SPOILER The Mandalorian S3E8- Chapter 24, The Return

I'm just glad they didn't fill the screen with CGI crap. I hate it when they do that.

 

Any chance Gideon's Clones survived? They made it a point to show a Clone wake up as the glass breaks. Or what if the Gideon they were fighting was a Clone?

 

We didn't see Gideon's clones actually bite it, so maybe? ... as Sam Jackson said, you didn't actually see me die, I'm a Jedi I can survive a fall greater than that... (paraphrasing) haha just joking.

I think Gideon searched good and well and didn't find any surviving clones as he has mentioned. I believe this story thread is just to fill in blanks on how Palps returns, nothing more; It would be cool to see Gideon's clones running around but thats all it would be just cool. I remembered the first time GL mentioned clones, ohhh so cool... hehe. I imagined a bunch of Obi-Wan Kenobi's running around in different locations in the galaxy performing all sorts of espionage and pillage.

 

Just to play contrarian...

The rule of thumb in Saturday Matinee Villainhood is that if you don't see the dead body of your baddie, he ain't dead. If SW can bring Maul back after being cut in half, it's not that wild to suspect that Gideon -- wearing a super-duper armored suit -- could survive an explosion.

I'm not sayin' he'll be back for S4, just that we haven't seen the last of Moff Gideon.

 

You said it better than me... I don't know whether to give this post a wise, or funny. Great post nonetheless!!!

 

True that! We were discussing while back at the beginning of the season, how Gideon is basically that Saturday cartoon villain, coming back every time with greater power, better resources and greater schemes…
I won’t be surprised to see him next time with some burns, some prosthetics or anything, saying that somehow, dark trooper armor is pathway to many survival abilities

 

Don't hate. Appreciate.

 

Just finished watching with my friend, and our biggest compliment was that the episode was pretty.

My quick review since I don't have a lot of time:

This episode was a no-frills, no filler finale full of solid action* and great effects. Usually that's a good thing, but I was hoping for more and that was really all I got. It's a decent capstone to a pretty...uneven season, to say the least. This season had a lot of unnecessary backtracking** and random incidents*** that were needed to push the plot forward that culminated in a finale that felt hollow and frankly unsatisfying.
Again, Star Wars continues the trend of confirming relationships that fans have more-or-less assumed since Day 1, and making a big deal out of it when none needs to be made. (I'm STILL annoyed about how Kanan and Hera's relationship was handled.)
Again, Star Wars continues on trying to make villains threatening when they've lost multiple times in multiple ways instead of making them competent and capable of victory without relying on the incompetence of others or, you know, replacing them. (I was all on-board with Moff Gideon's return and his stature as one of the better villains in the Disney era, but he lost that all this episode.)

Overall, I still like The Mandalorian and where the show ends and the characters and the world, but this wasn't the best episode to display the best of the show.


*Really, when did Din learn all of that physical combat stuff? It felt like they got a new stunt double for this episode who also worked on John Wick, and it raised my expectations for Din's fights in future outings.
**The IG-11 plot and the "plot of land on Nevaroo" plot are the most egregious.
***The random bomber that blows up Bo-Katan's house and I don't think is ever seen again. (Correct me if I'm wrong though!) The entirety of the Lizzo episode. I liked the cameo and had fun with the absurdity of the episode, but I would have preferred if they cut it out, recruited the other Mandalorians earlier, and focused on getting the two sides to work together rather than an unnecessary neo-noir episode.

 

For the record, I enjoyed the LIZZO episode. It felt like the Prequels, but maybe because I also enjoyed the Book of Boba Fett as well. I really don't know what Star Wars fans expect from Star Wars... Andor? The first 2 season's of Mando were new and exciting. This season as Jon Favreau has commented publicly is a set up for season 4. I don't think the scale of this season was brought down from the previous two. I think expectations and wants is what is getting in the way of some enjoying this season.

Din Djarin was created because JF could not use Boba Fett at the time. This would have been a Boba Fett series. That's why we were given an aging Boba Fett. JF created a new person in the suit. Its a Lone Wolf and Cub tale / Western in the Star Wars Universe. At the end of chapter 24 we see Lone Wolf and Cub at home... end of season.

Some this season wanted the story to just focus on Mando and Din Grogu... thats ludicrous... I think some of those individuals need to go back and watch some Westerns.

Film is subjective, not everyone is going to enjoy the same things, so if you didn't like this season that absolutely fine. Same issues since 1999 with Prequels, expectations can ruin one's enjoyment.

This season we actually saw Mandalorians training. From foundlings to full grown Mandalorian combatants, so Din Djarin like all the Shaw Brothers studio kung-fu films utilizes a mass array of combat skills, Judo, Juijitsu, etc., I think you are fresh out the theatre of John Wick 4... HAHA

So yeah, if you want and an example of a bad Star Wars episode just review the LIZZO episode... we get it.

Old Crazy Wizard Rant over... move on all, move on...

 

Does anyone else feel like Din need's a new primary weapon?

He lost the Amban rifle a long time ago when the Razor Crest blew up and he doesn't seem properly equipped at long-range. The IB-94 pistol just doesn't cut it

To make things even worse, he doesn't have the Beskar spear or the dark saber anymore

I would suggest the show writers come up with a new design for a disruptor rifle. Something that feels a little bit different though

I would pick a disruptor rifle based on the Old West "44 Henry" breach-loading rifle. It is a "lever gun" and the pump-action motion would be cool to see Din operate. Very Old West. What do you all think?

One with a scope would be optimal (see second pic)

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 22, 2023, Original Post Date: Apr 22, 2023 ---

Another pic of a Henry rifle sans scope

 

While I hope that you're wrong... I can't find a flaw in your logic.

 

Yes, absolutely agree. It seems strange that we haven't had an arc with him finding a replacement of some kind. Could have easily been found in the mines of Mandalore when he was taken by the spider droid. Perfect place to find a scavenged Mandalorian weapon.

And I would've liked to see more rifles on the Mandalorians in general. There's a point to be made that they were down to their pistols after being nomads for so long, but they captured that imperial cargo ship in S2 for the weapons cache and had an imperial light cruiser which must've had an armory of some kind.

 

I forgot which Mandalorian behind the scenes special it was on Disney+, but Jon Favreau was telling George Lucas about his fond memories of the Boba Fett animated short in the Star Wars Holiday special. he thought the disruptor rifle was really cool, but Lucas said he did not create the disruptor rifle it wasn't his idea. the animators that created the short thought that up. Favreau was taken aback by this revelation, so I think it was taken out of the show or his arsenal, discreetly, or rather not so abruptly...

The Armorer melted down the spear because beskar steel should not be used as a weapon, but for armor, I can't recall which episode that either (I'm getting old LOL, just joking) but it was in season 2 I believe.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 23, 2023, Original Post Date: Apr 23, 2023 ---

Hopefully...

 

I did too, for what it was. (And it really did at times, although I attributed that to the graphics.) I just don't think enjoying something means that it's free of reasonable expectations, respectable critique, or wishing for something different in hindsight.

Yeah...that show was NOT for me. But I also just think that a show form was the wrong form of medium for the story told. (And I'll say this until someone convinces me otherwise!)

The blessing and the curse of Star Wars being what it is, is that it means so many different things to so many different people. This means that not everyone can or will be pleased with everything. Sure, there can be general trends, but the reasoning behind those trends can be irreconcilable differences also.*

Yeah, but it doesn't match what he's previously shown doing for the most part. Din is a gunslinger who uses weapons first, then knives at close range if his blaster and bombs and things don't work, and more pragmatic melee moves if needed. Tripping opponents, sliding, and overall agility aren't his preferred method, at least that's not how I remember it. That's more of Bo-Katan and the Nite Owls thing. So seeing it here was very...surprising. A welcome one, but a surprise all the same.

LOL I wish! I've been waiting to see it with my dad on a weekend where we're both free. That being said, the combat used to take out the Dark Troopers was very much like the combat John Wick used to take out the armored soldiers in Parabellum.

Or I can critique both at once, since the finale gives us a great chance to look back and reflect on the season, the journey taken, and the paths we could have taken to get here.

Honestly, I found him more formidable in both previous encounters. In the first one he was the mysterious Moff who knew all of our heroes better than we knew them, and came in far better prepared. In Season Two, he was a warrior on the cusp of victory, and the added context of his actions regarding Mandalore cast him in a darker light. Here, he was just...back again, for the third time.

I felt that more here than in Season 2, to be honest. But that's just me. Here, most of the moves that were Gideon's, I had attributed to Thrawn off-screen or Palpatine.

Great for two seasons, bad for the third. Nowadays I have a pretty low tolerance for villains who can't win at least one of two encounters, or only win due to the incompetence of the heroes or those around them. To me, these aren't good villains anymore, they're punching bags for our heroes. By that point, I don't care about their story or conflict with the hero, because we've seen the outcome before. It's why I didn't want Rey to fight Kylo Ren in TROS, or even Finn to fight Phasma in TLJ. Both of our heroes had beaten their main antagonists in the most important and decisive way (Rey by resisting Kylo, taking the saber, and not killing him when she had the chance; Finn by gaining independence and turning Phasma into a traitor so she could save her own skin), so another confrontation would just be pointless.

Hard disagree here. It was cheesy and impersonal, and not very thematic at all IMO...and that's all assuming he died. We were just shown clones of him, and we didn't see a body. Gideon's coming back, one way or another.

Thanks for the info!

But they don't need it, and that's the grievance I have with it. The Mandalorians literally gained the plot of land in one episode and abandoned it for their home planet not even two episodes later. They didn't need to be included in that arc, and it annoys me that they were if all they were going to do was abandon it. I'd rather they cut that scene out and just have the Mandalorians be praised as heroes. Din can eventually take up the offer for the plot of land in the finale, and it bookends the season. Done.

But not the in context promised or teased, nor in any meaningful way in regard to the character or the story. (So far at least.) They could have dropped the whole arc after R5 was included, and I assumed they did. Repurposing him into a carrier for Grogu was a nice ending also. Bringing him back was unnecessary and felt more like a weird third ending to an arc.

In retrospect, yes. My point is that they didn't need to blow up Bo-Katan's home to force her to leave. She was literally leaving. Blowing it up was pointless, and introducing Gideon's fighters when he wasn't really teased that well to return was a weird choice.

Earlier today my dad got pizza for lunch for the family. I had been out all morning, so I enjoyed the pizza. But it wasn't a style of pizza that I usually like, and I would have preferred he had ordered from our usual place or from a place I like.

The Lizzo episode was similar. Did I like it? To the extent that I could. Did I enjoy the campiness? Yes. Would I have traded it out for something more related to the plot, or at least something that would have deepened the bond between Din and Bo-Katan in a meaningful way if nothing else? 100%.

Liking or enjoying something doesn't mean you can't wish it was something else. The two aren't mutually exclusive. I can like vanilla ice cream and wish it was chocolate. I can enjoy a burger and wish I was eating a steak. I can enjoy the camp of an episode and wish it was removed for something more meaningful to the story.

I want it cut because that entire subplot was filler. They could have just said "sure, go see the Mandalorians on the planet" and erased literally the entire plot of the episode. Which could have made room for something else. Sure, the creators may have loved this subplot, but to me, this felt like it should have been a "Kill Your Darlings" moment, and the time allocated to a better subplot or tied into a different arc.

And I wouldn't mind that being cut as well, although that had much more story relevance IMO.** But suddenly, if we cut that and the whole Plazir 15 arc, we have time for two more episodes...like, say, two episodes of The Mandalorian that were in BOBF, so Boba Fett can star in his own show again and solve issues on his own...? Or just cut out the Plazir 15 stuff and do a follow up to the Coruscant stuff.

Eh, I'd say it's more akin to what Filoni did in sillier episodes of TCW and Rebels than Favreau's brand so far.





*When I was in my "I don't really like and know how to feel about TLJ" phase, I met a person who disliked TLJ because Finn didn't die, and he thought Finn sacrificing himself would make the movie better. Even back then, to me, TLJ had its problems, but Finn's death wouldn't have fixed those issues. (It should be noted that now I love and respect RJ and TLJ. I still have fundamental issues with RJ's portrayal of certain characters like Hux, Finn, and Phasma, but that doesn't diminish my love for the move.)
**I honestly thought the clone strand stuff was about Snoke, not Gideon. It didn't fit Gideon's character at all in my head, and the whole assassination attempt felt like Palpatine covering up that he's still researching cloning for things rather than Gideon wanting to get rid of a loose end. In that regard, that subplot, like the experiments done on Grogu, would be tied to TROS and explaining Palpatine's return in the Canon rather than Gideon's little experiments.