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SPECULATION George Lucas' Sequel Trilogy

Discussion in 'General Sequel Trilogy Discussion' started by master_shaitan, Apr 21, 2016.

  1. CTrent29

    CTrent29 Rebel Official

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    Look, it's fine to enjoy the PT, but to deny the fact that they are severely flawed movies (and I mean severely flawed) is foolish. I mean, I enjoy a lot of movies that I wouldn't call good. I have a large amount of affection for the 1998 Godzilla. But I know that it isn't good. I'm not going to go up to a huge Godzilla fan and try to argue with them because I understand their criticisms of it.


    "It's foolish" to deny that the PT movies are severely flawed? Foolish? Why are you trying to get those who love the Prequel movies to accept your opinion by calling them "foolish"? Why can't you accept the fact that not everyone agrees with your opinion of those films?

    And I have to say the same for those who disliked "The Force Awakens". I'm not a big fan of the film, but I have to accept the fact that there are people who enjoyed the movie. What else is there to say? Why should I insist that everyone agree with my opinion?

    I do not see the point in insulting fans whose opinions of any of the STAR WARS seemed to differ. To me, it's pointless, because all forms of entertainment is subjective.


    The first movie was a overall success yet old school Trekkers hate it and that's how I see the prequels. No matter how awesome the new generation received them, the hardcore OT fans are always going to hate.

    I'm an old hardcore OT fan. "A New Hope" was the first STAR WARS movie I had ever seen. And yet, I'm also a hardcore fan of the PT. What I'm trying to say is that not every OT fan hated the PT movies.
     
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  2. Darth Arthritus

    Darth Arthritus Rebel Commander

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    I have a few short points and will hopefully respond in greater detail later.

    The logic of PT defenders is absolutely mind boggling.

    1) If we are being fair and adjusting for inflation, ESB is 13 on the all time domestic box office gross list, AOTC on the other hand grossed less than any other star wars movie when adjusted for inflation at 91.

    2) PT defenders can't get over the amount of money those movies made and use this as the primary basis for their arguement. So, in the same vein, TFA is a better movie than any single PT movie based on box office gross and proves people wanted a movie unlike the PT.

    3) People don't dislike Star Wars on a whole, they are clearly passionate about it. If they weren't passionate their wouldn't be disdain over the creative direction of the movies. Baskin Robins won't disappear because they make a few bad flavors, people will demand they make better flavors. The fact that BR doesn't disappear because of those bad flavors does not prove that those flavors aren't bad.

    4) Dressing like Darth Maul does not prove TPM is a good movie, it proves people like at the very least the visuals of that character, and in fact that character was utilized much more effectively on TCW.

    More to come...
     
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  3. Amanaman

    Amanaman Rebel Official

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    My good friend, there is just too much out there to prove the success of the PT but as I have said countless times, haters are going to hate no matter what. Oldschool OT fans are NEVER going to admit the the PT were well recieved no matter what they see. If you talk about the money the movies made they will try to counter saying that money doesn't matter, if you talk about the mershandise that can be seen everywhere haters will argue that even crappy movies sell mershandise, if you show them the countless PT character cosplays that can be seen in every SW event, convention, Disney park ect they will still give some lame excuse trying to downgrade the PT in some way because in their mind EVERYONE has to hate these movies. You have any idea how many CGI arguments about the PT I have been in? Yet when I give evidence of all the things in the PT that were not CGI and that they were actual models and costumes, haters try to change the subject to another reason why the PT sucked. Do these SW CGI haters even know that TFA had more CGI than TPM?

    It doesn't matter what you can say, show or prove, PT haters are always going to hate. You want a perfect example of this? Then look no further than Darth Plagueis. How many people hate the PT and even more so the Midichlorians? Yet how many PT haters just love Plagueis and are so desperate in wanting to see him that they even get mad and argue that the ST is going to suck if Snoke is not Plagueis. How can this be? When you read the novel Darth Plagueis you see that what makes this character so interesting is all his work that comes from Midichlorian reserch. Sure he has many other interesting qualities but everything about the Midichlorians in said novel is really interesting and Plagueis as a whole was something that the ''now hated, crappy director, doesn't know how to make movies,ruined SW'' George Lucas came up with. Shouldn't Plagueis bee hated as well since Midichlorians are the basis of everything he is? Fans argue about the PT yet I am surprised at the vast amounts of posts I see of said haters wanting to see many more aspects of the PT. Isn't that hypocrisy?

    Give us more Darth Maul, let us see Darth Plaguis, continue doing Clone Wars, show more PT elements in the ST, give us a Mace Windu movie and the list goes on and on. Do you have any idea of how many haters I have met that when you ask them how many times they saw the movie in the theatre they tell you like about 10 times each? How many times does a person have to watch a movie till he/she finally understands said movie sucked? And What about the Special Editions? You know how many people I have heard saying they just hated what Lucas did to SW with the SE and yet now there are many of these haters saying that they would love to get PT special editions?

    They own the prequel movies in every way possible as blue ray, dvd, special covers ect. They collect countless PT toys and merch, they go to PT related events and even cosplay as PT characters in conventions and events everywhere yet when they are in a blog they hate the PT with all their heart and they say they wish said movies were removed from canon. When I see all of this I just can't help wondering if these people are true haters or if they are just closet PT lovers in denial.
     
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  4. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    For me, I can objectively see that the PT were not very well made films. There is a lot wrong with them. But any new trilogy wasn't going to live up to the OT, with all of it's nostalgic baggage. Lucas knew this. But he had a story he wanted to tell. He himself admitted that the first two chapters of the PT weren't going to be the films people wanted. He knew that if the PT was studio controlled then there was no way they'd tell the story he wanted to tell.

    Now, the point I am getting at here is that, for me at least, the thing I love above all else in regard to Star Wars is the mythology. The story. I've spent days talking about the PT not because they're fantastically well made films (they're not) but because of the story they tell. And for all the negative things that could be said about the PT, the rounded, thoughtful and dramatic story that unfolds is certainly not one of them. What Lucas did with the PT was essentially expand the Star Wars universe and mythology - allowing it both survive and grow into something greater, at the expense of the individual films. And with the PT, it has to be said that he took risks - giving them originality yet connecting them to what came before, all the while staying true to the story he wanted to tell - a story that rhymed but progressed and provided us with a rounded mythological tale.

    With the ST, I am not certain we are getting a worthy continuation of this. We're getting a short term production from a company that is looking to get its money back as quickly as possible by making films that they believe will appeal to the masses. Hey, that's understandable and not a bad way to go about things. It will likely bring in a new generation and appeal to the nostalgic rusty innards of the older fans. However - for me, the price is too great. I for one didn't want a new trilogy for the sake of it. I like seeing Solo back on screen as much as the next guy, but I don't want to see Solo because I can, I want to see him because there is a story worthy of both being told and progressing Lucas' mythology. What I saw from TFA was near exact copy of ANH (with it has to be said some great)new characters that would appeal to todays audience) and a story that right now doesn't appear to take the saga anywhere new (Empire vs Rebellion, desert rat becoming a Jedi, evil guys blowing up planets). It's a repetition. Or so it seems at the moment. Time will tell.

    But the signs aren't great. And with Han Solo spins offs coming (crazy move in my opinion) and stories based around the OT films and characters I still see nothing new, nothing worthy of what Lucas created. I'm happy to give it a shot of course. I will be first in line at every Star Wars premiere. But I shall temper my expectations next time as for me without Lucas these films are fan films. Well made fan films. But fan films all the same. So far...
     
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  5. CTrent29

    CTrent29 Rebel Official

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    The logic of PT defenders is absolutely mind boggling.

    1) If we are being fair and adjusting for inflation, ESB is 13 on the all time domestic box office gross list, AOTC on the other hand grossed less than any other star wars movie when adjusted for inflation at 91.

    2) PT defenders can't get over the amount of money those movies made and use this as the primary basis for their arguement. So, in the same vein, TFA is a better movie than any single PT movie based on box office gross and proves people wanted a movie unlike the PT.



    The logic of PT defenders is mind boggling? Why? Because we like a group of films that you dislike? You're going to insult the intelligence of a group of moviegoers, because we don't share your view of the PT movies?

    And by the way, I feel that box office performance is a poor way to judge a movie. There are have been plenty of box office flops or movies that barely made a profit that have received critical acclaim. In fact, I can think of a good number of box office flops that I have truly enjoyed. And there have been successful films that have been poorly received by critics or by myself. ART OR ENTERTAINMENT OF ANY KIND IS SUBJECTIVE. I find it hard to accept the idea that one can use logic to determine what a moviegoer like or dislike. Even if a large number of movie fans like or dislike a certain film, I see no point in following the crowd. I would rather form my own opinion.
     
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  6. GingerByte

    GingerByte Guest

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    Don't know if anyone's mentioned this, but I understand that Lucas had a journal with a few pages of ST notes from the 80s. He didn't plan on doing a sequel trilogy originally, but may have if the studio he wanted to build around 2007/ 8 went ahead. When selling Lucasfilm to Disney, he expanded upon the notes with a really rough draft for episode 7, and a trilogy-wide rough story plan. This was to maximise the total value.

    It was definitely more than that. I doubt Lucas would have let some 'nobodies' decide upon the origins of the Jedi, Sith & their respective temples.
     
  7. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    Well it wasn't up to him anymore as all he could do was to "consult"
     
  8. GingerByte

    GingerByte Guest

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    Lucas probably had a massive collection of books filled with lore and stuff. I doubt Lucasfilm would have discarded all that stuff, considering that they respected him, and it would make their stories easier to write.
     
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  9. Darth Sidious

    Darth Sidious Rebel Official

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    I think the reason that Lucas said that there would never be an ST is because he was aging and he couldn't find anyone who he trusted to continue Star Wars. When Disney gained his trust, he said, "go ahead."
     
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