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KYLO REN – The Conflicted Son (A Character Study)

Discussion in 'General Sequel Trilogy Discussion' started by NinjaRen, Apr 30, 2019.

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Do you like Kylo Ren's character?

  1. Yes

  2. No

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  1. Fuzzball

    Fuzzball Force Sensitive

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    Menacing, imposing, deadly — our first introduction to Lord Vader.

    [​IMG]

    Three decades on, Kylo Ren — like grandfather, like grandson...

    [​IMG]

    Stopping a blaster bolt in mid-air, executing an old man needlessly, slaughtering an entire village needlessly — there's no doubt whose blood flows through Kylo’s veins. The power. The strength. The cruelty. All of it was there to witness.

    Not long after the horrors of Jakku, a whimpering man was filled with sorrow for the atrocities he had just committed. Despite such an impressive display of evil, a villain totally in control of his own power, Kylo's conscience was still bothered by the Light.

    [​IMG]

    Forgive me. I feel it again. The pull to the light. Supreme Leader senses it. Show me again, the power of the darkness, and I will let nothing stand in our way. Show me, Grandfather, and I will finish what you started.

    Ruthless brutality juxtaposed with regretful remorse.

    Kylo's actions on Jakku were fuelled by a sense of bravado. An exaggerated display of bold confidence yet underneath tormented by fear and pain. We never saw such vulnerability from Vader until late on. In most ironic fashion. Kylo's menacing, imposing, deadly entrance made Vader look tame in comparison, yet Kylo - a broken man - was the one snivelling at a broken mask, begging for its help.
    Kylo's anger is fuelled by fear (like a wise little green man used to say (yoda)). He fears the Light side. He fears being hurt by it again. That is what Kylo has most in common with Vader. However, Vader was not shown to be so emotionally unstable. Vader had learnt to bury his feelings deep down.

    Kylo is tormented with guilt for the heinous acts he has committed. After the massacre on Jakku, the Light still pulled at his conscience. After killing his father, the Light still had remained.

    [​IMG]

    If Kylo's introduction was much the same as Vader's, and his role up to this point has been much the same, and his backstory is much the same, what's his ending going to be like?

    "Menacing, imposing, deadly", are not words I would presume anyway.

    Purging his memory of his past self was the same reason Vader remained loyal to the Dark side. It wasn't until he later found Luke & Leia he realised he had something worth living for. After many years of shunning away from it, he finally found solace and strength in the Light once again. He finally realised the Dark side wasn't the answer to his problems, but the cause of it.

    At the end of the Last Jedi, Kylo was no happier than he was at the beginning, even though he had accomplished the most of any character. He had killed Luke, he had become Supreme Leader, and he had accomplished more than Vader ever had. Despite all of that, the last shot of Kylo was him alone holding his father’s dice in his hand.

    [​IMG]

    You will not be punished for your anger. You will be punished by your anger. —
    Buddha
     
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  2. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    IMO this makes him superior to Vader at least character wise.

    This deed made the pull to the light side even stronger!

    Ren: "I killed Han Solo. When the moment came, I didn't hesitate!"
    Snoke: "And look at you. The deed split your spirit to the bone. You were unbalanced, bested by a girl who had never held a lightsaber! YOU FAILED!!!"



    Today I've read a theory which I don't really believe, but it 's still an interesting thought.

    What if he [Ben Solo] embraced the Dark Side and the transformation into Kylo Ren in order to ultimtaley defeat Palpatine? What if his famous Force Awakens declaration to "finish what you started" wasn't made to an idealised Dark Side Vader but to the ghost of Anakin?

    I don't really buy into that theory because the movie wouldn't have enough time to depict that. But it would definitely redeem his character for a lot of people.
     
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  3. Fuzzball

    Fuzzball Force Sensitive

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    He's certainly the most intriguing of the sequels for me. However, some fans don't like him because he's so emotionally unstable. They'd rather have another Vader, but I think that would've been a waste.

    I don't buy it either. I don't even believe he knows Sidious is still around. He probably has a vague idea who the Emperor was. I think the real reason he killed his father was to impress Snoke and to complete his training. From TFA, I believe he feared Snoke to some degree and Snoke knew how to manipulate him.

    But when Snoke scolded him for his failures in TLJ, it was like a stab in the back. You can see his anger towards Snoke visibly grow in that scene to the point he genuinely tries to attack him. After that, he smashes his helmet in the elevator shaft - I think I read from the TLJ novel he imagined he was smashing Snoke's face to a pulp. From that point on, he no longer feared Snoke and wanted him dead.

    So when he brought Rey into the throne room, it offered the perfect distraction for him to take out his true enemy.

    RIan Johnson: In my mind, he walks in there knowing basically that he is going to betray Snoke but he doesn’t know yet exactly what the mechanism is and what his opportunity is going to be.

    But he’s gone in there with the intent of, whether it’s now or whether it’s later or whenever it is, when he brings Rey in there, he’s had that connection with her and what he says in the elevator… from that, in my head I thought, ‘Okay, he knows he’s going to do this but he doesn’t know how yet’ and when he sees that opportunity with that lightsaber next to him and sees Snoke distracted and realizes he can give this an attempt, he goes for it.

    Even though Adam spends 80% of the scene kneeling like this looking blankly, apparently, he’s not. I spent a lot of time with Adam going through what he knows when, what his agenda is when he walks in, at what point does he make the decision [of] ‘Here’s my chance,’ what is he thinking there at different points in the scene.

    There are a couple moments of dialogue foreshadowing what Rian was talking about:

    REY: You don't have to do this. I feel the conflict in you. It's tearing you apart. Ben, when we touched hands, I saw your future. Just the shape of it, but solid and clear. You will not bow before Snoke. You will turn. I'll help you. I saw it.

    REN: I saw something, too. Because of what I saw, I know when the moment comes, you'll be the one to turn. You'll stand with me.

    REN: I know what I have to do.
    Since you brought up a pretty crazy theory, I once theorised (before the announcement of the return of the Emperor) that Snoke deliberately turned Kylo against him to complete his training — like a Sith apprentice killing their Master — and Snoke would try to return from the dead in EPIX through possessing Kylo's mind and taking on a new body. Maybe now the Emperor takes on that role instead? (emperor)
     
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  4. Phil J

    Phil J Guest

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    Logically, should he not have then have considered using this scolding as an incentive to improve himself.
     
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