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TLJ is PURE Star Wars... but backwards

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by Amalgam, Dec 20, 2017.

  1. Amalgam

    Amalgam Rebelscum

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    I've seen a lot of criticism for TLJ in the form of "it doesn't feel like Star Wars!"

    This argument to me doesn't really make any sense. TLJ is extremely similar to other Star Wars films in content and even structure, just not *outcomes*. It is also eerily similar to ESB & ROTJ which we all hoped it would, while simultaneously it wouldn't.

    I'll prove it by stating the arguments of why TLJ "isn't Star Wars" or "doesn't feel right" by comparing it to things that already took place that we've learned to accept & even *love* about previous movies.

    - Snoke, the big bad, dies with no backstory
    --- Snoke is killed in his throne room after an epic confrontation & betrayal, just like Sidious, with no backstory, just like Sidious. The only difference is his exposition was sped forward one movie & he was betrayed not out of altruism by his disciple, but out of selfishness (previous SW storyline, backwards)

    - Phasma just dies! She was supposed to be badass!
    --- Boba Fett

    - DJ is scummy & only serves to betray our heroes
    --- Lando, except instead of Lando's redemption DJ doubles down on being scummy (it's backwards)

    - Luke is not what I expected. That's not he should act.
    --- Grandmaster of the Jedi Yoda in ESB. Is that what you expected? Except where Yoda is optimistic Luke is pessimistic (it's BACKWARDS). Luke/Rey both go into Dark Side saturated zones & experience illusions from the Dark. They both flee the planet to save someone, Luke his friends, Rey her enemy (it's *backwards*)

    - Luke force projects, that's not a canon Force power! That's not how the Force works!
    --- Until ESB the Force was only a spiritual energy, the only active "power" was the Jedi Mind Trick. The Force couldn't even move things or effect the physical world. In ROTJ they introduced the Force Lightning. In TPM they introduced the Force creating life. There is nothing "new" about a new Force power.

    - Luke just dies! What the ****! There was no point he could have lived! Now Rey is alone!
    --- Ben Kenobi becomes one with the Force in an extremely similar situation in ANH, leaving Luke "alone" in the world to rebuild the Jedi. Yoda does the same to Luke later in ROTJ.

    ---The Battle of Crait is the Battle of Hoth except it takes place at the end of the film. Almost the exact same situation, rebels outnumbered on a white planet, pinned down in bunkers, escape after heavy losses.

    ---The main Hero is left without a lightsaber

    My point is, The Last Jedi is PURE Star Wars! It's original, plays with previous motifs & riffs off of them, creating something NEW & creative to the story of Star Wars. It wasn't predictable like we thought it was, *& that is what upset people*, but it wasn't unpredictable out of left field. It was unpredictable because it didn't act on our notions of what Star Wars *was* & instead introduced it's own story of what Star Wars *is*, or even *could be*.
     
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  2. Messi

    Messi G.O.A.T.

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    Yeah. Both are left with no weapon at the end. Well, Rey has it but she will needs to fix it.
    Good.post.
     
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  3. LilyInTheSkywalker

    LilyInTheSkywalker Rebel Official

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    I disagree that it was out of selfishness but great points!
     
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  4. Withred

    Withred Rebel Official

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    We also had another Anakin Padme like romance. Except subverted and better written (and its debatedly romantic).

    I think he betrayed her out of spurned love.
     
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  5. LilyInTheSkywalker

    LilyInTheSkywalker Rebel Official

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    It's clear that he thinks she's betrayed him by allying herself with the man who tried to kill him. If she betrayed him, then Snoke was being honest when he said that the whole force bond thing was the result of his manipulation. So everything that they shared was a lie.

    Then they connect again towards the end.

    That's when my boy realises he f!ked up.
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 20, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 20, 2017 ---
    Next-gen Across the Stars WHEN?
     
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  6. Withred

    Withred Rebel Official

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    Yup. That last look broke me bad.
     
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  7. Dawn

    Dawn Rebel General

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    I agree, it felt 100% SW to me.
     
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  8. Withred

    Withred Rebel Official

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    Even the few awkward bits reminded me of the PT, in a good way. Obi wan is still best Jedi tho.
     
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  9. Dawn

    Dawn Rebel General

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    Exactly.

    What? No one beats Luke. He was the best Jedi (as seen in ROTJ), and later on he understood where the order went wrong, why it failed, and why it needed to end. He's objectively the wisest force user we've seen.
     
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  10. Withred

    Withred Rebel Official

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    Ok. Ok. They both have beards. They both win.
     
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  11. Dawn

    Dawn Rebel General

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    hahaha

    I do love Obi-Wan, he's my favorite in the prequels, but let's face it...
     
  12. Withred

    Withred Rebel Official

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    Yeah. His fashion sense is terrible.
     
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  13. Valim

    Valim Rebel General

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    Star Wars movie, with added goofyness.
     
  14. TheGreyandTheRed

    TheGreyandTheRed Rebel General

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    His 3 prequel haircuts attest to that
     
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  15. Withred

    Withred Rebel Official

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    And robes are so last century.
     
  16. Amalgam

    Amalgam Rebelscum

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    Selfishness may not be the right word but IMO Kylo's mindset behind killing Snoke was very similar to Vader pre-redemption. "Join me & we can rule the galaxy" he wants to seize control, a very Dark Side motif. Do you agree that it is similar to the Vader/Emperor/Luke storyline except backwards?
     
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  17. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    Kylo is upside down Luke, to me....
    Where Luke went light, Kylo went dark.

    Coincidentally this makes him a lot more like what I think people *expected* with Anakin in the PT.
     
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  18. LilyInTheSkywalker

    LilyInTheSkywalker Rebel Official

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    I don't think he had a plan before he saw that empty throne tbh. He was following orders until he was not. It's more like a twist on the rotj throne room scene than the estb "join me" spiel.
     
  19. Dawn

    Dawn Rebel General

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    haha
     
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  20. Withred

    Withred Rebel Official

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    Haw haw
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 21, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 21, 2017 ---
    Or TeeHeeHee TeeHeeHee "giggle"
     
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