Did TLJ + TFA invalidate the ending of ROTJ + Luke Skywalker?

Well, even if Lucas felt that away about the ST, he should have held on to the franchise.

 

Your issue seems to be that an ST shouldn’t have been made in the first place. There is no argument against this that’ll convince you otherwise. I suggest sticking with 1-6 and not spamming these forums with endless negative threads.

 

First off, Lucas was planning on making a new trilogy before he sold the rights to Disney, so new movies were coming. He had originally conceived Star Wars as a serial, so I don't have a problem with the continuing story of the Skywalk ... er ... whatever this series has become.

It has more to do with the execution.

Lucasfilm didn't have to try to recreate the Empire-Rebellion dynamic of the originals. They could've easily had a thriving New Republic -- one that, over thirty years, had reclaimed a large portion of the galaxy. But there could've still been pockets of the old Empire, warring with the New Republic as well as one another. That sort of dynamic could've allowed Lucasfilm to crank out new trilogies from now until the end of time. For whatever reason, they needed the conflict to be galaxy-wide. But it was never the size of the conflict that made Star Wars interesting. It was the interesting characters that were put in interesting and perilous situations.

So, yes, these new films sully the Skywalker legacy. The only remaining member of the Skywalker lineage (unless Luke has a secret child) is now a villainous, patricidal maniac whom Luke helped create. Between Vader and Kylo Ren, you could argue that the Skywalkers are more of a scourge to that galaxy far, far away than its savior.

 

Lucas many positions.

In the early 80's he often spoke about a PT and an ST. He even discussed it with Mark Hamill. He decided against continuing the work after Return because of his kids. Then he gave a go at the PT. Then he said maybe there was no need for a ST but still included story treatments when he sold it to Disney.

Han would be scandalized by your level of cynicism. Of course Disney wants money. But profit often works with creative skill and artistry. The idea that only one motive is at play simply isn't the real world.

Now does it undo the victory if ROTJ no. Because I think they took great care to continue on from a point that looked at the happy ending and created a story that wasn't a clean slate.

 

Honestly I was surprised Disney started Episode 7 to take place after ROTJ and include the original cast. I was pleased with JJ Abrams job incorporating the original cast yet introducing new characters in lead roles.

Star Wars needs the cohesive leadership and vision that the Marvel Avengers Universe possesses. Currently feels like Disney lacks that strong leadership to maintain a consistent big picture roadmap for Star Wars. Logically it would take time to get that set up. Disney got out the gate quick cranking out movies. I thought JJ Abrams gave them that needed time. However, the struggles are obvious with rewrites (Rogue One), new directors coming and going (Rogue One, Solo). Star Wars now feels like this Sequel Trilogy is buying Disney time to get their big vision in order. Hopefully they follow the Avengers big picture template and even bring over the people who managed that effort. Avengers succeeded locking up key cast members to cover a long list of movies (Robert Downey Jr., Chris Evans, Scarlet Johanssen, Chris Hemsworth, etc.). Star Wars may have struggles there. Harrison Ford only agreed to 1 movie. Supposedly Daisy Ridley won't do any more movies after 9, but we heard similar about Robert Downey Jr. after Ironman 3. Unfortunately, Carrie Fisher's death left a gap for Episode 9. Hopefully Disney gets everything in order for after the Sequel Trilogy.

After this Sequel Trilogy I'm curious where Disney goes. Someone on another thread suggested RJ's trilogy could be a reboot. I could see that. Not necessarily a traditional reboot but a partial reset. I could see them eliminate the concept of trilogies, drop the Episode Numbers on future films and follow the Avengers model. The movies would be tied together some more closely than others but all part of the Star Wars Universe.

If the Rocky movies can survive Rocky 5, Star Wars can endure a bad movie here & there. Despite being diagnosed with brain damage in Rocky 5, he goes on to fight again in Rocky Balboa. If you're still reading this and interpret that to mean the Luke Skywalker in Episode 8 is the equivalent of the brain damaged Rocky that is ignored in the Rocky series, like this or laugh at it. Rocky lived to fight again with actual boxing gloves in the self-titled movie and then mentored an excellent fighter Adonis Creed Johnson. Maybe years down the road Mark Hamill directs and stars in "Luke Skywalker" and future movies where he trains Jedi well.

I felt like the Prequel Trilogy screwed with the Original Trilogy to an extent. But the Original Trilogy has survived any abominations other movies and the Lucas Special Editions have thrown at it. The Original Trilogy will always stand on its own no matter what. I still want a Despecialized Edition Original Trilogy on blu-ray. Unfortunately, the latest Disney acquisition doesn't appear to include any agreement for Episode 4 to make that possible.

 

I think Lucas claimed he had some scripts for the ST already to go before Disney supposedly passed on them.

If this is true, then Lucas's version of the ST would have had no doubt a conflict where the galaxy is at war again.

 

He never had any scripts for 7 through 9. He only had treatments. And Michael Arndt never finished the Episode 7 script

 

Yeah you can either have superfluous with the nostalgia bong or superfluous with a twist and breaking some eggs.
Superfluous to the OT story anyhow.
That's why I don't like prequels (not just these but in general). Superfluidity on teflon in all cases.

 

Really? Interesting. Thanks for the information.

In any case, saying that Lucas said there is "no more story to tell after ROTJ" is not true if he had treatments for the ST.

 

Yes they did invalidate Return of the Jedi, I was never really happy with the stormtroopers being back..

but episode 7 was as good as it could have been. Props to JJ.

 

"The continuing stories of the Skywalk....er...."

Well that 1 bit if sarcasm tells exactly how i feel about the ST. You can't call the episodic films the Sky Saga if thier all ded by 10.

 

To be frank, I had the same concern (I once thought as you do). The ST didn’t seem anything more than a money spinner. TFA all but confirmed that. It didn’t take the story anywhere new, it merely hinted at a possible change. But for me TLJ made that change real and the story for Luke, the Jedi and ReyBen gave this trilogy real meaning. It will always feel slightly tacked on I guess but now it feels like Vader’s story has been continued in meaningful way. If it ever turns out that Snoke was Plagueis - even more so!

But seriously, in many ways ROTJ didn’t really tie everything up because, thinking about it, restoring peace in the galaxy and rebuilding the Jedi is a difficult task. We’re seeing that play out now literally but also through the “love story” of ReyBen...

It’s new, it makes sense and it is relevant. I embrace the ST.

 

In Return of the Jedi Luke refused to accept Yoda’s judgment that Vader was simply evil and there was nothing to do but kill him. He insisted on still believing the man he’d idealized was still there in his father. His pacifistic, self-sacrificial, commitment to loving rather than fighting his father was finally what reached Anakin.

In the prequels we then learned about just how wrongly Yoda had treated Anakin all along. He mistrusted Anakin from the time he was a child, on through his appointment to be a liaison to the Supreme Chancellor. And Yoda’s personal advice to him in Revenge of the Sith was profoundly cold and thoughtless. Yoda was a dogmatist about the Jedi ways, pushing a harmfully extreme doctrine of the renunciation of all attachments. He didn’t trust or want to cultivate Anakin’s power and he didn’t teach Anakin how to healthily love.

So in The Last Jedi, Luke was self-critical enough to figure out how he was responsible for his mistakes and how his Order was responsible for its mistakes. Yoda finally got it too. Yoda gets it that Rey is like Luke and she not only can, but has to, figure things out on her own. There are things she can discover that Yoda and Luke, products of earlier eras, can’t get.

Yoda came back to reject the old dogma that he was so responsible for promulgating in the first place.

In my opinion, the Sequel trilogies subtly acts as an alternate timeline: We know how Anakin actually went as Vader. Now we’re resetting the table and exploring what would have happened if Anakin had gone differently–a Kylo Ren route wise enough to overthrow Snoke but stay on the Dark Side. What if Obi-Wan and Yoda had been more introspective with Luke? Now Luke can play the Obi-Wan and Yoda role and correct their mistakes instead of repeating them.

 

It didn't invalidate at all. Always in motion the future is. There's always a threat and nothing stays the same.

 

I found the mouse droid!

 

Yes, but it doesn't matter because TLJ is a perfect film. The way Luke Skywalker is treated in TLJ is astronomically more symbolic and more artistic than what the original trilogy did - TLJ is even about saying that the British accent is a secret mastermind of Luke's story