SPOILER Andor Ep. 1-3 Discussion

No one is arguing there wasn’t corruption. Fascinating is probably an exaggeration for me at this point as I think it’s perfectly normal for viewers of most shows to discuss the protagonist’s actions; many people going into this knew there would be shades of grey, so whilst all part of the discussion, it’s not like there’s a hot debate going on to justify for his actions.

 

I wouldn't consider executing an unarmed person "shades of grey." Andor does it simply for self preservation. Which doesn't even work anyway. Obviously we know that despite the horrific things Andor has done in the past he chooses his own path in Rogue One.

 

Sorry, I’m really not sure what point you’re trying to make. You say you wouldn’t describe it as shades of grey but then give a brief account which could quite easily fall into the category of shades of grey.

 

When I said Syril wasn't investigating a murder, I meant he wasn't going about "investigating" like a hopefully honest detective would (like you might see on NCIS or something)--according to principles of justice and fairness, etc. Of course there was a murder--and Andor is the murderer. But does Syril know that? No, he is just grasping the possibility as a certainty, in order to propel himself to glory.

 

I'm not sure what you mean? It was an investigation, based on the testimony from witnesses, and using tech to track down the suspect. What was dishonest about his investigation? I've only watched it once so maybe I missed something.

 

Part of the investigation included bringing in the main suspect for questioning. They went in mob handed with no regard for public safety. They intimidated, detained and killed civilians.

 

That's how the police apprehends violent criminals. Should he have asked Andor politely to come back for questioning?

 

There were no witnesses to the actual event. He was no more than a suspect at that time. They should have followed due process and brought him in lawfully. Not harassing and killing civilians. However as established, they are little more than a bunch of thugs in uniform. They had already decided his guilt and fate.

 

That's exactly what they were attempting to do before several of them died trying to arrest him.

I think this gets back to my central point. Good storytelling takes the audience down roads where bad behavior can be justified. This was similar to the Walter White effect from Breaking Bad. The audience is pulling for Walter even though he's really a villain. The ends justify the means. Skyler White was vilified online for "getting in his way." Andor isn't going down that road. We know where his story ends. However, when we see him in Rogue One he kills an informant simply for convenience. He is ordered to kill Galen Erso. I think Gilroy isn't going to tell a simply good vs. bad story. Revolutions are rarely that clean.

Is Syril perfect? No one is... but his actions in the first 3 episodes are certainly not villainous. Andor kills several people simply to save his own skin.

 

You seem desperate for a particular discussion that’s not particularly needed and in doing so, creating quite a distorted version of events. Good luck with that.

 

You have had an opportunity to argue your point, there's no need for insults. I watched the 3rd episode again. Syril arrives with a warrant to arrest Andor for murder. They know the suspect is likely armed and dangerous. When Andor is cornered, several officers are killed immediately. At this point no civilians have been killed. In fact, it appears the only civilian who is killed is someone who charges at the cops after being told to hold his position. There's no distortion there. We are simply seeing this story from Andor's perspective.

The last 5 minutes of Episode 3 are fantastic. The music is exceptional and Syril looking around at the carnage his pursuit has wrought is haunting. It was also a nice touch showing Andor moving through two life changing events at the same time.

 

Then maybe you should also watch episode 2 again where the unit receive a pep talk and it’s made perfectly clear to them there may be local displeasure at their presence so they shouldn’t worry about holding back. As above, your idea of what constitutes legal behaviour of local enforcement seems quite sketchy. It’s one thing to enter a suspect’s premises with a warrant, it’s quite another to manhandle an elderly woman and hold her against her will at gunpoint. This is all pretty evident, despite your now seemingly obsessive determination to try to turn this into some sophisticated discussion about perspectives etc. It isn’t.

Agree about the last 5 minutes where it all came together nicely.

 

Making an arrest can be unpopular. I didn't interpret that as a call to violence.

I'm sorry if I offended you in some way, but my observation is hardly obsessive or distorted. If a person is found helping someone avoid prosecution they wouldn't simply let her go. She would be "free to go." If you're unable to discuss this civilly or if it's beneath you to discuss it with me, you are free to not respond.

I don't view these first three episodes as a pure good vs. evil tale that's typically Star Wars. I'm sure we'll get there as we move towards the Empire side of things. In fact, what Andor escapes as a child was a glimpse at the problems with the Republic. It appears Gilroy is taking a close look at what it means to follow orders.

We know where Andor ends up, but I'm genuinely interested in where Syril goes from this point. If he joins the Empire he might be faced to fulfill the promise of that quote.

 

Keeping in mind that this is sci-fi fantasy, which at times is based on real life events, with that said, in real life, as a law enforcement officer you can not shoot an unarmed person even if they disobey your commands, you must holster your weapon, or crack him with your weapon for invading your personal space, or use other methods to detain the perp, also in my city, at this time you can not shoot a fleeing unarmed felon, even though you have ordered the person to stop. That's why the officer was relieved of duty.

 

Very true, the larger point was a rebuttal to the claim that multiple civilians were killed. It was one, shot by a scared officer after several teammates were killed.

 

Been enjoying these 3 episodes. Loved the start to Cassian's journey to Rogue One

 

You did not offend me, nor did I insult you earlier.

I doubt very much anyone does. As noted previously, we all knew going into this that not many characters were going to be completely “good” or “bad”. Hence your assumptions that people are justifying Andor’s actions because he is the protagonist, or vilifying Syril as the antagonist, all feels redundant and rather forced.

 

So far so good. Looking forward to Wednesday.

It's quite interesting that it takes nearly three episodes to actually deliver the meeting set up in the beginning of episode one. Yet the series isn't attracting the same kind of criticism for pacing and "not moving the story forward" that OWK and TBoBF did.