Why is backstory so important?

RE: Snoke's backstory

 

Or maybe the way to write stories evolved in 2018 with all the TV shows having deep plots, deep backstories and you know, where things are tied enough to keep people interested for many years.

 

As a writer you always need to ask yourself: "How useful is a backstory? Do you need to tell the viewers/readers?"

Backstories are mainly a tool for the writers to create and form a character, to identify/develop his/her traits. But most backstories aren’t important enough to be included in the main storyline.

Backstories are only necessary if they enhance the plot. Snoke's backstory wouldn't really enhanced the overall story. He was a plot device for Kylo's development after all. Rey's backstory on the other side...

 

Because at that point, it was just a movie and not yet a saga ?

That's the very difference between these two.

 

The reason I believe They should have given us Snoke's backstory, or at least snippets of it, is because he is the sole reason why the sequel trilogy exists. He is the one that formed the First order from the remains the the galactic empire. He is the one who corrupts Kylo Ren and the other jedi.
Its hard to swallow the fact that everything the OT achieved was undone by this one guy who just dies before he does anything really interesting on screen.

Right now, he mostly feels like a plot device to restart the franchise.

 

A backstory is only important as long as it is relevant to the main story...

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 5, 2018, Original Post Date: Jul 5, 2018 ---

Maybe tweet at Rian

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 5, 2018 ---

.

 

Right. Like the Emperor was before 1999.
The Emperor in the OT is basically there to give Vader a chance to redeem himself. Without a "greater evil" the villainous Darth Vader can't really be redeemed. He needs to prove his being saved by doing something heroic. And defeating a greater evil just that. All we know is that he controls Darth Vader therefore is more powerful. He's there to be taken out by Vader as the catalyst for his turn. Just like Snoke is for Ren.

 

ANH did give us a little bit of Vader's backstory. We had context for Vader's motivations through Ben's converstation with Luke: a Jedi killer, and former Jedi himself, who betrayed and murdered Luke's dad; and when Tarkin talks about Vader being all that's left of the Jedi. And this context was reinforced by Vader's actions in the film. It wasn't much, but it was all we needed to set Vader up in our imaginations as a horrible, evil guy.

 

The problem here with Snoke is that he was alive during Palps reign and considering his age, he was a rival for the emperor. He was the one who founded the first order, who recruited Ben Solo and the KoR so yes, a backstory was expectable because he was there during the OT and that's the main reason.

People wanted to know where he was during this time and IMHO, this is not crazy asking.

The dude had insane power shown on screen and if you flip his side to the light, if there had been a really powerful jedi kicking a**** during TFA and some of TLJ, I wouldn't been surprised if some people asked : Hey, where does this guy is coming from ?

I don't think it is outrageous to ask for a deeper background.

Besides this, when Finn's backstory is sanitation and sweeping a ship, yes, maybe it wasn't good enough to be a part of the story because it brings nothing to the big picture.

 

I think this is an important point.

We don't need literal flashbacks, in the style of Hagrid dropping off Harry Potter on the Dursley's doorstep.

Backstory isn't just showing who the dude is, and his life since childhood. All it really needs to be is the character being situated within the story, and the world being set up.

Look at Vader. He is a mysterious character, but we are told how he is situated in the world, in a way that satisfied everybody and it was done in a single scene under 2 minutes long, with Obi-Won talking to Luke in his hut, in addition to what we learn about him from how the other scenes play out.

We learn:
1. Luke's father was a Jedi
2. Luke's father was killed by Vader
3. Vader was a pupil of Obi-Won until he turned evil
4. Vader, upon turning evil, join the Empire and helped hunt down the Jedi.
5. Vader was seduced by the dark side of the force

From other scenes before, we also learn that Vader isn't just some recruit, he's commanding the evil stormtroopers and evil officers of the big evil ships. So he's a heavy obstacle for Luke, and won't go down easily.

It took so little time, but it situated everything so we could carry on and know what and why people are acting the way they are. It was enough for viewers.

When it comes to Snoke, his lack of backstory is tied into the lack of explanation of The First Order itself. That's I think the main thrust of the complaint, since we don't know much at all about the entire organization. We know Snoke is the "Supreme Leader", but Kylo becomes the Supreme Leader after Snoke dies. We know TFO has massively large ships, and a massive army of troopers, yet we don't know how that was funded or where it hid. After E6, we know The omnipresent Empire fell, and the heroes were all cheered. So we expect them to have as nearly as much control as The Empire did. A new Government is in town. But for a reason not explained, a massive army comes out of nowhere, with a Supreme Leader who came out of nowhere, and ships out of nowhere, and builds a massive planetary cannon out of nowhere. Why and where did it all occur?

With The Empire, it was part of the world explained to us. The galaxy is controlled by The Empire. They are evil and dicks. The rebellion is trying to save the galaxy by fighting the good fight. OK. Stage set, let's watch the movie. Well, when exactly was the stage set adequately for TFO? Keep in mind, this could have all been explained in an equally small under 2 minute scene at the beginning of the movie, and if done right, would have satisfied nearly everybody. But it was never attempted. The galaxy was instead reset to factory settings, and TFO is a new big bad in town because that's the story that is being told. That could possibly be fine, if this was not the 7th installment in a longstanding saga.

And the interesting part is its so easy to establish powerful characters. In the prequels, it took something so insignificantly small as simply having characters sitting in a round room, and being called The Jedi Council, for us to say, "OK. These guys are the head honchos, they are in charge of the Jedi Council, and are wise and the most powerful Jedi. Carry on, Movie." We didn't need backstory, we just needed the characters explained in the world being presented. We knew Jedi Existed, we knew Jedi had influence in The Republic, so we were OK with a Jedi Council being presented to us with a bunch of characters who were really not explained at all, because we understood what they were. Snoke's control of TFO needed to be explained, as well as TFO's creation needed to be explained.

 

I think it depends on how the story is structured.

I wasn't all that invested in Snoke or Kylo, so the lack of backstory didn't bother me very much. That said, the ST is making Kylo a main character of the series along side Rey and Snoke has a role to play in that, as mentioned by Leia in TFA. In that sense, maybe it's not entirely RJ's fault that he doesn't have a backstory in TLJ, but an expectation was set. It seems to be a pretty integral part of the character's development, his relationship with Luke and his decisions since then. Though the lack of anything I find a strange decision on the part of RJ, I think he could have given fans something, especially after telling those fans who were invested that their theories sucked. Honestly, had he refrained form that, I doubt there would have been much attention to the lack of backstory, the problem was by telling those invested in that back story, he kind of set himself up to show us how it's done. He failed miserably imo. Something would have been better than nothing.

Luke needed a back story because his character makes decisions that seem ridiculous. It's either mistakes he made back when he was a trainee or things we can't understand at all (teach the force to kill the jedi anyone?).

Leia didn't need one and I don't hear anyone calling for one because she progresses in a way that is logical. We all knew she had the Force, but beyond that she's a natural leader and raised that way. No issue there.

No one wanted back story on Rose but we got some anyways lol.

Holdo could have been introduced sooner, considering the small size of the Resistance. I don't hear a whole lot of calls for back story here.

Kylo needs some but I've covered that mostly with Luke and Snoke, those 3 are tied together. RJ also actively tries to get us so sympathize with him. Worse it's at the detriment of Luke. I think there might be a universe where I could accept Luke as he is in TLJ, but it would almost take a movie on its own to take me through those steps to make it believable. RJ gave us nuanced flashbacks that without context, seems out of character for Luke to many fans. In short, RJ never earned it, he just wanted to be given the benefit of the doubt.

Rey could use some because her ease of learning and exceptional power begs the question. That said, I'd be fine if they kept that reveal for IX, because she isn't dead yet. I believe that could be a hook for IX, or they can entirely ignore it. After TLJ I can't even pretend to say I understand what they value to tell as a story anymore.

I think if the story is solely from the point of view of the main character (Rey), then a back story isn't necessary. However, RJ was dealing with the main character from the previous saga (Luke), and focused a lot of attention in a more intimate way with Kylo (than GL did with Vader), even asking the audience to sympathize with him. The ST has been more or less shared between Rey and Kylo, so it makes sense that the audience needs to understand Kylo's motivations. I think RJ may have under estimated how heavily the fan base relates with the OT characters. Kylo is tied to all 3, so fans need to understand how their heroes failed, and that isn't detailed at all so far in the ST. I think to have Kylo fail is fine, but the backstory of that failure is important and made more important because RJ wants us to sympathize with him. It's hard to make that determination without knowing the full story, or if the story just doesn't seem to make sense because without fleshing out some tangled web of a story that brings Luke to this point, Luke isn't believable to many.

To me, what the ST does now that TLJ is out, is like having GL make ANH, wait 30 years, and then make ROTJ. Without ESB, it doesn't work because there's story there that needs to be told. There was story between the ST and the OT that needed to be told, or at least give the audience some filler so things are in place.

Using this comparison of ANH to ROTJ without ESB, here's what fans would have to accept.
-Han is frozen in carbonite, how did that happen? (How did Snoke seduce Kylo without intervention?)
-Luke's a Jedi Knight now... okay... I guess. But it would have changed the way we view Jedi and the Force. Coincidentally, it probably would have made Rey's ascent more believable too in this context.
-Wait, what? When did Luke find out that Vader was his father? (Why is Luke contemplating killing his nephew?)
-Leia's in love with Han? When did that happen, I thought she was in love with Luke? (Rose loves Finn?)
-Who's this Lando guy coming out of nowhere? Ok, he's obviously a friend of Han's, and commanded ships in a battle. But where does he come from? (Holdo anyone?)
-Why's this guy in the cool armor getting so many close ups?
-Who's this dying green guy? Why is he so important?

I can understand how some people can make it work, but at the same time, without the ESB, ROTJ loses something, just as without some backstory, TLJ and many of its characters lose something. It's less satisfying and somewhat disjointed imo.

A modified TLJ could have and maybe should have been the last instalment, with a movie in between taking us through the progression of the characters as well as some elements of action from TLJ.

 

Snoke's backstory is not relevant to the sequel trilogy. Can we all agree to that? Even I think that, but therein lies the problem for me.

The ST is a new story that has very little to do with with the SIX episodes that came before it. If it was there would be more connective tissue in the story, rather than just reoccurring characters (Luke, Leia, Han, Chewie, Ackbar, Nunb, Yoda, R2, 3PO, no reoccurring alien species though but that's another contention).

Snoke's backstory may not be important to the story the ST is trying to tell, but his backstory IS important to the overall saga, you know, the ONE story from EP 1 thru 9. However, what we have is the Lucas saga, and some new story that started anew some 30 years later (in universe).

To compare Snoke's lack of backstory in EP VII and VIII (when the previous SIX films have already been made) to the lack of backstory of Vader or the Emperor in the OT (when no other films had been made) is erroneous. In my opinion of course

 

To hammer in that we are 'suppose' to be sympathizing with him and not Luke or anyone else for that matter.

I wanted a backstory on Finn, Rey, and Poe, instead it was just Kylo Ren.

 

TFA gave backstories to Finn and Rey. Poe's backstory is irrelevant to the movies and explained through comics and Before the Awakening.

 

TLJ.

 

I think at this point it is better to stop treating Star Wars films like Harry Potter (one continues storyline) and more like Hobbit-Lord of the Rings (separate, but interconnected stories in the same world). Because that's what SW really is, at least at this point, and this way you can focus on enjoying the overaching unified canon instead of complaining about the movies.

 

Finn's backstory was explained in TFA, again Poe's backstory isn't important to the plot. Finn was taken by the FO as a child. Why do you think we went years without knowing were Han came from? But it's okay for him to have no backstory? Do you really want a film that's a 2 hr exposition only story?