Can this trilogy be salvaged?

I agree with you completly Lobot. TFA was just a simple unoriginal copy/paste of ANH so I too am hoping that the future director can fix the mess that JJ Abrams did.

 

So unoriginal... ANH did so many things better:
- when the stormtrooper helped the rebel pilot escape in a TIE fighter
- when the hero stole the Falcon and was chased by TIE fighters through ship wrecks
- when the old mentor tried to pass the quest onto someone else
- when the stormtrooper used a lightsaber to try and save the hero
- when the hero used a lightsaber and defeated the bad guy

And again.... JJ didn't make a mess of anything. He made the movie that Lucasfilm wanted him to make.
IF there's anything J.J. did wrong, it was failing to back out so that someone else would get blamed for everything.
He was pretty disappointed when he found out he couldn't have a bigger role for Luke.

 

I don't understand when people call The Force Awakens a mess or that the sequel trilogy needs salvaging. I really don't. It was fun, had great new characters, and set things up. It isn't a mess. It doesn't need salvaging. Just because you thought it was too much like A New Hope doesn't spell doom for us. Playing it safe the first time around, especially after nearly 20 years of complaints about the Special Editions and the Prequels, makes sense. Yet, they did do things that were risky, including something that the EU never once managed to do: pass the torch to a new generation. The writers understood that the second Luke walked in, the movie's focus just became his.

I would rather the main characters of The Force Awakens get more screen time than to have to fight for it with too many new characters.
Remember how many major characters were introduced in Empire? Two: Yoda and Lando. No, Boba Fett doesn't count. He's just a henchman that fans clung to and got elevated because of that. It could have been Dengar or IG-88 and it wouldn't have made a difference.

 

This.

TFA killed off Han Solo; a move so risky, that even George Lucas had failed to go through with it (I'm kind of glad he didn't, because he couldn't have had a death as great as what he got in TFA). On top of killing off such an iconic character, TFA also benched Luke Skywalker.
Those aren't easy things to do.

That reminds me... TFA had the monumental task of reintroducing audiences to characters they hadn't seen for decades, while simultaneously introducing a number of completely brand new characters.

 

Is it so difficult to be nice?

 

My friend, TFA is completly unoriginal in every way and just using the very same plot and making it look visually better does not a good movie make. But don't take my word for it, let us analize this together since I'm pretty sure you are also a OT fan. Let's see if TFA was an unoriginal copy or not.
Here are the copied things from ANH:
1-Hero stranded on desert planet without any knowledge of her destiny.

2-Evil dude seduces Jedi family member and turns him to the dark side and family wants him redeemed.

3-Mentor figure helps hero but is killed before heroes eyes by bad traitor Jedi dude.

4-Droid is given valuble info that bad guys desperatly seek.

5-Bad guys torch place in order to find droid they are looking for.

6-Traitor Jedi dude has a high ranking officer who seems to be at least of the same rank who is not afraid of him.

7-Hero has to go to a alien filled cantina in order to find a ship that will get the droid to the good guys.

8-Bad guys have a planet destroying weapon and they use it so the good guys will fear them.

9-Good guys make bombing run in order to destroy planet destroying weapon.

10-Hero is given lightsaber by wise person who knows of the Force.

11-Hero has no clue whatsoever of real family.

12-Good guys manage to blow up planet destrying weapon just as it is about to blow them into oblivion.

Do I really need to go on?

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 30, 2016, Original Post Date: Jan 30, 2016 ---

At least I'm not unoriginal that blindly follow the masses and can't see what a cheap ANH knockoff I got served.

 

You wrote in your comment that after TPM there was a lot of hate and hope.
And thus AOTC, the worst of the PT was made, which somehow even managed to be worse than TPM.
Delivered some of the worst acting and dialogues ever written with probably the worst love-story aswell.

But I agree with you on some parts. TFA did not contribute too much to the lore (but neither did TPM, maybe except Coruscant, which was a great contribution, depsite it was stolen from Blade Runner) it was 100% a movie about the characters, and very little about the overall lore.
However I think after TFA we have a lot more reason to be optimistic than after TPM (srsly how could you be optimistic after TPM?).
Its a thousand times better movie than the prequels (which isnt a big suprise to be honest). And I think its even better in acting and dialogues than the originals. We have some great new characters, and visuals worthy to the originals (unlike the PT's cartoon-looking visuals).
And we will have Rian Johnson as a writer (who I think is very talented, but still young and eager to show it). And fckin Benicio Del Toro as a new villain!
I think I will wait till ep 8 (and 9?) with my final judgement about TFA. In its current state its indeed a bit insufficient, but with the expansion of ep 8 (and 9) most likely it will be a lot better.
As I think Disney and current Lucasfilm understands Star Wars a lot better than 90s-2000s Lucas did.

 

I loved it, yes there were parts that seemed a little too familiar (it does have flaws), but that's a good thing. They gave you the Star Wars that you know and love (or loved) and also managed to ignite everyone's imagination with the way the story and characters are set up for the next two episodes. Lor San Tekka's opening line of "this should begin to make things right" is spot on. TFA was executed far better that the prequels, but a lot of people seem to miss the huge juggling act that was involved; In bringing old fans back whilst still pulling in new ones and utilizing old characters but also giving you new ones. They didn't have permission to make some kind of six hour monolith, that's why it's a trilogy and you should know by now to go along for the ride and see where things end up. If JJ had decided to do something completely radical then the same people who shout "remake" would have been condemning him for the movie not being "like star wars".

Don't let Disney's hype machine make you turn on a movie that did it's job and a series that is going to give you more viewing, reading, toys and gaming than you've experienced in the last 39 years.

Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.

 

Sympathetic, but all the effort for nothing. The First Order has destoyed this thread as well as the Hosnian System. Trolls want attention, so my advise to all of you thinking about replying and giving it even more attention is:

 

This statement is a bit inappropriate, but there is some truth to it. (I feel cheated too, the movie could have been great, but wasn't)
I will watch Duck Soup in a few minutes, I need to get cheered up today.

 

That's what it should be, each director and each filming trying to continue the story but also improve upon it. Competition can bring out the best in everyone. Which equals a win for the franchise and for the fans.

 

I support your statement, to improve something is most of the time a good idea.
That is my problem with current Hollywood, they don't try to improve theirs movies, they use old formulas to rehash, reboot and remake movies.
As long as they make money with this formula, they will not change it.
They are lacking in creativity/originality and imagination, I guess it's a cold calculated business who don't take risks.
Improvement side steps for stagnation in Hollywood since years.

My humble opinion about this topic.

 

You'd had to buy the premise that it needs "salvaging," which I don't. If anything, TFA salvage SW (at least on film) after the mess that was the prequels. As for the "rehash," thing, that only exists if you don't bother to look past the bare surface aesthetics (which I know, online fandom finds hard to do a lot of the time). They take the bare bones stuff from the OT and go off in their own directions with it, plus there's lots of cool thematic and symbolic ideas littered throught, some interesting inversion and callbacks, etc.

Oh and introduced us to a cast of instantly likeable new characters (I've never taken to characters as quickly as I did to these ones), played by talented actors (best acted SW movie top to bottom ever, by far), set up some intriguing mysteries/plot-lines moving forward, and was just a REALLY fun ride throughout.

And I'm sure that Disney is looking at their near $2 BILLION haul (just in theatres, not even counting home video yet), critical acclaim, and overall audience love, and is petrified. They have ZERO reason to deviate from their overall plan right now, ZERO!!

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 30, 2016, Original Post Date: Jan 30, 2016 ---

Wow, you kind of just completely proved my point about "not bothering to look past the shallow surface level." Thank you, I appreciate it. Oh and a little piece of advice, if you have to resort to insulting people who disagree with you, then you've already lost the argument,

 

Not surprised that some people (about 10% if audience ratings are to be believed) unfortunately still have trouble understanding anything other than surface arguments. If I were to say the following: "Oh yeah this movie is about the wizard gandalf who sends a hobbit from the shire across middle earth on quest. Part of the hobbit's quest is to go inside a mountain where he must make a decision that involves a piece of jewelry that corrupts those who become obsessed with it." The aforementioned sentence describes both premises of the LoTR and the Hobbit trilogies. However, only someone who is incapable of seeing the substance of stories and only focuses on surface arguments would agree that the LoTR and Hobbit trilogies are the same. People seem to forget that almost every story is the same on the surface, almost anything can be "argued" to sound like it is a carbon copy, which is why understanding the substance of storytelling and characters are important.

As far as being "saved" I could not help but chuckle because it is a statement that is unfortunately too consistent with how people view the world today. Either something is the "best thing ever" or the "worse thing ever" mentality. TFA was for me the 3rd best in the Saga and after seeing it 16 times I still feel the same way (its ok to love something and admit that you love something just a bit more).

Now I cannot wait until Rogue One is released and it only makes 350-400 million in the US instead of TFA's 900+ million and something like 500 million internationally instead of TFAs 1 billion and people like the opening post writer start declaring that Rogue One is a flop (because 900m-1 billion worldwide would be a flop).

 

I agreed on that post.

 

Sure, it probably could have been a little less familiar, but completely unoriginal? Not true. There are plenty of new ideas in TFA.

It's not just the same plot with better visuals. The opening village scene is the closest the plot ever follows ANH. After you move on from that, it changes significantly.

1. Same can be said of Anakin in TPM...
They all play out differently, and at least this time, the hero isn't on Tatooine.

2. Was never part of the ANH story. AS far as ANH was concerned, Luke's father was killed by Vader.

3. The mentor figure died in TPM as well... but it was a wasted moment because Anakin wasn't there to really witness it... that being said, Anakin's journey doesn't quite follow the hero's journey (since he becomes a villain instead).
Han's death>>>Obi-wan's death.

4. I'll give you that one as being unnecessarily familiar.

5. That's what bad guys do... I have no issue with it. And at least this time, we see it play out.

6. Kylo Ren and Hux have quite a different relationship to Vader and Tarkin.
I'd rather them have some kind of relatioship than none at all, like TPM.

7. Yeah, they go to Maz Kanata's place looking for help to get the droid to the good guys, but then Maz is unwilling to help them.
Plays out differently.

8. The Trade Federation had a civilisation destroying droid army with a big orbital control ship that had a large spherical portion.

9. Naboo pilots make an attack on the Droid control ship.

10. The scene plays out entirely different. Rey finds the lightsaber on her own, and when the wise person (who isn't the main mentor figure) tells her to take it, Rey refuses.

11. Oh noes! Most hero characters start like that. Superman, Spiderman, sometimes Batman, Harry Potter, etc,.

12. Anakin managed to blow up the Droid Control ship before the droids blasted the Gungans into oblivion.


Here are things brand new to TFA (that were not in ANH or TPM):
1. The search for a specific character as a central plot theme.

2. Captured rebel rescued by stormtrooper deserter.

3. Heroes steal and escape in an enemy vessel.

4. Jedi hero lives alone (without even an extended family).

5. Jedi hero already displays high level of physical skill

6. Jedi hero works for someone in league with the bad guys.

7. Non-Jedi mentor character.

8. Jedi hero finds lightsaber on her own.

9. In-atmosphere, aerial combat.

10. Jedi hero captured by villain.

11. Jedi hero escapes on her own using the Force

12. The son kills the father.

13. Jedi Hero uses lightsaber and defeats villain (instead of flying a fighter and destroying a big space ship/station)

Do I really need to go on?

TFA may borrow a lot from ANH (and a little bit from TPM)... but it does a whole lot that hasn't been done before.
Your claim that TFA is "completely unoriginal" is entirely false.

 

Can you show me the part where I resorted to insulting people my friend?

 

I think that han's death was the best part of TFA, story-wise although I wish he would have survived which he supposedly does as of now based on what KK has said .

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 31, 2016, Original Post Date: Jan 31, 2016 ---

I hope I didn't say anything to offend .

 

i think a mod should really rename this thread to "Can the rest of this trilogy be altered to focus on what I want"

Seriously, i'm not even joking. By no objective measure does this trilogy need "saving". It will be the second highest grossing movie of all time, it's critically acclaimed the world over and has been nominated for a range of awards.

This whole thread is purely a subjective rant. If you want to discuss possible alterations then start a thread called "what would you like to see in VIII" (if there isn't already one). Don't assume you speak for an entire community by saying "Can this trilogy be salvaged". YOU think it needs salvaging. Most don't.