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What's the purpose of a Saga, vs a SW story?

Discussion in 'General Sequel Trilogy Discussion' started by Sparafucile, Jan 31, 2019.

  1. Sparafucile

    Sparafucile Rebel Official

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    I think this might be one of the issues Disney is facing regarding SW.

    To me a saga trilogy needs to establish a few things. One, it has to be Force users, if not Jedi vs Sith, at least a play on that take (Grey Jedi vs Dark Force user ect...). So it's basically the battle of good vs evil, either form without, as an evil Empire, or from within, as Grey Jedi trying to figure things out about themselves and their shadow and their personal motivations.

    Second, I think it needs to establish some world building, a sense of scale and build a setting. The first two trilogies have done this well, this one has struggled, but it isn't over yet and I think JJ may be focused on trying to develop that in IX as it seems to be one complaint of the ST that is mostly universal.

    As such, the players within a saga film should be larger then life. The elite of the universe, the exceptional, the exception of the rule ect... as with the weapons and battles. It should be the best weapons, the most influencial battles, the biggest stakes should be at hand. To me, a saga movie or set of movies should be all of the above. As much a battle of ideologies, governments, rulers and such, as it should be multi faceted. The story should have different threads, all major in their own way. Think RotJ with it's three battles, Endor, space battle and throne room.

    A SW stories should be missing some of these. They can have one, but likely not the Jedi, unless it's a mundane Jedi or Force user. They could have a super weapons, but not complete, or with misfit heroes instead of the cream of the crop. A SW story, to me, should be more about ordinary people rather then Chosen ones. It should take place within an established time of a specific saga, or close to or approximating to a saga. The Chosen one exists, but are not the center of this story.

    Then of course we have the possibility of alternate Saga's or trilogies, and it makes them all the more important. RJ's or the GoT guys. I think Solo was intended to be that, but its financial failure likely derailed those plans. I think alternate Saga's may find a niche somewhere in the middle of SW stories and saga stories, at least at first, maybe more closely resembling SW stories and if they catch on then maybe grow them to alternate saga's in their own right. In this way we can explore different places, different times within the SW universe.

    I think a challenge moving forward, will be making the SW stories movies not feel like an episode of a live action TV show, and not as grande as a Saga movie. There's a tiny space in between and that's where they need to operate, more as a tag on to a main story, relevant, but not quite essential, but advantageous to have. With the addition of live action TV series, it will be that much more difficult to make SW story movies relevant. It may even be that Rogue One and Solo will be anomalies moving forward, unique as being the only 2 SW story movies ever produced, simply because the need of such stories can be better explored, and more nuanced in a TV series. Seriously, I think Rogue One would have potentially been better as a TV series. Then again, the short form of a movie has it's appeal also.

    What do you think, is there anything that defines a saga story vs a SW story? I'm I close to the mark? Have you even thought about it in these terms? Do they even have to follow such strict criteria?
     
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  2. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    I think it's all arbitrary.
    The "Saga" right now is only viewed in the way of "The Skywalker Saga" so by default is tightly connected about it.
    But in the future? Eh. It's all arbitrary and whatever the consumer expects it to be
     
  3. Jaxxon

    Jaxxon Force Sensitive

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    In my mind, the division is pretty simple.

    Saga films concern the massive historical shifts of power in the galaxy. They're concerned with shifting "ages," like we've been seeing in the comics (Age of Republic, Age of Rebellion, etc).

    Star Wars Stories tell smaller tales within those ages. I don't think you'll ever see a massive universe-altering shift in a Star Wars story.
     
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  4. Xeven

    Xeven Rebel General

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    Saga is about Anakin Skywalker.
     
  5. Use the Falchion

    Use the Falchion Rebel Official

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    This! Saga films have to do with generational events - we could technically have a saga about a family that's not the Skywalkers but lived through the same events.

    The Star Wars Stories are like anthologies. They aren't beholden to a single family or event. They can take place anywhere over anything.
     
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  6. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    Saga movies should be about big themes (feel big), and standalone films should be about more smaller/gritty stories (feel small).

    I think Disney has succeeded in that respect with the standalones as they feel small, but in a good way. The ST movies feel small too (in a bad way) and that’s where they differ from the PT/OT.

    There were real stakes in the PT/OT. Luke’s parentage feels big as that answer has grave consequences in ROTJ. Rey’s parentage now feels small because it really doesn’t carry any major consequences in Episode 9.
     
  7. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Force Sensitive

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    I wonder if it would have felt small if the Franchise had never actively stoked speculation about her parentage. Because to me it doesn't that crucial to the overall trilogy and super story. But it comes off really flat and detrimentally subversive to cultivate the discussion among the fans, and then says, she is the child of no one. That's something we could have established in TFA and made a non-issue going forward.
     
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  8. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    They definitely played to the those mystery boxes in TFA (and that fueled speculation) and than sort of turned it around on the fans, "Well.....it is your fault for speculating!!" I actually think it would have played more interesting if we knew she was a nobody right from the start and than people in the Resistance could have had doubts about her, "Oh...she's not a Skywalker, how can she save us?" That would have jived better with TLJ Luke as THAT could have changed him right from the start of the movie. Now he had this new prodigy who wasn't tainted by the old Jedi ways (or family bloodline) and he could teach her a new way to deal with the Force, and fight the First Order.
     
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  9. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Force Sensitive

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    I agree 100%, and I think it speaks to (to some extent) a bit of laziness on the franchise's part. If you want people to be interested in Rey, do the work, and write the story that makes us interested in her. She doesn't need Skywalker coattails to move forward and as a franchise you obviously agree because you didn't make her a blood relative. Why not just do that from the jump? If you just had to have a mystery box, it could have been Rey's power coming out of nowhere which Luke (as a Master Jedi) explains to her (and us the audience) in TLJ. I mean he's been sitting there with the ancient Jedi text, I'm pretty sure we could write a quick explanation for why she is the way she is that doesn't require us to jettison what we have seen thus far (i.e. Force Users requiring training).
     
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  10. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    I agree as they should have given Rey some flaw that was addressed in the 2nd movie like Luke & Anakin. Anakin's flaw was attachment, and the fear of losing people. Luke's flaw was that he wasn't patient always trying to be more than he was. Maybe Rey's flaw is that she didn't want to put the work/training in to become a Jedi because things came so easy to her in TFA.
     
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  11. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Force Sensitive

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    I think the counter argument here will be that her flaw was her desire for a family and so she went out seeking that from Luke and then Kylo (I'm not sure if it's a dog that hunts because in both instances I thought was being communicated was that she was looking for someone to save the Resistance). Rey does have flaws (naivete comes to mind) but nothing that has hindered her development towards being a competent Force User. Her ascent towards mastery has been unimpeded and essentially independent of the rest of her development.
     
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  12. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Sensitive

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    Saga stories are sweeping stories that touch on monumental historical events of GFFA.

    The SW stories are tight character pieces that cover a much smaller scope narratively.

    At least that is how it has operated so far.
     
  13. CTrent29

    CTrent29 Rebel Official

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    The length of the story one wants to tell.
     
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