SPOILER Star Wars Jedi: Survivor story discussion

Yeah, that was my general take anyway. Bode is supposedly doing what he’s doing for a bond - for a connection, but really he’s only doing it for himself. So even though she’s physically there with her father, she’s emotionally there on her own. And that’s the danger facing Cal. He thinks his assault on the Empire is helping protect his family. But really it’s just about his own selfish desire to hurt the one’s that hurt him - leaving him separated from that family.

It’s saying that maybe fighting isn’t the only way to make a difference. Which is an odd note to strike for a platform that’s pretty thoroughly centered on combat

Good point.

I’m just mentally filling in some blanks, but I’d guess he doesn’t trust the Empire or his place in it. He didn’t have the attitude of a convert, but a ‘if you can't beat 'em, join 'em’ demeanor. He chose the winning side, but he’d rather be on his own side and that flashy hidey hole was his way out.

I feel the tragic backstory with the dead wife locked that in adequately. He tried hiding already. But it didn’t work because there’s nowhere the Empire can’t go…except maybe this Shangri-La planet.

Yeah, I had to make my peace with that back in TCW where every planetary civilization introduced was presented as a single capital city that was either captured or liberated. It’s a whole planet, but we only care about this one town and its surrounding neighborhood?

But I accept that the sensibility of Star Wars is that the planets in this galaxy are basically treated like villages in a kingdom. It’s an easier concept to grasp.

Maybe I was bringing too much Kenobi plot in with me, but I thought the idea was that everyone the Path was keeping hidden from the Empire would relocate there. Not just the folks on Jedha. The more hunted people are there, the greater the risk of its exposure.

OK, yeah, I’m super fuzzy on that whole bit. I got that he felt betrayed. And losing that arm certainly wouldn’t have helped in that regard. But that was the big betrayal? They didn’t want to defend that rock he stuck his flag in? Alright, that makes some sense. Not ‘and now I’ll take over the galaxy!’ sort of sense. But some.

That’s definitely a wrinkle I was totally unaware of. Thanks for that.

Agreed. Because both villains are supposed to be reflections of what the hero is being challenged by, yeah? Dagan is also on a selfish quest that leaves him empty and alone. So the two of them having common ground at first makes sense.

But then have them diverge as Cal chooses the better of two paths while Dagan stays on the destructive one. Cal is invited to see the villain as the extreme outcome of his own struggle. Which is what’s being implied, but doesn’t land very well.

I’m still giggling about his bacta pants. I mean, where did those come from? Was he wearing them under his standard issue Jedi trousers? Someone squeezed him into them before submerging? Are they prescription healing pants? Some antiquated High Republic medical tech? It’s so funny to me, I don’t want to know if there’s an actual answer to this. I just want to continue wondering

 

I think that's a pretty good way of looking at it. If a Kyber crystal is meant to represent a Dark Side user's descent over time, Dagan is kind of an interesting anomaly in how he did turn before his long bath, and though seemingly not conscious during that time, the Dark Side had already started festering in him for a long time. I'm not sure we can just assume the Dark Side goes into cold storage like a popsicle... it could've concentrated in Dagan over the centuries (which could also explain why he sounds like the already Dark Side Anakin doing an impression of a bad guy).

I felt much the same way. I was kind of expecting Vader in Fallen Order, but I didn't think there'd be a rematch this time, for some reason. It just didn't feel like it needed to happen.

But I'm glad it did! But also, like you said, Vader seems to have played his part now. Unless he's just going to show up to kill someone else (which, I mean, seems unnecessary), then I don't really see what role he could play in the third game.

Yeah, I hope they get a happy send off, too. I just hope it's after at least one more game. I feel like this is so much of a cliffhanger right now, still! Not to mention, I feel like Cal and Sorc Tormo have some unresolved business that the previous games have been building. It'd be a shame to never see that through, and a long-running adversary like Sorc would be a great test of Cal's struggle with the dark side.

 

I loved this game. I wasn't too enthusiastic about fighting more inquisitors, but they did a really good job with the villians this time around. Did the Bode turn surprise anyone? I had my finger on that one from the very beginning. The High Republic stuff was worked in so well and I was delighted by the Nihil reference. I never really cared to see Cal in live action, but if they decided to bring back Obi-Wan for another limited series something built around the Path would be interesting if done correctly. I'm sure they'll do another game with Cal, but I'd love for them to do something in the High Republic as well.

 

I did like the theme the story presented throughout, selflessness versus being selfish and fighting for the sake of fighting versus helping the ones you care about and protecting them.

Cal already flirted with dangers of the dark side in Fallen Order, but more so in a warning vision, but him getting there from the start with Ninth Sister after his friends left him and he waged a pointless war against the Empire, man, what an intro. The importance of family in Star Wars resonates over and over again.
His "I am going to save you" and cutting her head off, it already foreshadowed his path and I was like, damn Cal, this is going to be a journey.
Losing hope, no remorse, the dark side is quicker and easier.
As SW Explained pointed out, the skillset and how you unlock it is masterfully done, as the gameplay aspects are heavily intreconnected with the story and meaning in both games, and going against a rancor, you can zen yourself up and master the fighting style and spend some time to defeat the enemy or, tap into the darkness and deal with it quickly and aggresively.
I am bit sad that this mechanic doesn't have any retaliation towards the character, because after that, all those insane fights are at the tip of your analogue sticks and if you just want to relax, breeze through the stuff quickly instead of getting gut, bam, go for the dark side willy nilly.
But from gamers' point of view, keeping that option just so you yourself will have to deal with the idea as a fan and player inside your head is indeed interesting and the game doesn not force you to go any way except for the one story moment.

I must say that I did enjoy Zeffo a bit more than High Republic from archeological point of view, but seeing some of it for the first time in a flesh after reading through Phase 1, I was excited.

I did like Dagan Gera as a villain, but I agree with others, that I didn't understood his motivations that much and he wasn't an explaining type, but as you collect the info throughout the game from force echoes and scans, that weird stuff that kills you on Koboh is some weird power that was supposedly on Koboh before and comes from the Nebula. That was probably the reason for research stations and Jedi studying it, but still doesn't explain much Dagan's motivations. There must be something more behind it, connecting the Koboh, Tanalor and the Nebula and making a reason for Dagan to lose his mind this way as the reason being, you abandoned my planet and temple, I am mad and will kill you all is kinda weak storywise. Anakin had love for Padmé leading into the selfishness, and Bode pretty much reflected it with his daughter and it spiraled them both to a point of no return. Anakin also felt betrayed by the Jedi council, but it wasn't a reason enough to go mad like Dagan did, but one of the parts of the overall mosaic.
So in that regard, outside of coolness and being formidable enemy, Dagan feels like not really fleshed out character in this regard and I felt like just fighting crazy lunatic in my way (with dark side motivations of having own army, harness power and defeat the empire instead of useless and weak Cal of course.)

Bode's betrayal caught me off guard and in the end, his motivations were kinda janky as well later when you meet him for the last stretch... I kinda felt that he will be irredeemable after he shot Cordova in cold blood, but he got to the planet, was safe, why won't he share one big ass planet with others? Was he afraid that they might reveal the location to the Empire through the work of Path?
Based on both of these antagonists, I should probably believe that being selfish leads is going to make you mad and think like a shortcircuited limited lunatic.

I do love the Jedi series a lot storywise and while Fallen Order was actually about being a survivor during Empire rule and being the nice guy, with Zeffo kinda dissappearing from the galaxy, it heavily foreshadowed the Survivor with all of it. Now you get to explore more what it means to be a survivor and how it affects Cal, what it does to a remnant of a long lost history, what it does to a parent, while dealing with the option to leave the imperial rule for good from the point of view of these three survivors with an option not dissimilar to the Zeffo.

I am super satisfied overall and I can't wait to get my hands on third game in the future and in similar way to leaving the Last Jedi cinema experience, I have no idea what they have in store for us.
Cal has seemingly figured out what matters in the end and faced his future in personified form, like he did Third Sister and Malicos, but he did tapped into the Dark Side heavily, after being faced with similar circumstances that Cere had and the question is, will Cal shrug it off story wise next time and will the reason be enough to win and join the ranks of other Star Wars characters like Luke when he faced Vader and Emperor? Or will this have an aftermath and end game in next possible game?
As Yoda said, forever will it dominate your destiny. And Luke in Episode 6 is getting there but in the end is nah, look what it did to my father and I am pretty much on the way, I'd rather day than go there. And in Sequel Trilogy, he went there for a brief moment just to cement the fate of Ben Solo and push the galaxy into another turmoil. I am afraid for Cal, as we did reach a bittersweet but pretty much satisfying conclusion and now we can collect more chests, echoes and finish force tears, but the pandora's box is open.

I'd like to see them exploring an era during the Rebel Civil War in OT or maybe the era after Episode 6. I am huge history maniac in real world and fan of archeology, thus I do love Indiana Jones, Tomb Raider and Uncharted a lot and Jedi hooked me hard from the start with the Zeffo and exploring ancient stuff despite there being the presence of the empire. And that is an aspect of Jedi series that I look forward to. The High Republic stuff was nice, but in comparison to Zeffo, something we already know from the books albeit not visually and will from soon to be Acolyte series, therefore I hope for something like the Zeffo, that we haven't seen before in SW Universe before.

--- Double Post Merged, May 11, 2023, Original Post Date: May 11, 2023 ---

I'd like to see High Republic in full glory as well. More so, I was heavily anticipating the KOTOR remake as it will be a look on Legends era, but cemented in canon if we take for granted that all the stuff they release in any form is actually really happening in the world of movies.
Sadly, that got into development hell and behind the scenes issues with Aspyr and we will see what happens.

I can't wait to see the familiar story but with story group involvement and some changes to make it work in canon.

--- Double Post Merged, May 11, 2023 ---

Anyways, somebody mentioned the enemies with lighstabers you fight to be probably other Jedi, but they are just members of Bedlam Raiders with lightsabers from High Republic era, salvaged from the Koboh and Moon bases.
Only other person from that time present is the Gendai Rayvis, thanks to his lifespan.

But I am also wondering timewise, those lights on the sky above the temple are hinted at and confirmed through databank to be indeed Nihil.
With their path engines, they don't give a damn about the Abyss and show up from hyperspace directly on Tanalor.
But the whole setup of Dagan and Rayvis hints at them fighting around some time, being defeated and pledge himself to Dagan and that I am not sure about.
When did that happen? Was it different conflict? Was Rayvis a Nihil back then?

 

Ok High Republic fans... how big of a threat were the Nihil, really?

I ask because, from what I understand, the High Republic was a time or relative peace. Right?

So, not to beat the dead horse of "Dagan's motivations were weak", but I can totally understand the appeal of a hidden planet for Bode, Cal, the Hidden Path, the Ghost Crew... anyone during the Rebellion era.

And of course, in a Star War, such a thing is strategically invaluable in any era, especially when combined with hyperspace tech. It basically lets you almost (relatively) instantly strike all across the galaxy, with your enemy having no idea where you're coming from or where you could be going. That's huge. You can even see how valuable that plays out in the board game Rebellion, when the Rebel player can use special cards to strike almost anywhere from the Rebel Base. Even as outnumbered as they are, and as pared down in scale the board game is from an actual hypothetical galactic war, this is an incredibly effective tactic.

But Dagan was desperate for Tanalorr, to the point that he let it change him. Like, I get his frustration that he was abandoned by the Jedi. I get how that could make him turn. But why stick around in the first place? Just let the planet go... you already know where it is anyway, so it's no use to the Nihil.

Point is, I'm not sure the High Republic needed Tanalorr nearly as much as the Rebellion.

 

Disney mission accomplished.


I'm not a fan of the whole High Republic crossover thing.







This contrivance is recycled from Dark Horse Comics and not nearly as interesting Karness Muur, Celeste Morne & Cade Skywalker.

 

Not if you enjoyed the game.

My displeasure with the unimaginative, the boring and the recycled has nothing to do with any one else and their playthrough(s). Visually speaking the sequel is stunning, the gameplay is improved... there is a lot to like about those things. But muh direction, the forced gameplay and about half the story were vastly underwhelming to me. Oh well. Still had some fun.

I don't know what that means....
Last I checked, its still OK for Vader to wear black. Droids have bars now. And green people fly starships too!

/shrugs

What I do know is: Fallen Order's sequel has a very boring story.

And I still don't know WHY Vader showed up at the end, other than just because.

Fallen Order was a fun game; a great Star Wars Tale

Second installments RARELY equal or surpass the OG money maker (story wise)....

happens ALL the time. No agenda required.

EDIT:

Critical thought(s) does not require the absence of fondness.

 

I've only read the first one, LotJ, but that was really quite good! It suffered slightly from being the kick-off book (=too many characters to establish), but Charles Soule did a really good job. And I thought the Nihil were a very strong, non-force antagonist faction.

 

YES! Soule is my favorite now, after the end of Dark Horse.

 

The lightsaber never needs trimming, but my beard requires many cuts to remain well shaped.


No offense committed.... No apology required.

 

Yeah, I've only read Claudia Gray's Into the Dark. It was interesting, and I liked how the High Republic content all starts off in this big event... and a humanitarian one at that. In retrospect, I was disappointed because I was expecting Lost Stars, but idk how she could've ever written a new Lost Stars in an otherwise unknown era... but nearly two years later, I do look fondly on the book still.

Hey now, I resent that remark.

 

I need a new tv, a new console and both Star Wars Jedi games... :====

 

I was intimidated by THR as well before reading, as many reviews mentioned plethora of characters and story jumping here and there, but when I actually got to reading The Light Of The Jedi from Soule, yes, different era, new world building but also, lots of familiar stuff...
It was written in a way that I was hooked quickly and it was fun! It was almost like the KOTOR everyone wanted, but interesting and fresh new take with villains that do not seem like a big threat and everyone in the book reacts to them in a similar way like some fans do (Nah, we want Siths but they were out of the picture for 1000 years, boring). But I was proven wrong. Marchion Ro is interesting villain and gets even more interesting through sequels, the concept of Path engines is interesting a lot and overall, cool stuff. I have enjoyed it a ton more than the Thrawn prequels and got attached to many new characters.

Light Of The Jedi is intro to Phase 1 and the reading order is, one major book and one secondary book... Reath Silas is my favorite character in this era with Vernestra Rwoh and I found that while the major book sets up and resolves the big events, everything is interconnected and my most favorite are the small stories with Reath and others, that focus on less characters among all the things happening and actually, these characters transition into the later bigger stories. I also find the ship navigator Geode and his interaction with others more funny that I thought and it always makes me laugh.
After the kind of lackluster small scale books in the new canon, that dealt with small stories and bits and pieces with the movie characters, these are actually pretty good books and stories. I haven't got to phase 2 yet and was a bit letdown by the time shift, but have read some reviews that some of the latest stories are awesome and will check them.

I was reluctant and saw all this hate and sorry to say idiots shouting, that The High Republic is garbage and full of woke agenda, so I was thinking OK, the stories aren't that great that people focus on these things? But the opposite is true! Sure, you have characters with different sexual orientation, pansexual people etc. but it feels natural, part of the story and nowhere near to the opinions of these youtube bigots.
You know, I am not the black and white person who is one or the other extreme, so I am coming into things with critical mind, because everyhing can be effed up and white washing, rainbow washing and green washing are a thing, when the suits in charge are riding the train of buzz and trends, but these stories are really good and I can recommend it to any SW fan. I am huge fan of The High Republic myself and for me, it's the best book series to come up with SW name on it and while the same people slam Leslye Headland for sharing her ideas and personal view, I can't wait to see The Acolyte and where it goes.

 

I have only read the main books in the first phase, but Marchion Ro and the Nihil prove to be a worth adversary to the plans of the Jedi.

 

Sure, I'm not saying they're a pushover or anything.

But do they form an existential threat to the Jedi, like the Empire did to the Rebellion?

Or are they maybe more comparable to the conflict with the Seperatists, maybe even smaller?

 

The Nihil pose a threat not only to the Jedi order, but to the entire High Republic galactic community. They outsmart and even defeat Jedi several times, and the initial threat in LotJ is stopped...

Spoiler: LotJ spoiler

...not by the Jedi themselves, although they offer invaluable support, but by a mundane yet ingenious droid technician.

And then there's the Drengir, basically a borg-like weed species that spreads like a rampant plague. Yeah, the Jedi are mightily challenge in the High Republic, with not a force-villain in sight (as far as I have seen)