Why is backstory so important?

Sorry for the delayed response as it was a crazy day at work. I think Marvel movies are different then SW movies, as I put them in league with Hunger Games and Twilight and I will explain. Most blockbusters appeal to the common movie goer who just wants to be wowed/entertained, so there isn't a specific audience they go after, other then more to a certain age group. So anyone can go see The Avengers because it's just some silly comic book movie, but there is nothing deep about those movies. I don't want to sound like a movie snob, but comic book movies are not that deep as they all follow the same structure and are very predictable.

SW is alittle deeper then that, so it appeals to an audience with a more critical eye. That is why the movies get dissected left and right compared to other Blockbusters because there is something actually to discuss in terms of plot points, character development. What are we all debating here? The portrayal of Luke Skywalker, the heritage of Rey, the backstory/lack of backstory of Snoke, etc. That's what keeps me coming back to SW movies is that they are still 'thinking' blockbuster movies that don't just wow you. Yes, they have their special effects, yes they have their big/set action pieces to satisfy the common moviegoer, but the movies are deep from a certain point of view.

I think the Luke/Rey debate about the Force, The Jedi, The Sith, is probably some of the best stuff in the Saga. Which goes to my point that Kathleen Kennedy is worried about the wrong things in what appeals to the fanbase. Nobody ever cared about gender roles, race, girl power, etc, as we accepted the characters put on screen if they appealed to us. Lando was cool, not because he was black, because he was as cool or maybe cooler then Han. Leia was beloved by the fans, not because she was a women, (well OK Slave Leia is a different story LOL), but we fell in love with her in 1977 cause she was funny and didn't take any crap. The movies worked because they had a good story, good characters, and touch of humor/mythology/drama, and the special effects were icing on the cake. THAT is the formula for a great SW movie that will appeal to the fans.

But Kathleen Kennedy came in and all the female writers wear 'The Force is Female' shirts, and when you watch the Rogue 1 Documentary they constantly talk about how they want representation of every race for their SW characters. I'm all for that, but just write them not because you want them represented, but write them because they're good characters. Rogue One is a great movie but the characters are just bland because they took no time to develop them. None of them are memorable for that reason alone, so they took all of these new minority characters and they pretty much end up forgettable in the big picture of the franchise. Captain Phasma could have been one of the coolest characters in SW Saga, but ends up being lame because they don't know what to do with her, and they just think she will appeal because she's a women.

In the end, Disney overthought this whole process and the perfect storm erupted with Solo bombing at the box office. Whenever SW tries to co-op this or that audience, it always backfires. They obviously created the Ewoks and Jar Jar to appeal to kids, and it backfires with an older fanbase. They obviously created Holdo, Phasma, etc to appeal to women, and it backfires with men because they feel it's too much. Just make the damn movies and stop worrying about who to please because right now I honestly don't know what the SW fandom will look like in 3-4 years after Episode 9.

 

Curiously there doesn't seem to be the same backstory appetite for all ancient and powerful characters introduced in the ST which must mean something too (see Maz Kanata).

Interesting point.
And I mentioned in another thread that there is actually a reasonable amount of backstory available about Snoke that SW fans can access if they feel they need more detail.

Spoiler

I'd guess it's the fact that Leia, Han, and Luke all claim Snoke seduced Ben to the dark side that many fans are desiring/demanding more info.
I still wouldn't be surprised if there's more to be revealed here. (Or surprised if there isn't!)

The thought, however unlikely, has crossed my mind that a lack of detail of exposition or backstory in a saga could have something to do with writing etiquette or custom too.
I don't doubt there's some outline for the ST but I could imagine there being some writers pride or charity to be found in weaving a story with minimum threads and leaving juicy dramatic possibilities to the next director or storyteller.

 

so, fill in all that backstory and explain everything and what's left to discuss? Star Wars just becomes another connect the dots action movie. a large part of the reason these things are riveting to talk about is because we don't know the answers and we like to speculate or try to piece together clues.

i don't either, but i really hope it's a lot more self-aware and lot more tolerant.

i don't care about identity politics, but the truth is i had to wait 40 years to see someone like me in a Star Wars movie
(and to be honest, i'm actually still waiting given Poe and Cassian are men, but that's okay, i don't have issues identifying with characters who aren't like me).

and i'm not going to complain about any agenda that is committed to making Star Wars accessible and welcoming to everyone.
especially since i don't have the problem that other people do with thinking the characters aren't good enough or that somehow an inclusive agenda is affecting the quality in some vague and offensive way.

personally i haven't been this excited about Star Wars since 1977 and i'm doing fine. : D

 

Apparently, the fanbase does not share your same excitement as Solo bombed (which is the first SW movie to ever do that), and there has been a split in the fanbase since TLJ that is still being debated today (and it isn't just on the internet as my friends/coworkers are still debating it). I'm not doubting that you haven't been this excited about the franchise since 1977, but after the performance of Solo and who knows how Episode 9 will play out, I think Disney should be worried.

And before you say that nobody wanted a Solo movie to justify it bombing, nobody wanted Rogue One either and that made a Billion Dollars. And NOBODY said that Solo would bomb, so nobody saw that coming.

 

Kind of funny this is where the conversation has gone because Solo is a back story film. Solo lost money because of the fanbase (I won't go so far in calling it a bomb b/c it'll probably eventually break even in the long run). It made $100M opening weekend because of the fanbase. The problem here is the general audience (who aren't hardcore fans) were meh on a back story for Han Solo.

 

Solo only made 84 million opening weekend as Memorial Day numbers are a 4 day total of 100 million. So your post is misleading.

Rogue One essentially overperformed because it rode the momentum of TFA where Solo underperformed because it rode the backlash of TLJ. TLJ Bluray/Streaming sales are roughly 1/2 of TFA along with the TLJ merchandise being down 49%, despite the Box Office was only down 35%. So there was a backlash that rode into Solo and still pervades through the fanbase today. These are all downward trending numbers and it started with TLJ.

 

your generalization about the fanbase doesn't hold water. i'm part of the fanbase, and so is the majority who bothers to vote in polls, etc.
yes, there's a considerable part of the fandom that isn't happy with Star Wars right now (about 30%ish).
but Disney is not the least bit worried.

and if anything, Solo seems to indicate, as @DailyPlunge suggested, that the majorirty fandom isn't actually interested in backstory.

 

I should clarify... I think most of the opening weekend numbers for Solo (which would have been very good for most films) was Star Wars fans. We know Star Wars fans weren't very excited about the film. That was the case long before TLJ. However, those fans still made up most of the audience the opening weekend. This is off topic, but Solo failed to excite general audiences enough to go see it. Star Wars has a huge fanbase, but these films live or die with the general audience. That's why these trilogies are designed to be watched independently.

General audiences weren't interested a Han Solo backstory feature a recast Han.

 

I dont think general audiences cared regardless of who played Han. Unless you're talking in 1984 with Harrison Ford.

Solo is basically the bottom out of a Star Wars film. They have a new bar set for how low it can go and can adjust on spending for these films going forward.

 

Solo shouldn't have been so expensive. It would have still made with if it's budget didn't double due to reshoots, making it the most expensive SW movie. Disney decided to loose money on a good film that making it on a bad one. Probably a good decision in the long run.

 

It was a good decision but now they know to not let a stand alone like Solo have that kind of budget in the first place in case of emergencies.
It didn't need a 150 million dollar budget anyways.

 

Sorry, but I don't go by any polls because nobody knows how right they are. I have loads of friends who are diehard SW fans who don't post on internet boards, so should we discount their opinons? I'm sure you have friends that don't post either, should we discount their opinions?

If you don't think Disney is not worried about the Solo box office, then you have your head in the sand. Why do you think they are bringing back Lando for Episode 9, when he was not even contacted for Episode 7 or 8? (Billy Dee Williams was on Arsenio Hall a few years ago and took a shot at Disney when he was not asked back for Episode 7). The bottom line is since Carrie Fisher's death, they don't have an OT character to sell in this movie and they need Lando in that first trailer to woo fans back.

I guarantee Episode 9 willl make less then Episode 8, which will be the first time a SW Trilogy had a downward trend for each movie. The OT and PT had ANH & TPM make the most money, AOTC and ESB make the least, and ROTS and ROTJ recover to make the 2nd most of their respective Trilogy. If Episode 9 makes less then Episode 8, along with Solo bombing, then something happened with this fanbase after TLJ because that's a downward trend.

I agree with your assessment towards the general audience and Solo......except Rogue One made a Billion dollars. Rogue One was not a movie that appealed to anyone other then the diehard SW fans, yet it made huge coin at the Box Office. Rogue One was about the Death Star, and a bunch of no name characters, as there is no way you can tell me that appeals to the general audience either? So something happened in 2 years for Rogue One to make a Billion dollars where Solo will need strong home video sales to break even?

 

That's because we get a backstory of Maz Kanata. Han tells us what we need to know when he says "she's run this watering hole for a 1,000 years." That's really all we need because unlike Snoke, she is a minor character.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 20, 2018, Original Post Date: Jul 20, 2018 ---

It is Star Wars. If you think there would be a shortage of discussion topics if the movie(s) gave us proper background, then I have to disagree.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 20, 2018 ---

Disney didn't pay $4 billion for a movie franchise which, within 3 years of their first Star Wars release, was relegated to making movies that struggle to barely break even.

If that were the case, Rogue One would have bombed as well. Do you really think casual fans were excited for a back story on how the Alliance stole the Death Star plans?

Solo bombing is a direct result of the reaction to The Last Jedi. Episode 9 will suffer from this as well. While it will do do better than Solo, it will not do better than TLJ.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 20, 2018 ---

Well, their accountants were smart enough to understand the concept of sunk cost. While we will never know what the Lord & Miller movie was, I think they made the right decision to sink another $100 million into production to completely redo most of it.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 20, 2018 ---

I made a very similar point before reading this post of yours. I apologize if it seems like I was plagiarizing or stealing the idea. It is just a matter of us being in agreement on this issue and reaching the same conclusions independently.

 

1. i specifically said the polls were a measure of people who bother to vote in them.

2. Disney is not worried, and my head is free of sand, thank you.

 

if the same few members post the exact same messages about Solo bombing because they didn't like TLJ enough times in enough threads.. should we start to believe it?

ditto. more of the same please LF.. keep it coming

 

You should believe it because it is a true statement, not because multiple people have posted it several times. It certainly didn't bomb because of its own quality. It was a fantastic movie and didn't, you know, alienate half the fan base.

 

Let's not get ahead of ourselves.

 

Was it, though? I mean, I liked it well enough but it certainly didn't set the world on fire. Had the general audience considered it as fantastic, it would've had better legs at the box office, like The Greatest Showman, Wonder Woman or Spiderman: Homecoming. The first one had milquetoast reviews and the two others were continuations of poorly-reviewed films (Suicide Squad/Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice and The Amazing Spider-Man 2) and yet they proved to be huge successes at the box office. There is only so much you can blame on a mediocre (and that is certainly VERY debatable) predecessor.

 

I don't think the general audience enjoyed it as much as I did, but it certainly isn't generating intense diametrically opposed passions, nor has there been any large segment of fans or critics talking about how bad it was.

Your point about Wonder Woman is a valid one, but less so the point about Spider-Man. Spider-Man: Homecoming wasn't a continuation of Amazing Spider-Man 2, it was a continuation of the incredibly popular MCU. 3 full years were able to pass to get the bad taste of ASM2 out of peoples' mouths.

 

Fair points. I just feel that TLJ's role in Solo's box office performance is overplayed.