An analysis of the Knights of Ren, the Church of the Force, and what they represent.

@AstromechRecords

"I'm to weak anikin help. i can't hold him" the power physically drains his life force.
Think of it as a bee's stinger. a last resort. thats why he has a sabre. to fight or he would just use the lightning all the time.

didn't see mace looking light a Bullfrog either. lol

 

Hmmm...I didn't think of it like that...but then why does he use it on Yoda in the same movie and on Luke Skyealker ?

 

When he uses it on LUKE, he has just seen his most powerful Darth, Darth Vader defeated in a sabre fight.
but i have to admit it doesn't seem to be effecting him in the same way.
do you think there is a gradation you could apply to it.
1-10 type thing that he draws on. and he had to go full ten against mace?

SIDIOUS "I'm too weak", I think it drains him the longer he has to hold it?

Just as a little side note
i have to admit, i think it should stay a trait of the emperors, specifically to him. it sets him part from every on else.

 

VERY interesting. I like the idea of Kylo Ren as a sort of false prophet, if you will. He's clearly trying to project that he's somewhat of a reincarnation of Vader, so the idea of him having some form of disciples that follow him is a neat possibility. This could be particularly cool concerning the lightsbaber that Kylo uses, considering that it is unstable. Not only could that be a metaphor for his own instability (as was alluded to by Abrams, Kasdan, and Driver), but it could be symbolic that his "improper" lightsaber is like a fake Excalibur and he's just not the real deal he claims to be.

 

What I think is this: based on old canon (it might still be canon) Mace's fitting style is on the verge of the dark side. Sirius is STILL WAY MORE POWERFUL. SIdious talking to Mace and Analon Skywalker while fighting is literally to mess with their heads so that he can get the upper hand. His using lightning (in my opinion) wouldn't cause him to literally SMOKE if Mace wasn't deflecting it back onto Sidious.

Watch VERY CAREFULLY HERE:

The Lightning is being reflected back into Sidious as Anakin Skywalker is watching on:

 

Haha yeah, it definitely was Windu redirecting the lighting that scarred Palpatine. Sith lightning is not a "bee sting". It's pretty powerful, remember the end of Return of the Jedi? At first Palpatine was just torturing Luke, to show him how much power he had. Vader wasn't electrocuted for very long and he died.

 

metaphor.
noun
1. a figure of speech in which a term or phrase is applied to somethingto which it is not literally applicable in order to suggest a resemblance,

bees have a sting (there main weapon) but if they use it they die.
Am not staying its power is comparable to a bee sting?

 

Yeah bud, I know what a metaphor is. Maybe English isn't your primary language, and if it is that statement is gonna make me come across as an absolute dick. Bee sting is often used as an idiom meaning something that hurts but is really more annoying than actually harmful. Your wording came across as inferring that Sith lightning wasn't all that powerful. But more importantly, you brushed aside the notion that it was what transformed Palpatine. The lightning is 100% what did that to him.

 

Think of it as a bee's stinger

Yes english is my first language.
Do you notice it says Stinger not Sting

The next is clarification
bees have a sting (there main weapon) but if they use it they die.
Am not staying its power is comparable to a bee sting?

In this context it's referring to there ability TO sting.
bees have a sting (there main weapon) but if they use it they die.

The second should have clarified your query any way?
Am not staying its power is comparable to a bee sting?

Are you sure English is your first language lol?

CORRECTION

Also, I will conclude by correcting you.
I think you will find that i implied, you inferred.
hey, its funny correcting people isn't it.

you miss quoted me. to make your point

If you think your looking like a dick has anything todo with me thats hilarious.
Firstly, there is no complex equivalence there.
Secondly, take the time to read carefully if your going to correct somebody.
and lastly.
WHY so sirius. could be worse.

 

Take it easy guys. It's just both your perspectives on a particular scene.

I personally, don't even acknowledge it as it weakened the Emperor for me. I will always regard his use of the dark side as the reason his appearance was corrupted (probably giving away that I'm no prequel fan!). The deflection can also be viewed as revealing his true self - the phantom Sith.

 

i thought i would just point out that dingdong is faking weakness to goad Anakin into turning on Mace.

yeah, Mace is cooking his beans, but he's much more powerful than he's playing at in this scene.

 

I think there one very brief instance that he thinks mace might actually kill him, though .

 

the Sidius/Mace stuff is a tad off topic lol, but i've always thought that Sidius was 100% in control of the entire fight.
Sure the lightning hitting himself was a negative and must have come as quite a shock to him

as for the Knights of Ren.. i see mention of them worshipping Kylo and that none of them have Lightsabers.
i don't see documentation for any of this

Snoke refers to Kylo as the 'Master' of the knights. is there something i'm missing that implies that the knights worship Kylo?

Rey sees a vision of Kylo and some knights of Ren characters. she sees Ren and (i think) 6 knights of Ren and we can make out a couple of non lightsaber weapons .. is that the information we're using to conclude that none of them use lightsabers?

also... do we know how many knights of Ren there are? could there be 500 of the sods and we've only see half a dozen?

 

ye looks like he's acting. lol.

 

Literally everyone on the film is acting .

 

You know... I always assumed that Sidious was disfigured not just by the Sith Lightning, but that the lightning was changed somehow being reflected off of the light saber. I can't think of any other instances where the lightning disfigured anyone else, but I can think of other instances where people suffered sustained attacks (Luke in RoTJ).

I guess it's also possible that using Sith Lightning makes you even more susceptible to it's damage

 

We don't know a lot about the KoR so all we can do is wildly speculate. I personally believe that they are Snoke's nascent dark side order who have probably been growing in numbers and will continue to do so. The reason they don't have any lightsabers in the flashback might be due to incomplete training or they hadn't recovered enough information/holocrons about lightsaber combat/construction. Either way my preference is that they be force sensitives in training and not Kylo Ren's groupies worshipers. I'm just excited at the chance of seeing a dark side order without the "rule of two", although them being the rebirth of the Sith would be nice for continuity sake but the Knights of Ren is a pretty cool name so I'm not too bothered.

 

this is my sense of it as well. the Ren are the "bad kids" Ben was hanging out with (not literally, but you get my drift), that caused Leia to want to send Ben away. or else were the "bad kids" in Luke's temple, seduced by Snoke (who i think was actually Luke's "apprentice").

i could be way off. but i just don't think Kylo Ren was the usurper in Luke's class.

 

Good theories. Mine are:

-Church of the Force-It's basically like the Air Acolytes from Legend of Korra. They're not FS themselves, but they believe in the ideals/philosophies of The Jedi and spend their time studying The Force. They will also help out the Light Side when and were they can.

-Knights of Ren-They're basically a warrior order, mixed with a Dark Side-worshiping cult. They may not all be FS, but they believe in the DS and are trained to fight well regardless. Kind of like an evil space version of something like the Knights Templar really. They're called "Knights" after all, and there was seemingly a pseudo-Medieval aesthetic to them. Also that same pseudo-Medieval aesthetic was present throughout TFA and there were numerous references to Arthurian myth as well. Kylo is the "Master" of the KOR in the same way that the Templars has a "Grand Master." He's their leader.

 

It would add a new element to the story if the core members of the KoR were former students of Luke who were experimenting in the dark side and got seduced by Snoke alongside Kylo/Ben, or perhaps Ben seduced them on Snoke's behalf. However, I think its been said somewhere that Ben changed his name to Kylo Ren to upon joining the KoR which implies that they existed before his defection. Now the KoR could have been the name of the "rebel" group of Luke's students but I feel that would take away their menace, like finding out that your enemy was Dumbledore's Army.

This is certainly an interesting angle to take. It would help explain how Leia and Han know Snoke and how Snoke would've had the opportunity to corrupt Ben, and maybe others. However, Snoke has apparently seen the fall of the Old Republic, the rise and fall of the Empire so it would seem he's been around a while. Perhaps he has been studying the dark side for a while and approached Luke shortly after ROTJ under the guise of a friend and fellow student of the force with the suggestion that they collaborate/pool their knowledge of the force/jedi teachings, only later would Luke find the Snoke was a devotee of the dark side.

This would add a more personal element to the conflict between Luke and Snoke rather than if they had just simply heard of each other.

Agreed, I think its clear from what the visual dictionary says that the Church of the Force are light side/Jedi devotees and were probably a major source of knowledge for Luke in his efforts to rebuild the Jedi Order.

I'm definitely seeing the Arthurian themes in the KoR, and the whole of TFA/Star Wars for that matter, and Kylo's position in the story is pretty damn close to being Mordred's minus the disturbing incest elements present in some tales of Arthur. I'm not sure about the Knights Templar connection to the KoR seeing as the only similarity is that they are both Knightly orders.

However, If we want to talk about the influences of the Knights Templar in Star Wars I thought it was pretty clear the Jedi Order was heavily based upon the Knights Templar:

• Both knightly monastic orders based upon religion with strict rules about attachments to family and land, Knights joining the Templars gave up any legal rights to land and were forbidden to have families/marry.
• Both originally founded to defend travellers/peace in the holy land, although this parallel to the Jedi only really works if some parts of the EU are still canon.
• Both governed by a Grand Master.
• Both based in headquarters scattered across the galaxy/Europe that were called "Temples".
• Both became very influential in their respective political fields despite their original intentions.
• Both accused of heresy and treason by a powerful secular leader.
• Both wiped out by a powerful secular leader, Emperor Palpatine/Philip IV the Fair, who had them rounded up and hunted down across the continent/galaxy.

I've always thought the Jedi/Templar order parallels were incredibly strong and a clear inspiration for Lucas. The Knights of Ren seem to be more inspired by Arthurian legends, like an evil Knights of the Round table, but that may change as we learn more about them.