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Why did the Jedi think the Sith were extinct.

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by FallenAngel, Feb 7, 2016.

  1. FallenAngel

    FallenAngel Rebelscum

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    i am just re looking at the prequels, what is it that led the Jedi to believe the Sith had become all but extinct?

    Any references would be much appreciated?

    i ask this because we assume the rule of two to be in effect but the prequels actually contain sidious, doku, maul, and Vader. This makes it difficult to ascertain where this is actually a rule of many era, or still rule of two.
     
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  2. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    I think it was because there was no strong presence of the darkside, no assassination attempts on jedi masters in any system so there was nothing to fear but never forget.
     
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  3. SegNerd

    SegNerd Rebel Official

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    The Sith were hiding from the Jedi on purpose. After being defeated by the Jedi in ancient times, the Sith were secretly regrouping under the reformation of Darth Bane until they were ready to seek revenge.

    The rule of two means that there are only two Sith at a time, to prevent the infighting that undermined them previously. Count Dooku didn't get recruited to the Sith until after the death of Darth Maul (or at least his removal from the Sith order, if you take TCW as canon), and Anakin didn't become a Sith until after the death of Dooku. Palpatine and Vader each express interest in killing the other so that they can take Luke as an apprentice. There are never more than two Sith at the same time, and the rule of two is upheld.
     
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  4. FallenAngel

    FallenAngel Rebelscum

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    i think they say doku has been missing for ten years. if you stop being a jedi, its because you have been turned?
     
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  5. SegNerd

    SegNerd Rebel Official

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    Dooku is one of the "Lost Twenty" - that means there were 19 other Jedi who left the order, and none of them is known to have turned.

    Although she was never actually a Jedi, Ahsoka demonstrates how it is possible to leave the Jedi without turning evil.
     
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  6. JediMasterRobert

    JediMasterRobert Rebel Official

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    Yoda had cautioned how difficult it was to detect the Dark Side of the Force in The Phantom Menace:

    The Jedi usually went by their knowledge and awareness of galactic affairs, often via the Senate, and primarily relied on their being in tune with the Force, sensing disturbances when things were of such a magnitude to register and be felt.

    Palpatine was hidden in plain sight, working alongside the Jedi, and able somehow to exist as a Sith without immediately drawing their attention.

    A major part of this had little to do with his use of the Force: his manipulations were more political, behind the scenes, ever working to set the galaxy at war with itself so he could enter at just the right time to declare his Empire.

    At the end of The Phantom Menace, Mace and Yoda muse about Darth Maul and who he was:

    The rule-of-two era Sith could move relatively undetected across the galaxy as long as they did not attract the Jedi. So covertly did they move, so carefully did they plot, that they were able to have all the pieces in place before the Jedi could sense them and act:

    For the Jedi, some of this was pure complacence: not having been challenged in so long and accepting of the fact, based on that extended era of non-engagement, such adversaries were thought to be impossible, extinct.

    Another part could be because the Jedi did not dabble in Dark Side Force use, and most Masters only seemed to know of it indirectly: what lead to it, how dangerous it was.

    Yoda exhibited rare Dark Side knowledge (e.g. the Cave on Dagobah, probing the Dark Side in seclusion in Attack of the Clones), but even he -- right in front of Palpatine -- admits, "Impossible to see. The Dark Side clouds everything."

    There's also this exchange between Yoda and Mace Windu:

    and this one:

    Yoda reveals it to be a weakness of the Jedi at this point.

    Regarding this from a Prequel Trilogy era Sith point of view: "Good thing the rule of two was in effect."

    Had the rule of two not been in place, the Jedi would have almost certainly detected massive disturbances in the Force as perpetual infighting was the very nature of the Sith before Darth Bane came along to establish the rule of two.

    JediMasterRobert
     
    #6 JediMasterRobert, Feb 8, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2016
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  7. Lord of the Rens

    Lord of the Rens HATES: Clumsy AND Stupid

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    IIRC, the technical answer was filled in by TCW cartoon... Bane's backstory was altered when he was buried on Korriban (I don't give a womprats ass what the kids are calling it these days.) The Jedi falsely believed that the last of Sith was destroyed when Bane was defeated and interred.

    And it is THAT change which leads me to think Plagueis will replace Zannah and be retconned into Bane's male apprentice (per TPM novel) who survived for a thousand years in the shadows until Palpatine attacked him while he slept.

    Snoke will be Plagueis if Zannah is no more... that's my theory, for now.
     
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  8. Amanaman

    Amanaman Rebel Official

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    This is just speculation on my part but I would think that the only reason the Jedi had no clue about the Sith was because these had chosen to act from the shadows and not openly for so many years. Sure the Jedi mention that the Dark Side clouds everything but even if this weren't the case, can somebody really get to the point of knowing exactly if said individual was a Sith? The same thing could be said about the Jedi. Can a Dark Side user just figure out that said individual is a Jedi because of what he feels? We all have learned that both the Jedi and the Sith are just types of religions that some people follow and that it doesn't mean that everyone dark is Sith and everyone light is Jedi.

    When Yoda confronted Dooku in Geonosis, Yoda felt the Dark Side in him and it was this that led him to think that Dooku was a Sith just because they were the Jedi's main enemies but what would have happened if instead of Dooku, Yoda would have faced a Nightsister who carried a lightsaber? Wouldn't Yoda have felt exactly the same that he felt from Dooku? There was no way of Yoda knowing if said individual was a Sith or a Nightsister by just feeling the Dark Side within just as a Sith wouldn't know if an individual was a Jedi or a Dagoyan Master just because he felt the Light Side in said person.

    Even within the Sith and the rule of two there were many others out there as Plagueis himself mentioned that there were always more Sith in the galaxy but it was just his way of thinking that he reguarded those of his ideals to be the true Sith. If Yoda was to confront one of these guys not from Bane's line of thought, once more, wouldn't he feel exactly the same he would feel from a Bane line Sith, a Nightsister or even a Dark Side infused being like Savage Opress instead of having a little beep in his head warning him that this wasn't really a Sith?
     
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  9. Vader_the_White

    Vader_the_White Rebel General

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    1) It has been confirmed that Snoke is not Plagueis.
    2) People are putting WAY too much emphasis on a character who's sole purpose was to be bait for Anakin's fall to the Dark Side.
     
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  10. Lord of the Rens

    Lord of the Rens HATES: Clumsy AND Stupid

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    Six months ago; when I wrote that, the Snoke = Plagueis flower was still in full bloom.:)

    That's years a boatload of work just put a worm on a hook. But whatever.
     
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  11. Vader_the_White

    Vader_the_White Rebel General

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    1) Sorry, I didn't notice that.
    2) How is it a boatload of work? Plagueis was first mentioned in Revenge of the Sith and was only mentioned as "Hey Anakin, did you know that there was once a Sith who could stop others from dying (hey, didn't you have a vision that your secret pregnant wife might die in childbirth)? And he totally taught his apprentice (which may or may not be me) how to do it? Yep, the Sith are awesome. Way better than the Jedi." And that's about all Plagueis had to do with the films.
     
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  12. Darth Sidious

    Darth Sidious Rebel Official

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    Something happened 1000 years before TPM that made the Jedi think both Sith were dead, but in truth at least one of them survived.
     
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  13. SegNerd

    SegNerd Rebel Official

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    1000 years before TPM, there were way more than two Siths, and they were in charge. In-fighting among the Siths allowed the Jedi to overthrow them and establish the Republic. This is why Darth Bane's reformation established the rule of two, to avoid in-fighting and continue their existence in secret.
     
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  14. PrincessLeiaCB3

    PrincessLeiaCB3 The Princess that was Promised
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    TCW is canon. He was considered dead, but he was alive. That's why Dooku comes into scene as the new Sith apprentice for Darth Sidious.
     
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  15. SegNerd

    SegNerd Rebel Official

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    Yes, TCW is canon according to Disney. I just meant that some people have a "personal canon," and I simply cannot accept the resurrection of Darth Maul into my canon. Dude got cut in half! :confused:

    I don't mean any offense to people who do like the resurrection, and the episodes can still be fun to watch even if they aren't in my personal canon.
     
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  16. GingerByte

    GingerByte Guest

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    TCW seems to suggest that Bane did not kill the other Sith, he was merely the only survivor. That is all that is canon at the moment :).

    Witches didn't need lightsabers. Powerful ones like Mother Talzin can conjure enchanted swords that can withstand lightsabers, remember?
     
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  17. Abishai100

    Abishai100 Rebelscum

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    This is the best analysis, IMO. The Sith were thought of as dangerous 'elements' skulking around randomly in the shadows but not as an eminent presence threatening large-scale governance. That is what Darth Sidious gave the Sith (with Maul's help) in Phantom Menace.

    bane1.jpg
     
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  18. WallyAllen52

    WallyAllen52 Clone

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    TCW is offical cannon,it's even referred as one of the "immovable objects of the Star Wars universe" by George Lucas.
     
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  19. SKB

    SKB Force Sensitive

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    Because the Sith had not been around for "a thousand generations". Episode I's Jedi Council scene pretty much says that.
     
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  20. Canadian Ronin

    Canadian Ronin Rebel General

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    I remember a long time ago someone saw Georges notes on the history of the Galaxy, Jedi and Sith which talked about the history in a very general way. Who knows if this info will be used by the current story team but.......we get something different.

    2,000+ years before TPM there was no galaxy wide government.
    2,000 before TPM the Sith (before the rule of two) took over the entire Galaxy and ruled with an ironfist.
    1,000 before TPM the Jedi finally succeeded in over throwing the Sith Empire, they were aided greatly by the Sith weakening themselves by infighting for power. Durign this conflict the Jedi believed all the Sith were killed by Jedi or by other Sith. This set up the galaxy we see in TPM - the 1,000 year old Republic, Jedi Order tied closely to it believing their enemies they defeated 1,000 were gone.
     
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