SPECULATION "I am a Jedi, like my father before me."

I'm kind of refraining from going too far down this road. I suspect Luke being disillusioned with continuing the Jedi Order is going to be a source of conflict in his character and between him an Rey. The film is titled The Last Jedi and the first teaser reveals that he thinks it should end. So it stands to reason what we've been teased is what Luke thinks towards the start of the film. This isn't something they'd spoil from the end of the movie.

So Rey is there to get trained and to retrieve Luke. It seems like he's not exactly on board with either choice. So this film could be as much about Rey getting trained as it is about her convincing Luke not to give up on the Jedi order.

One of the first lines of the trilogy is without the Jedi there can be no balance in the force. It's difficult to believe that line would have survived if the trilogy arc was to end the Jedi.

 

Great words he stood by for all those years.

 

I do think emotion is the missing key. Luke obviously used emotion in bringing down the empire. However, it's hard to see them rebuilding the Jedi to be emotional beings, as that is what clearly led to Vader.

 

What a minute are Jedi like Vulcans no emotions...heheheh

 

Being told to deny emotions is what led to Vader.

Emotions can work in one's favor quite often...especially if they aren't repressed and kept hidden from those important to you.

Pro-tip: For your own sanity, don't force your own emotions down and pretend they don't exist. Find someone, anyone, to talk to about them. Or else you will become Darth Vader.

 

The EU turned Emotion into the enemy. Not the canon. Jedi are cautioned to be mindful of their emotions, to be aware, they are to understand. The are constantly seeking to be objective so that they are not acting in selfishness, with bias, and not with their considerable power doing something catastrophic. I mean if a Jedi has the power to with a thought throw folks off a cliff or flick their wrist and behead someone, shouldn't they learn to be wary of their emotions. Its not no emotion its being aware of them and mastering them so you can act with a clear mind.

 

90% agree. With @DailyPlunge too.

But let me add just one thing, another option to the list: what if that line does not refers to what Luke thinks it's better, but to what he somehow.. fears, instead?
What if that's just what he thinks it's going to happen, more likely?

 

It should also be noted that breaking the code and not addressing his emotions were very much a part of his fall.

 

I feel like Anakin's emotions led to attachment, which led him to make emotional choices instead of the logical one. If he would have let go of fear of Padame death, he'd see that Sidious was manipulating him. And he'd lose Padame anyways. Yet because fear was strong, he couldn't see through the ruse.

I find it hard to believe the new Jedi Order could exist constantly as emotional beings.

Although I could be wrong, Kenobi clearly only strikes Maul down once he sees Maul put it all together. Was that an emotional reaction?

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 18, 2017, Original Post Date: Apr 18, 2017 ---

True, which means it may be a good thing to address in this movie. When I think ultimate Jedi, Yoda comes to mind. But I'm excited to see what Luke becomes.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 18, 2017 ---

It's exactly why if I were a Jedi I'd certainly need to be wary of getting emotional. I'm mad at my girlfriend right now and if I could I'd force hang her upside down. Harmlessly, but still.

 

Luke is not an idiot, he knows that somehow to bring balance, you have to end both sides.

Like yin and yang, there can't be one without the other.

If you want to eliminate the physical dark side, you have to end the physical light side.

 

For now at least, I'm feeling pretty confident that too much is being made of the line because we know so little about the movie. If I had to guess, I'd say that Luke says it very early in the film - before agreeing to train Rey. Then (because they aren't going too waste much screen time convincing Luke to do something everyone in the theater knows perfectly well he is going to do) something significant will happen (perhaps a shared vision, or a revelation about Rey's identity) to change his mind - at least for one more student to stop the First Order, because he can't just leave the galaxy the way it is now with evil Force Users running around unopposed.

Then over the course the movie (and probably the next one), his relationship with Rey will bring Luke most (if not all) of the way back. When the trilogy ends, we'll be left with the impression that the Jedi Order will be born again. There might be some changes with regard to the Jedi Code - partially because they appear to want to focus more on the mysticism of the Force than a code of conduct, and partially because it allows future stories more room to explore the relationship between the Light and Dark Sides without repeating themselves. But by and large "Jedi" will still mean the same thing is always has.

 

Anakin never denied his emotions. This idea really drives me crazy. Anakin lost his temper and murdered a bunch of sand people. His emotions were manipulated by Palpatine. I'm not sure how anyone can watch the PT and then blame the Jedi for Anakin betrayal. It's like people are siding with the Sith.

 

+100

i think people may be defining grey with entirely too much rigor. it's not about eliminating the paradigm, it's about expanding it.
the Force may be a spectrum. there could be many shades.

that doesn't change the objective principals of good and evil.

 

You were to be careful of emotion not devoid of it. This as I saw it was a don't get carried away warning not a challenge to be completely emotionless.

The code "There is no emotion" was from the EU.

Yoda warned Anakin about fear and anger because they can lead to hate and suffering. Remember is instruction to someone who will get a plasma sword capable of cutting through almost anything or kill with a thoughtful push. Not having a temper tantrum might be good. The dark side in both the ot and pt was easier because it was fueled by rage and hate. Think of the power and focus you have when you angrily shove someone or something, that passion is a driving force. Now the jedi were supposed to be aware, calm, focused, defensive in stance to combat. Its not no emotion its wisdom in handling matters of life and death not to be biased by or deluded by them.

Padme joked that Jedi were forbidden love. Anakin chuckled and pointed out the Jedi were forbidden attachment hence not marrying. Given they have the weighty task of safe guarding as unbiased arbiters of justice in the galaxy, because of this they weren't supposed to have competition for their focus. Remeber this is not a proscriptive morality it is part of the taking on the responsibility of being a jedi. Anakin correctly pointed out that compassion was a virtue of the jedi.

Now the presentation of the jedi in the PT is a different story. I thought the level of emotion and personality was very much in keeping with a warrior monk tradition but when taken together with the teachings of mastering emotion they came off as very cold.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 19, 2017, Original Post Date: Apr 19, 2017 ---

I agree with this.

But please note people are literally saying on these boards and elsewhere that the Jedi are just as bad as the Sith. The dogmatic jedi "create the sith."

 

My friend....you have nail it.
Let see this clip

At 0:018-0:28 Is important clue.....Luke is NOT a jedi yet.He must face DV.His father.YODA told him.I GREAT TEST for him.BIG BIG test.
at 1:37-1:44 IMPORTANT
2:24-2:30 IMPORTANT
3:24 ....we see this part in Rey Vision.WHY???This is important too.
5:19-5:25...DV could kill Luke BUT he didn't.....Is HIS son.He LOVES his Son.He was seduce by the Dark Side to save his wife and sons.The emperor know it.He make a false promise to Anakin and he get MAD and evil and become DV.
In this clip DV mention Obi-wan A LOT of times.WHY???
Here is the important part in
Listen to 06:52-07:00......DV TOLD Luke that you WILL destroy the Emperor....Is your destiny....Look Lukes face.

Ok NOW this Clip
This clip is what make SW so beautiful.
Anakin was GOOD.He turn BAD and He return GOOD.I other words...From the Light,to The Dark and RETURN to THE LIGHT.
The title of this movie is Return of the Jedi BUT is NOT because the return of Luke is because Vader(Anakin)to a jedi again...

SW is ALL about the POWER OF LOVE.Is the FORCE and lives in ALL living things.The jedi WILL ALWAYS be there because is what make the FORCE STRONG.Luke is STRONG because he KNOWS that ANGER leave you to the dark side.DV was "TRYING" to bring Luke to ANGER BUT he can't.Luke want to save his father and he win.BUT how does DV know that Luke will KILL the Emperor at 06:52-07:00....Remember ANAKIN have visions and I think he see that.Is like when he see that Padme will die.

To make this short.SW is ALL about jedi and the POWER of LOVE.....Nice thread....

 

i appreciate that.

well i don't understand that.
i can only approach this from a point of reason based the philosophical tenet that evil is is an abstraction--and merely the absence of good.
a person can do evil things (perhaps even absolutely evil things), but a person in and of themselves is not absolutely evil.
even people who do evil can also love their children. that love is not invalid because it comes from a person who has done evil.
a person who does evil can be shown their error and correct it.
and even a person who is good can do things others might consider evil.

it's interesting to me that a saga that so bluntly denounces absolutism nevertheless inspires so much absolutist talk ~ hahahaha

without a common lexicon for defining these things, the discussion feels sort of relative and roundy-roundy.