't think any fans of Fallen Order could've predicted this game, even after some of the teasers and trailers):

The game opens 13 years later, a bit before the Battle of Endor. Cal Kestis (now in his mid 30s, which works since Monaghan is 30 now) is living on Tanalorr with this branch of the Hidden Path, his friends, and Kata (who would be in her late teens or early twenties by now). Cal and Merrin also have had a child of their own too, perhaps one that has embraced the Nightsister magic.

The game opens with some peaceful times on Tanalorr (or perhaps a mission off world where Cal helps some Bothans retrieve some plans), we learn during this time that while Cal has held off giving in to the Darkness, it's still something he struggles with on a daily basis.

The Empire seems desperate lately... and in their desperation, an Imperial fleet has stumbled upon Tanalorr somehow (possibly due to Cal returning there from a mission. The Imperial fleet fills the skies, and the people of Tanalorr begin a desperate retreat all to various corners of the galaxy, seperating Cal, Merrin, their daughter, and Kata. Vader shows up (for the last time), possibly doing one more dastardly thing like killing Greez or Merrin.

Cal gives into the darkness and fights off Vader, overpowering him entirely but somehow Vader escapes.

Cal wakes up later on the other side of the galaxy. He learns that the Empire has been defeated at Endor- Vader and the Emperor are dead, and the Empire is on the run, in a lost war. The dynamic is different now- this time, Cal is not the survivor, but the hunter. He gives in more easily to the darkness, using it to destroy the already decimated Imperial Remnant. As new threats emerge across the galaxy and Cal struggles to reunite his family, he also must try to not become the very monster he helped destroy.

 

Issue 5 of the Darth Vader comic (source) deals with it pretty directly. The way it’s presented there, it’s a whole spirit quest type deal. The crystal essentially has its own will that has to be conquered and it takes everything he has to do it. The situation is slightly different though in that Vader is corrupting someone else’s saber (that sounds dirtier than I intended ) rather than his own, which is what Dagan is doing. So . . . it’s easier?

But, it’s a video game. You have to move the pace along, I reckon. So it just kinda happens <shoulder shrug>

Yeah, I wasn't sure if I missed a bit where Bode nabbed Dagan's blade or something. Pretty odd.

I don’t really buy either antagonist’s motivations to be honest. I was expecting some shoe to drop about Tanalorr having a direct corruptive draw that lured folks to the dark side or whatever. But no. It was just some really choice piece of real-estate that compelled people to become homicidal maniacs. Pretty underwhelming.

 

Yeah, I'm kinda split on that. I know a lot of people have issues with Bode's motivations, especially in how near the end of the game he's willing to risk a likely death rather than submit to Cal's terms. Definitely seems like a bad choice, but I don't really hold characters to making 100% optimal decisions. Bode mad a bad choice and paid for it.

That said... it's an entire planet, lol. It's always so funny to me how in Star Wars, we act as if once a person's planet has been identified it's only a matter of hours before they're tracked down... meanwhile, IRL, every single missing person in the history of our species has always been on the same single planet.

For Dagan... I initially had some issues with his motivation, but I think the fact that he apparently turned to the dark side well before going to the bacta tank makes this easier to accept. Still think it would've been wiser for him to work alongside Cal rather than against him immediately, but I guess that doesn't gel with his angry anime boy characterization.

 

He’s basically ‘Anakin light’. In order to protect someone he loves, he commits horrific acts that loved one would never condone. So it isn’t truly about ‘love’ but rather ‘possession’. It works decently well with the larger theme of ‘family versus isolation’ that Cal is dealing with. Bode is both. He’s preserving his family WITH isolation.

The idea is sound. It’s just awkwardly executed. “I want to get my daughter to a place where the Empire can’t hurt her.” OK, I get that. “And I’m apparently perfectly fine with murdering a kindly old man in cold bold to do it.” Whoa, yikes, you lost me there, guy. Certainly you’re aware THAT’S unequivocally evil, right?

I guess Bode’s rationale is that if this hidden planet starts harboring ‘enemies’ of the Empire, then it won’t stay hidden for very long. And since they’re the only people there, it won’t be hard to track them down (sensors and all that). So a compromise with ‘the Path’ is too risky for his daughter’s safety? I guess?

I was a little confused at the end there though. Does the Empire know Tanalorr is there or not? All the Imperials that knew are dead?

But he turned because . . . the stodgy old counsel didn’t like his cool new temple? The one he managed to build by himself? I get that he was obsessed with it and all, but I really didn’t follow the logic there.

I loved Cal’s deflated reaction though. That was hilarious to me. “Hooray, I found a long lost Jedi! We can be pals. Wait, you’re gonna be a bad guy!? Oh, come on, man! Well, I guess we gotta fight now.”

That was equally comical to me. Shirtless, leather pants, long silky hair. This dude just step in from Final Fantasy? Shouldn’t he be wielding a man-sized mechanical sword with rockets on it? He just feels . . . so . . . much

 

Good point. When heading toward Bode's chambers, Kata says that she "doesn't like it here", describing it as "lonely", among other things. Merrin takes that to mean the tunnel they're walking through, but I can't help but think that it has multiple meanings, and that Kata was unhappy with him alone on Tanalorr. After all, she seemed to take Bode's death pretty well, all things considered. Can't help but think that she was well aware she was basically kidnapped by a psychopath.

True, though tbh I'm not entirely sure the idea is even sound, either. What's he trying to escape from, exactly? He's clearly already struck a deal with the Empire, and seems to be living in relative luxury on Nova Garron.

Now, I'm of the opinion that the story didn't really need Bode to be an ISB informant (I think giving an otherwise good guy a single moment of weakness at Jedha would've been the more interesting and logical story) but if they are gonna give him a cushy Imperial job, they kinda needed to demonstrate better why he was so desperate to leave it. As it was, it seems he fit in quite well with the Empire- and while I'll stand by my principle that I understand characters don't always make the most optimal decision, I still feel that if Bode was worried to put his daughter in danger, he made a silly choice.

Right, I think the game makes that pretty clear. My gripe here is more with how Star Wars acts like planets are basically small towns in how hard it is to hide in them, though you're right that Star Wars tech is certainly different than our own.

What was extra strange to me was how his sticking point was the Hidden Path itself. He was fine to have Cal/Cere/Merrin/Cordova on the planet, but the suggestion of a few extra anchorites on the entire world and he suddenly starts going postal on everyone.

I suppose that'll be answered in the sequel. Though I can't see how rumors don't start spreading of how the sky opened up above Koboh, especially with Imperial stragglers surely still on the world. I mean, apparently even the prospectors still had legends about Tanalorr (even using its name), and that would've been passed down for hundreds of years.

I think he turned because he and his allies were denied backup, and were left to fend for themselves when under attack by the Gen Dai or Nihil or whatever the threat was. Which, fair. I can understand being frustrated at an Order that's basically like "uhh, actually, get wrecked, we don't really see you or your work as valuable".

I'm not sure he was alone, either. Outside of maybe in game documents that I haven't read, I'm not sure the game really goes into much depth with the specifics of Dagan's team, but it seems he had other Jedi on his side, too. For instance, there's one (presumably also freed from a bacta tank) that you fight when getting the crossguard saber on the Shattered Moon)... which is another nitpick I have, in that the existence of these other Jedi should also interest Cal a lot more than it seems to.

Yeah, the quick reveal is pretty interesting in how quickly it's made obvious that Cal messed up badly. I just wish that their relationship had some time to develop before he became a relatively bland villain.

Lol yep. Like I said in one of the threads here, I'm like 95% sure that he's purposefully inspired by Sephiroth, especially given the missing wing arm.


But hey, I can't be clear enough that most of this is just me nitpicking. I really did love the game... just felt that the villains could've been written a little better.