I've been thinking about the movie for a while...

I really liked TLJ. But I get why people are complaining... Having the great Luke back, raised expectations... After the last scene in ROTJ, all happy, peaceful, balanced, perfect galaxy... We have chaos again.
How did they let it happen? Yeah, the saga reopened, and it wasn't to get these heroes saving the day again. Nope. It is about a new conflict, one they can't solve. Cause they already had their glory days...
The way Luke became one with the Force was "not fighting what we hate but saving what we love".
Yeah, its bittersweet to say goodbye to Luke so soon (maybe just in physical form?).. But they are trying to tell another story.
I liked the way Luke appeared and then left... Cause otherwise there would be complainings too about repeating the Obi Wan-Luke relationship with Luke-Rey, I think...

 

Yes, I get that he was sarcastically parodying people who criticize this movie. And inherent in one of his failure parodies is the (usual) accusation of sexism.

Never mind the fact that, you know, Princess Leia is one of my favorite characters in the history of cinema and I also consider Mon Mothma (the woman who leads the entire rebellion) a wonderful character as well. All of a sudden I am a sexist against females in authority because I don't like VADM Holdo.

 

Firstly, about not thinking the characters are developed, we can agree to disagree. I didn't see any emotional depth grow out of most of these characters that gave them some substance. With exception, I do think Kylo did develop. I don't think I'm "objectively wrong" and entitled to my opinion. Rey isn't any stronger or memorable a character as she was in TFA. Finn, no substance as much as I like John Boyega. Leia and Luke well, I don't see any respect or reverence given to those characters. Rose (Kelly) did a good job, but not quite memorable. Just because characters are challenged, doesn't mean it adds any depth or pushes their character arcs forward.

If you and others enjoyed the film, that's great, but don't vilify others who didn't. I think your claims of the connection between not liking the film and not thinking the characters have depth is "objectively wrong". Some people may have enjoyed the movie, but also may have thought there wasn't much character development in some despite them being challenged.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 26, 2018, Original Post Date: Feb 26, 2018 ---

OK, but I don't understand what you point is.

 

Saying that the TLJ had a lot humor; which then makes it a bad film. When the original six had the same amount of humor. However, I just simply think the humor didn't work for you. That doesn't equate to "bad writing".

 

You made the claim that this was a lazy written story and you have the audacity to complain that you're being vilified? You're saying that we like a lazy written story. You're not simply saying you don't like the film. You're saying that person who wrote it is lazy. That's vilifying the writer and the people who like it.

Here's what I said just for clarity...

I stand by this... Finn, Poe, and Rey are challenged and grow during the film. I didn't say anything about depth. That is a rather nebulous subject.

 

Luke failed, suffered and rose again, and by dying he actually become double the hero he always was. As secondary characters go, this was a hell of a send off!

 

People who don't like it have been vilified in far, far worse ways.

 

I can assure you that I'm well aware of proper forum etiquette, and I'm very sorry that my 195 posts aren't impressive to you. Being able to agree and disagree with someone's opinion is a natural part of life and is perfectly acceptable for mature parties debating almost any topic.

By disagreeing we aren't bombing his post, we're simply stating that we don't agree; a right that we all have. Bombing would be calling him a troll or using true negative ratings. You on the other hand did lash out and call us trolls, which I consider to be entirely inappropriate.

 

I really didn't get the sense that anyone learned much from their failures in this film. Other than Luke who literally didn't have a chance to make up for his tremendous failures before he was killed off. I also can't see how anyone thinks this movie is another TESB but that's my own opinion. Good post.

 

Yes, because Luke milking a deformed looking semi sentient animal with human looking udders is so mature.

 

But he did. Luke. He apologised to Kylo and then sacrified himself to save leía and all the people he had failed by giving up and retreating in ach to. Offering his life And creating an illusion of himself was purposeful.. This may not have been the character trajectory that many desired for Luke, but RJ did do justice to his character.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 26, 2018, Original Post Date: Feb 26, 2018 ---

Come on, those few unfortunate scenes could not and did not affect the mature handling of the story and its themes. We are stabbing in the dark here.

 

For how dark the above movie is there is a lot of humor in it. Especially the ending with R2 and 3P0. Even the carbonite chamber the first thing we hear is a joke from 3P0

 

I find that most of the Jokes in the OT had a reason behind them and made sense in the context of the movie. Same with TFA.
TLJ was different, most of the jokes did not make sense in the context of the movie and especially didn't make sense in the tone of the scenes.

I disagree heavily with a criticism along the lines of "you don't like this movie because it had humour in it but the old movies had just as much humour in them too"

There are different types of humour in movies and there ARE objective ways to judge humour in a movie, it is not solely based on taste.

 

Huh? Talk about spinning and distorting people's comments. Yes, I was disappointed in the film. If want to complain, I"ll complain. It doesn't make me any worse anymore than a person loving the film. You have chosen to spin it that way. And, what does that have to do with me thinking the story was written lazily? It's too different things. That doesn't mean I think Johnson is lazy. Far from it. I may have felt he didn't put the thought into characters arcs and dialogue that should have been done. My opinion. It's a public forum.

 

I'm just pointing out the amount of jokes, not the quality of the joke.

 

Oh boy.... Popped into these parts to see the war still rages. It has been 2 months, and the flames of the great film revolution still burn as the usurped writhe in their self-pity! A new era of peace, stability, quality films, and plentiful content will forever rein now that the filth of the Prequel Alliance has been crushed under the might of the Disney Empire! Long live Supreme Director Rian!

 

I recently saw Maze Runner : The Death Cure. Almost no jokes or humour. It haves the opposites problem of TLJ's 2 much comedy.

2 point out @AfraidFool 's point of humour serving the story the scene where the bus drops from the crane & the out of service sign pops up when it lands is an appropriate bit of humour in an otherwise bleak story.