Can this trilogy be salvaged?

regardless of whether you swear when you talk, it has no place here.

 

That is a great point, AstroRec. What is left of the Resistance? What's left of the First Order? What purpose does the New Republic serve? What was Luke hiding from?

The only "what" that makes sense is: "What does Kylo Ren need?"
Obviously, more training.

 

I loved TFA. That being said the only mess I see is to stop with the super weapons that get larger and larger. After a couple good character driven films we should be ok.

 

It ticked me off when I read his quote about Luke Skywalker taking over each scene, so they rewrote it to avoid dealing with his gravitas. I came to see Luke Skywalker, not to watch a bunch of noobs go looking for him when all they have to do is go wake up R2. With Starkiller Base destroyed and Rey owning Kylo Ren... why do they need Luke? To force choke Snoke? The question I have now is, who dropped Luke off on Act II? And don't say JJ Abrams did.

 

Episode 8 should answer it or Rey that is.

 

"Early on I tried to write versions of the story where [Rey] is at home, her home is destroyed, and then she goes on the road and meets Luke. And then she goes and kicks the bad guy’s ass. It just never worked and I struggled with this. This was back in 2012. It just felt like every time Luke came in and entered the movie, he just took it over. Suddenly you didn’t care about your main character anymore because, ‘Oh f–k, Luke Skywalker’s here. I want to see what he’s going to do." --JJA

Found it. Just as irritating now, as it was when I first read the quote.

Luke Skywalker is JJA's hot-potato.

#SomebodyElseFigureHimOut

 

That's the wrong reason to see the film...

That was Michael Arndt, not J.J. Abrams.
In fact, the decision to effectively cut Luke from the film was made before J.J. Abrams signed on to direct (in 2013)...
He was actually kind of disappointed when he found out he wouldn't be having much Luke Skywalker in his film, especially after Luke was basically the reason J.J. agreed to direct the movie in the first place.

In the end, it was the right thing to do.

 

This sounds soo.... "Arwen" Fenn-ish. Do you know him? If not, its cool.

 

The trilogy can't be salvaged no. Disney makes those movies to market them and at least triple what they bought them for. If they had any intend making a good product and not watering it down, they would have doubled-down from even putting the Star Wars logo on bags of oranges in the supermarket or not giving the SW license to electronic arts, name we one good product EA made- you can't! Only successful one but not a single good one or one that has been influencial for gaming: it's about your money with the least effort period. The TFA was ok but overall extremely hallow, predictable and basically the ultimate opposite of what the original Star Wars movies were and WHY they are what they are and even the prequels, despite their many many many many issues. If you write and direct a movie to please a "target group" you leave the realm of film making and enter the realm of marketing: Which is bantha poodoo and there is absolutely no way to beat around to bushes here or make any excuses. Star Wars follows a very simple pattern, if you even fail to execute those very basic things: you have no place in any conversation pertaining any salvation of Star Wars or even being a quality made film period

 

Google search reveals them to be a member of EUCantina.net, so no.
It's true though, going in to TFA expecting to see Luke Skywalker is almost like going into TPM expecting to see a movie about a younger infant/pre-pubescent Luke. The sequel trilogy was always going to be about a new cast of heroes (with a female Jedi as the lead several months before Disney even bought Lucasfilm). The sequels were never intended to be the continuing adventures of Luke Skywalker, otherwise George Lucas would have made them long ago, when the actors were still young.

Exactly, and TFA followed that simple pattern to the letter.
And if you're worried about Star Wars being turned into marketing, George Lucas already did that with Return of the Jedi.
So what's the problem?

 

The trilogy worths as much as its main villain worths. Its an epic battle of good and evil.

Plausible, strong villain, one that will connect old and new trilogies can only save the new trilogy.

 

Sith No One Knew Existed - SNOKE

 

Ever since ESB only shitty Star Wars movies were made till TFA.
Lucas made the last 4 SW movies only for the sole purpose of marketing. What do you think what purpose did the ewoks serve aside from possible cartoon-series and other crap? Or Jar-jar? Or making Anakin 9 years old? Or the pod-race (which is basically a very long filler) etc.
Lucas was a lot worse than Disney. At least TFA wasnt a green-screen monstrocity, which almost ruined carees of truly talented actors.

Good EA products: Need for Speed, Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Crysis, Command & Conquer. All legendary games.

 

Yeah, I agree with this. Perhaps "salvage" is too strong a word to have in the thread title. I think JJ was strong on the characters, except perhaps the OT ones, because I do feel that I know and love the new ones already. The drama and feel of a movie seems to always be his forte- if the opening scenes of this movie didn't awe and thrill moviegoers, then they've got a short in their circuitry somewhere!

But logic and storytelling seem not to be his strong point, which one can see in some of his other works, and which I did know going in, but was still disappointing to me. All of that can be fixed to a certain extent. Since it's an ongoing story, with a few exceptions, Rian Johnson can makes sense of the things that don't make sense now. So I'm optimistic.

JJ did have an opportunity to do something great, and he didn't, which was certainly a letdown for me. But he did make a movie that was successful enough and set up an interesting and epic enough of a story so that the NEXT movie can be great. He didn't do anything that would damage the franchise, even Han's rather inglorious and anonymous end will, I feel, have more meaning and impact than what we've seen thus far. So people will come back to see the next movie, though it won't have the same near hysterical anticipation preceding it as TFA did, it will still have a huge amount of goodwill and happy expectation, and that's enough for now.

 

The film was a fantastic adventure, I thoroughly enjoyed it. For me there was really only one negative in the movie. It was kind of a big one, but it was just the one. If there's any "salvaging" to do, it should be with how Ben/Ren in handled. If he gives a compelling reason for murdering his father (aside from the old standard "it made me more powerful in the dark side" *yawn* ), and they dig deeper into his personal history so that we actually know who he was before his fall rather than having to rely on our fellow fans' speculations, then the only major failing point of TFA (in my opinion) could be redeemed in my eyes. I would love to see this particular exposition in actual dialog in either of the next two movies.

All this is to say that I really want to get to the point where I can accept Han Solo's death as shown and not feel as though my 20+ year long fandom has been viciously and cruelly stabbed through the chest by Disney and JJ Abrams.

Here's hoping... No pressure...

 

I have a lot of issues with TFA and this was one of them. However, @FN-3263827 gave me a superb explanation behind Kylo's motivation. I can't remember where it is so maybe he would be so kind to post his reasoning again (I wouldn't do it justice)...

 

thanks for the vote of confidence, @master_shaitan ~ ha!

@KesselRunner, i'm sorry i don't remember what thread it was in (it was a long, involved conversation).
but i see you're looking for something in the movie to explain rather than fan theories and so i don't know if subtext (which is what that discussion was about) would satisfy you.

that said, some things maybe worth thinking about in the film:

• Snoke poisoned Ben into becoming Kylo Ren, so his motives--even the degree to which he's capable of having actual agency outside of Snoke--is questionable at best from the start.
  
• "family" is a serious hot button with Ren, he fights even with colleagues, and is very isolated (he connects to Rey's loneliness, dead Vader is his only confidant).
• killing Han did not make Ren stronger, so if anyone put any illusions of gaining power in his head (including himself), they were wrong.
• Ren's meltdown on the bridge seems clear evidence that he's not entirely in control of rational decision-making from an emotional/psychological standpoint.

i don't think the movie tries to answer the question of why he does what he does by design.
because his mind is obviously a rat's nest of rage and confusion and pain.
he probably couldn't articulate his own motives if you asked him--not without parroting some ideological crap from Snoke.

if i had to explain why he did what he did, i'd say it's because Ren belongs to Snoke and Snoke is a heinous crapsack who's got him so twisted around his little finger that Ren is willing to do anything to please him (logic be damned). Ren thinks he has some greater purpose in the galaxy under Snoke (which is really what he wants--to belong) and he's so desperate for it, he can't recognize a heinous crapsack even when he's sitting in it.

well that was inelegant. hahaha

here's the thing: maybe for now explaining Ren's behavior leading up to and in that moment on the bridge is less important than the way Han responds to him:

• first with rejection (there's too much Vader in him, we lost our son forever)
• then with hope (come home, we miss you)
• with acceptance (yes, anything)
  
• and ultimately with forgiveness

we may learn more in the next couple of films, but i think looking for coherent thinking from someone as obviously confused and damaged as Ren may be contrary to what actually matters in terms of the overall storytelling for TFA.

hope this was maybe useful.
this is how i make sense of Han's death--by focusing on his love, heroism, and sacrifice rather than the act of his deluded son that really couldn't have been prevented because it was wholly senseless.

edit: yikes ~ sorry for the long post!