How strong is the First Order

that's a neat tidbit! where does that info come from? i wonder if they're talking about a Super Star Destroyer type ship or if something else is in the works...

 

If memory serves correctly, it's in the TFA Visual Guide. Read Life Debt the other day, so figured checking it again only made sense.

Let's see...

Taken from the data file on page 43, Finalizer Crew

The Resistance has limited intelligence of the First Order fleet, and many fear that the Resurgent-class [the class of The Finalizer] is not the largest of the new Star Destroyer designs.

 

This is actually a very good question. TFA really needed some social-political context. Hopefully ep VIII will answer this question.
I think so far we can assume that they arent really strong apart from the SK. They are supposed to be a small fanatic militia built upon the remaining fractions and ideals of the Empire...

 

I would love to see Canon Eclipse modified by Snoke 2 look like Legends Eclipse.

 

I've been wondering, is the first order named as such as an evolution of the empire or is it related to the Force groups - e.g. Snokes first order that comes before (or is superior to) the Jedi and the Sith orders?

 

The name The First Order expresses a political and ideological whish just as the name Third Reich expresses a political and ideological whish. The whish to return to an idealized political past. With the Third Reich it was the whish to return to the construct of an idyllic rural past which revolved around idealized and fictional medieval 'german' values. The First Order is the remnant of the First Galactic Empire. It's whish is to return to its own idealized version of Palpatine's Empire, the first order. What that idealized version of Palpatine's empire as imagined by The First Order looks like is still too early to tell for sure. However, from Snoke's dialogue in the novelization is does become clear that some features of the First Galactic Empire are discussed, criticized and emended. They knew what went wrong and attempt to fix those mistakes in order to facilitate the return and survivability of Palpatine's first order.

 

I originally assumed that Starkiller Base was created in a twin sun solar system, and it needed to drain one of the stars for each shot. After that, it would essentially be worthless. Considering that each shot destroyed an entirely solar system, it seemed like a worthwhile weapon when used at the beginning of a war if you wanted to cripple a larger enemy.

Then someone told me that whole planet could move.

And even for Star Wars, that's absurd.

Just moving the planet around within its system would have catastrophic effects. And yet the planet is still structurally sound - with vegetation growing on the surface, because apparently they also did something to protect the surface from the dramatic changes in light and temperature.

But to reach another star, even a relatively close one, it would require going into hyperspace. A planet. In hyperspace. And with a shield that doesn't keep anything out that is moving at light speed.

I generally try to pretend that no one ever said Starkiller Base could move.

 

They have a shield and they have installed undisclosed instruments to maintain the integrity of the planet's crust and climate, one disclosed instrument was the Thermal Oscilator. The planet is only supposed to move very small distances at just below hyperspeed to bring the weapon into effective firing range for it to warp space and time with its projectiles.

The weapon was only designed as an temporary instrument of war for a specific objective: to destroy the Republic. It designers and commander, Hux, knew that eventually the planet would become unstable and collapse. That is why Hux reports to Snoke: "The collapse of the planet has begun!", it implies they knew it was going to happen in the first place but were caught off guard because the Resistance breached the Oscilator.

The First Order consist of military pragmatists. They think functionally. The function of the base was to destroy the Republic, when they found out it had survived this ordeal they came up with ancillary objectives to test for how long they could stretch its life span. That they lost the Starkiller was no big deal for the First Order. They knew it was going to happen and prepared for it.

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TAKE NOTE PABLO HIDALGO, I'M ALREADY DOING A BETTER JOB THAN YOU'RE DOING

 

Why in the world would they develop and implement technology to protect the trees on the surface of the planet? The Thermal Oscillator was supposedly to keep the energy stored within the planet stable. Moving slower than hyperspeed it would take lifetimes to get from one star system to another.

If the weapon was only designed to be temporary, there are plenty of solar systems with 2 stars - which is why I was dumbfounded to hear the planet was supposed to move at all. If they can move planets around like space ships, the rebels in the OT should have used a moving planet for their hidden base. Would have been a lot easier than the way they were doing it.

As I said in my previous post, I agree with your assessment of the functionality of the weapon - even if it was only able to be used one or two times, it's still devastating enough to justify its construction. There's really no reason to make the planet move, and considering how absurd that idea is, I don't know why they decided to make it mobile.

 

The base only has to move small distances to aim the weapon and make use of space/time distortions which are always present in any planet's near proximity. It does not need hyperspace. The Starkiller's projectiles themselves do travel through hyperspace and bend space and time

 

Well, I guess it'd be pretty hard to come up with some hackneyed backstory about Hux secretly being a hippie, so that might be a tough one to answer...

 

The rebels don't have the resources nor the technical minds to conceive something on this scale. And remember the Empire was already capable of moving space stations like the deathstars which were only 1/6 the size of the Starkiller base.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 19, 2017, Original Post Date: Jan 19, 2017 ---

Because the planet also has a strategic geography. Furthermore, trees contribute to various forms of environmental stability in an alpine environment: think about avalanches and oxigen output. Forrests also hide things (entrances, hardware) and can be used tactically in situations where enemies might breech the shield and land troops on Starkiller's surface.

After all...............

Rey and Finn didn't see Kylo waiting for them when they exited the Oscilator...........

Kylo was hiding amid the trees

 

I'll give you points for effort - you're trying harder than they did to explain it.

 

Unfortunately this. I feel like the Star Wars universe basically atrophied for 30 years. The FO is a bunch of millenials, the Republic completely forgot all the lessons they learned against the Empire and got fat and lazy and just let the FO rebuild and attack. This is the absolute worst part of the new cannon for me. It makes everyone seems like blathering idiots.

 

Well, they are. They created another over-bloated republic just like the one that fell. But that's not wholly different from the E.U., which left the Imperial Remnant around forever, even through NJO. The GFFA is never really going to be ruled under one legislature without a defined confederate-federal system.....oh god....we're nerds lol

 

Unless the stars in AGFFA are a whole heck of a lot closer together than ours, the average distance would be about five light-years. Meaning it would take something, moving at the speed of light, about five years to reach the closest stellar neighbor. Without stars to fuel it, the weapon is useless. Without traveling faster than light, there’s no fuel. Are you saying SKB is bending space/time around it to mitigate that distance? Creating an ‘Einstein-Rosen bridge’?

Pretty sure “confederate-federal system” is an oxymoron . . . . . . NERD!!

 

When I read the Wookipedia article on First Order Stormtroopers...

"Conscripted as soldiers, they were trained since birth, given unit designations instead of names, and subjected to years of propaganda to ensure their loyalty and obedience to the First Order and Supreme Leader Snoke.... The objective of Phasma's relentless training program was to produce the finest soldiers in the galaxy - promoting ruthlessness, yet also improvisation on the battlefield. As a result, the First Order Stormtroopers were more dangerous than their Imperial precursors." (source: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Stormtrooper_(First_Order) )​

...I see this not as true strength but as a comprehensive weakness in the First Order's overall strategy.

Look to what lengths the First Order must go in endeavoring to condition their soldiers to fight for their cause, the prolonged subjection to propaganda, the "relentless" training and emphasis on "ruthlessness."

All of it is involuntary, programmatic, and bound to break down wherever the human will proves strong enough to begin to question and eventually break from such conditioning, as was the case with FN-2187 / Finn.

This reminds me of Princess Leia Organa's classic warning to Tarkin: "The more you tighten your grip, the more star systems will slip through your fingers."

And it's true. It's a truth the Sith never mastered, which perennially ensured their failure, for all their adherence to their failed code ("Through victory, my chains are broken.")

And it's why the Force responds, sometimes forcefully, reawakening if necessary, whenever an unnatural order surges and threatens the natural flow with imbalance and control.

I'm also reminded of Yoda's exchange with Luke on Dagobah:

Luke: Is the dark side stronger?

Yoda: No. No. Quicker. Easier. More seductive.​

The Dark Side is always and correctly said to be seductive (leading aside, etymologically), never informative, never born of truth, never compelling someone to fight for what is right.

With this in mind, the Jedi should always, at least theoretically, prevail, in time, because the wisest of them would admit the search for power was an admission of weakness, and any exertion of the Force to achieve anomalous advances would only, in a very Newtonian physical manner, ensure a reaction somewhere down the road when the Force and the natural order could finally react and respond.

Best then not to try to control others, but rather ourselves. Self-control. The real birthplace of true democracy.

And the intellectual "Jedi" of our own world -- the poets, philosophers, artists -- could also tell us as much. For example, Lao Tzu's quote: "Mastering others is strength. Mastering yourself is true power."

 

Yeah, I got lazy, although I'd argue its really just a continuum of central vs. local power....oh god..........I've been spending way too much time with old Jocasta in the library, where's Master Quinlan Vos to get me on an adventure, quick!

 

I know.