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SPECULATION Did Darth Plagueis Create Anakin?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Xeven, Apr 9, 2016.

  1. CTrent29

    CTrent29 Rebel Official

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    What does it matter whether Plagueis had created Anakin or not? What does it prove?





    Why does Rey have to be the Chosen One? Or Luke? Why can't we allow Anakin to be the Chosen One and move on? There is no law that the Chosen One has to be "ideal" with little or no flaws. How can the Force be in balance only with the existence of the Jedi? Balance equals good? Really? I find that hard to accept. In fact, I find this theory a little childish.
     
  2. BobaFettNY21

    BobaFettNY21 Force Attuned

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    That's why not a lot of older fans liked the Chosen One/Balance stuff regarding the Force in the PT. Nobody cared enough to really explain it and left it out there for the audience to run in circles. Its like the Sifo-Dyas thing. Here's a plot thingy....but....well...yeah, its a thingy, don't worry about it.

    The plot of the PT asked us to care about it, and yet didn't explain it.

    And it still matters, unfortunately, because a character mentioned 'balance' in the first scene of TFA. So we could really be going in the Matrix direction, which would be highly disappointing, and I'm not a pessimist at all.
     
  3. tm0910196

    tm0910196 Guest

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    Interesting no one has replied to this! At any rate, yes, I believe I did see it, and am sharing it here:

    Screen Shot 2016-09-07 at 10.11.34 PM.png

    I had my brother look, and he saw it, too. Not edited. Literally just a screenshot. I don't think it's a stretch to say that this visual clue is a direct indication that Anakin was created thanks to Plagueis, whether it was willed by the Force or not.
     
    #43 tm0910196, Sep 8, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 8, 2016
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  4. GingerByte

    GingerByte Guest

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    Yes, plenty have seen it over the years. It is intentional foreshadowing :p.
    The Sifo-Dyas plotline didn't really need to be fleshed out though. We received enough puzzle pieces to guess the answer ourselves without The Clone Wars, and it turned out most people were right! No one really cared about this plotpoint anyway.

    The prophecy was explained though. The Sith had become too powerful over the years, and only by eliminating them would balance be restored; this is the official explanation from Lucas' mouth. The TFA line works on the same principles.
     
    #44 GingerByte, Sep 8, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 8, 2016
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  5. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    The fact is this - if Anakin was created by the Force to bring balance then there simply has to be multiple chosen one's born every time the Force is out of balance.
    In my view, this is why Lucas introduced the Plagueis storyline. Admittedly, he said himself that it is open to interpretation but when you actually give it thought and with the arrival of a new trilogy with a new imbalance, the Force creation causes problems.

    So in my view, unless more chosen one's pop up, Anakin was created by Plagueis manipulating the midichlorians of Shmi.
     
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  6. Voxx

    Voxx Jedi Hero of Legend

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    Plagueis didn't know Shmi so how could he manipulate midichlorians in her? In the novel, when they heard about a boy born of the Force, Plagueis wanted Anakin killed because he thought the Force was trying to "strike back" in retaliation against Plagueis manipulating the Force and midichlorians.

    Plagueis did not create Anakin.
     
  7. Fuzzball

    Fuzzball Force Sensitive

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    It is true that Plagueis didn't know Shmi and wasn't aware of Anakin's existence until very shortly before his death. However, it's not quite as simple as that.

    In legends, Plagueis secretly funded Gardulla the Hutt's slavery operations and pod-racing events on Tatooine. He had also purchased slaves from the Hutts to use as test subjects for his midichlorian experiments to try to unlock the secret of immortality. Knowing that, I think it's possible he once came into contact with Shmi and performed experiments on her leading to the indirect birth of Anakin years later without Plagueis realising it. But that's sheer speculation on my behalf.

    In the Plagueis thread, I posted this a while back about the mystery of Anakin's creation:

    I wonder if Disney will delve deeper into the Skywalker birth mystery by explaining Plagueis was responsible.

    To inform you of how Plagueis could have created Anakin from legends material for those that are interested, I'll list you a few excerpts from Dan Wallace's Book of Sith released in 2012 about Plagueis' scientific journal. The key thing to note is that Plagueis had a business partnership existing with Gardulla the Hutt and he bought slaves from the Hutts to use as test subjects for his midi-chlorian experiments:

    "What is the force? The Jedi say it is created by life, but I say the Force creates life."

    "My ultimate goal is the secret of life - that life gives us consciousness, for without consciousness each of us is nothing. Through science, I will create new life and sustain my own. There is no reason why Darth Plagueis could not live forever."

    "I began with experiments on scurriers and other small creatures. I used my will, amplified through my body's own midi-chlorians, to override the lesser concentrated midi-chlorian voices in the test subjects. This proved more challenging than I predicted. Because midi-chlorians are linked by a universal mind, the ones in my own cells seemed to resist this imposition on their fellows. But eventually I succeeded, first with small creatures, then with slaves purchased from the Hutts. I forced the midi-chlorians to override their natural life cycles."

    In James Luceno's novel, there are references to the business partnership that existed between Plagueis and Gardulla the Hutt.

    Damask motioned negligently. “I tease you, Gardulla. I know little about Tatooine, other than that the planet was heir to an ecological catastrophe in the dim past, and that its vast deserts now support a population of ne’er-do-wells, scoundrels, and hapless spacers of all species. I’ve heard it said that nothing pans out on Tatooine, and that beings who reside there age prematurely.”
    Damask knew, too, that the ancient Sith had once had an outpost on Tatooine, but he kept that to himself.

    "What are you offering in return for our investment?”
    A light came into the Hutt’s dark, oblique eyes. “A Podrace course that will make those on Malastare seem like amateur runs. In addition, the renaissance of an annual Podrace event that will bring tens of thousands of gamblers to Tatooine and fill my coffers to overflowing.” She paused, then added: “And I’m willing to take you on as a partner.”
    A silent partner,” Damask amended.

    ...Jabba reacted in annoyance. “...I know you were instrumental thirty years ago in giving Gardulla the run of Tatooine, as a base for her slavery operations and Podracing events..."

    Back to Plagueis' scientific journal:

    "But I believe that by using this method I can trick the midi-chlorians into creating a zygote. Then it would simply be a matter of growing the subject under normal biological conditions. Such a subject could, of course, takes years to hit the developmental milestones of a typical humanoid, but he could have a midi-chlorian count as high as 20,000 per cell. That is more than any Jedi or Sith in recorded history. Although entirely theoretical, such an achievement is intriguing.

    "So we come back to midi-chlorians. These organisms allow beings to live and provide a connection to the force. If bred in sufficient quantities, midi-chlorians can even conceive a new life form and bestow upon it powers greater than any Jedi has ever dreamed, generating a vergeance in the force."

    "If I induce midi-chlorians to create such a being, my handiwork would fit such a description of their Chosen One. But he would be an agent of my will. How fitting that the misguided reliance on superstition could lead to a Sith creation that is hailed by the Jedi as a saviour."
    Luke Skywalker wrote his own message after discovering the journal for himself:

    "I can't help feeling a chill as I read this account by Plagueis, knowing that my father was known for his high midi-chlorian count, which was supposedly even higher than Yoda's."
     
    #47 Fuzzball, Sep 9, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2016
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  8. Fuzzball

    Fuzzball Force Sensitive

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    Did Plagueis absolutely confirm he wanted Anakin killed? I know that he feared Anakin was the result of the force striking back and was going to kill him, but didn't Plagueis decide he wanted to meet Anakin face-to-face to get a true sense of him and confirm if his fears were true or not?

    I recall Plagueis receiving a force vision of Anakin's future as Darth Vader, very shortly before his death, where straight afterwards he decided "the boy would change the course of history" and stopping Qui-Gon was "the key to everything". I don't recall Plagueis mentioning he definitely wanted to kill Anakin. It seemed like in the DP novel, Plagueis' true thoughts on Anakin were concealed.

    The final chapter of the DP novel is called "Taking the future from the now", and the very final scene is Anakin meeting Palpatine, where Palpatine says to himself that he will make Anakin become his apprentice in the future. I once theorised that Plagueis viewed himself as a liability to his own Grand Plan - after receiving the vision of Anakin becoming Darth Vader - and that Plagueis decided he needed to stage his own death, after learning the secret to immortality, to commence Anakin's journey towards the dark side. This would have been because Plagueis realised Anakin's power was needed to destroy the Jedi, whilst Palpatine's political skills were needed to destroy the Republic. With Plagueis and Palpatine together, there would have been no way for Anakin to become a Sith apprentice due to the Rule of Two - Palpatine wouldn't have allowed it to happen anyway. Also, with the Jedi discovering Maul, Plagueis may have felt the plan for Palpatine and himself to become Chancellor and Co-Chancellor would have raised too many suspicions.

    So, in my opinion, Plagueis had 3 options upon discovering Anakin and his potential with the force.
    1. Destroy Anakin.
    2. Destroy Palpatine.
    3. "Destroy" himself.
    In my theory (back when I thought Snoke was definitely Plagueis :D), Plagueis chose option "c". In the words of Plagueis himself, "...who better than a human to wear the mask of power while an immortal Sith Lord rules in secret!." Plagueis, after succeeding in achieving immortality, watched the rise of the Empire and Darth Vader in secret for many years until...;)
     
    #48 Fuzzball, Sep 9, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2016
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  9. Sido-Dyas13

    Sido-Dyas13 Clone

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