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did Anakin only become a Sith when he protected the Jedi code

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by FallenAngel, Sep 7, 2016.

  1. FallenAngel

    FallenAngel Rebelscum

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    Anakin had admittedly killed some sand people for raping his mom, and killed Doku for cutting off his arm, but that was not the point Anakin became a Sith.
    It was when he killed Mace windu, with the emperor.

    Ironically this was also the point he was really protecting and preserving the Jedi Code.
    Mace Windu wanted to kill the Emperor who was unarmed. The antithesis of the Jedi way.
    Did Anakin only really become a Sith when he really became a Jedi master???
     
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  2. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    Anakin became a sith because his killing of mace windue was the point of no return for him .
     
  3. FallenAngel

    FallenAngel Rebelscum

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    yeh thats true except he didn't kill him.
    he disarmed him. the emperor killed him

    He did his duty as a Jedi, he reported the Emperor as the Sith they had been looking for and said he must stand trial, then when the Emperor was about to be killed in cold blood by windu he disarmed windu.
     
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  4. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    Well killing the emperor would have been shown as simple self-defense but Anakin was extremely in the moment...you are right that what he did officially was still defending the jedi code but I also doubt harming another jedi is a part of that code too..
     
  5. FallenAngel

    FallenAngel Rebelscum

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    I think the reason the Jedi are forbidden from having romantic relationship's though is so there judgment isn't clouded, so they can always do the right thing, like Obi-Wan has to do when he kills the boy he trained.
    So Anakin disarming Windu while protecting the Jedi code is really quite within the rules, he doesn't let his prior relationship with him cloud his judgment.
    wouldn't you agree?
     
  6. GingerByte

    GingerByte Guest

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    I don't think it was the fact that he disarmed Mace that cemented his fall, but the fact that he did nothing to prevent Palpatine from murdering him. If he still followed the Jedi code, he would have protected Mace Windu as well. So in reality, Anakin Skywalker was half-right.
     
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  7. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    I'd agree to a point but, as @Alex Sebire said, it's still called 2nd degree murder or something like that if he simply stands by to allow Palpatine to kill him him...if anything he should have cut off Sidious's hands too
    ..
     
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  8. FallenAngel

    FallenAngel Rebelscum

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    Mace Windu and palpatine fight.
    The Emperor get his lightning deflected back at him by mace.
    mace wins the fight.

    Anakin remains neutral

    Mace Windu then declare's he is going to kill Palpatine.
    Anakin warns him not to
    windu then ignores the warning.
    Anakin disarms him (literally).

    then the emperor sends mace out the windu, I mean window.

    @Alex Sebire yeh there is a small time period he could have tried to kill palpatine but windu was a goner at that point.

    My point is its a interesting point to rest his fall on.
    Anakin has beheaded Doku and killed man women and child while freeing his mum.
    They chose the most ambiguous time to portray his fall?
     
    #8 FallenAngel, Sep 7, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2016
  9. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    He beheaded Dooku in a fight TO THE DEATH...his killing of the tusken raiders was him losing his mind...I mean, would YOU sit still and move on if a group of people killed your mom and you had the power to stop them? i know it's a dark thought but that's similar to what's in his head when it happens...Lucas himself said that the scene is meant to show his start towards his fall because he is incapable of holding back his emotions and keeping them in check...Anakin was never particularly close with Mace even saying that he doesnt trust anakin until his accusations are proven correct but it's his duty as a jedi to protect others; What he was thinking in that moment in letting Windu die was that "What if The Chancellor Is right that he can save Padme?" If he were to interfere then maybe Padme will die (which she did regardless)
    .
     
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  10. FallenAngel

    FallenAngel Rebelscum

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    @Alex Sebire Can you think of a better way this could have gone?
    remember palpatine has already become anakins confidante
    he knows about the sand people and got Anakin to kill doku.

    This could with minor tweaks been a miles better fall to the dark side.
     
  11. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    Maybe it could have been better with the fight alsting longer and mace begging anakin to fight alongside him, which he does initially, but then mace is injured and he force-lightnings Anakin instead for "betraying" his trust until Windu comes back to save the day and Anakin is too weak to stop Palpatine from killing him but then he apologizes to his new master and vows his allegiance as a sith apprentice.
     
  12. FallenAngel

    FallenAngel Rebelscum

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    Yeh I like the scenes, And I think his motivations are very clear.
    I'm highlighting though there is a more clear cut time he is doing something against the jedi code.
    Though justified, we would all have killed them if they raped our mums to death.

    But there is no ambiguity, he is clearly in breach of the jedi code.
    --- Double Post Merged, Sep 7, 2016, Original Post Date: Sep 7, 2016 ---
    haha, sorry I missed this post yeh totally agree he should.
     
  13. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    I thought I felt the ambiguity a bit...it's very subtle but it's there, it's hard to tell because it's mainly an internal conflict..
     
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  14. FallenAngel

    FallenAngel Rebelscum

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    for me I always wondered why Anakin went and got mace Windu when palpatine knew so much incriminating stuff about him.
    all palpatine had to say was he killed an unarmed doku and a load of sand people arrest him, theres defiantly evidence.
    --- Double Post Merged, Sep 7, 2016, Original Post Date: Sep 7, 2016 ---
    @AstromechRecords
    it probably would have been better if palpatine had informed Anakin about his mothers location, to gain anakins trust more.
    like I heard a rumour about your mother she's hear, then given him the location, making sure that Anakin was encouraged to take revenge for anything they had done against his mother, then echoed out palpatined words as Anakin killed them all.

    then when mace and the palpatine fight some how bring Anakin in so that he ultimately kills windu himself?
     
    #14 FallenAngel, Sep 7, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2016
  15. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    Or maybe if Palpatine thinks Mace is dead and Anakin says, "what Have I DONE?!" and pledges himself as a new sith apprentice and that's when Windu gets up in horror and then tries to also arrest anakin so anakin kills him
    .
     
  16. CTrent29

    CTrent29 Rebel Official

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    No. Anakin became a Sith when he vowed to serve Sidious and commenced upon attacking the Jedi Temple and killing the Separatist leaders.
     
  17. FallenAngel

    FallenAngel Rebelscum

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    yep, he literally became a Sith when the emperor made him Darth can't argue with that.:D
     
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  18. Darth Sidious

    Darth Sidious Rebel Official

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    I don't think Anakin became a Sith until he said, "I pledge myself to your teachings." When he cut off Windu's hand, he didn't intend to become a Sith, and becoming a Sith requires intent.
     
  19. SegNerd

    SegNerd Rebel Official

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    There are really two different questions here. One is, "When does Anakin formally become a Sith?" which is pretty obvious, as noted above. However, there is a second question, which is "When is Anakin's fate sealed?" A major theme of Star Wars is a balance between free will and destiny, so you could potentially make the argument for anything from "Anakin was doomed from birth" to "Anakin had free will and could've turned back until the last possible moment".

    According to Yoda, "Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will," so it is possible that Anakin's fate is sealed as soon as he attacks the Tusken Raiders. However, even Yoda's statement is potentially ambiguous, because he could be speaking in terms of destiny ("Once you start down the dark path, it is literally impossible to turn back") or in terms of psychology ("Once you start down the dark path, no one ever chooses to turn back").

    Yoda is very wise, but he is neither omniscient nor infallible, so there is also the possibility that Yoda was wrong. Depending on your point of view, Anakin's redemption may have disproven this statement. Also, "oracle"-type characters are sometimes known to tell people what they need to hear, rather than telling the literal truth.

    In short, I believe Anakin's point of no return is intentionally left open to interpretation. I think it conveys messages both about making decisions and about fulfilling your destiny.
     
  20. Kyber

    Kyber Rebelscum

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    No one becomes a Sith instantly. Same as how no one becomes a Jedi instantly. It takes a lot of time. Palpatine has been training Anakin to become a Sith ever since he arrived at the Jedi Temple. Read the Anakin and Obi-Wan comic. Palpatine has been manipulating Anakin since the very beginning. At what point did Anakin become an official "Sith"? When he pledged himself as Palpatine's apprentice. "Always two there are". Maul isn't even a Sith anymore because he is no longer an official "Sith" anymore after Palpatine chose another apprentice.
     
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