SPECULATION Luke conceding to train Rey as a Jedi.

Bravo. Luke going into self-exile in order to create some kind of balance while powerful dark side users are running amok makes no sense anyway. Luke is in despair and that will be one of the primary conflicts in TLJ.

 

Luke is the Last Jedi

 

I think people are losing their minds too much over "The Jedi must end." Especially since we don't know the context of that statement. I think Luke is talking about the Jedi as he knows them. Luke was trained by Obi-Wan and Yoda, two Jedi Masters who were part of Jedi Order whose way of thinking was a large contributing factor to the downfall of a Jedi Order that had existed for thousands of years. Then it was Palpatine who figured out how to exploit that way of thinking to bring about the Jedis downfall, he played the Jedi Order like a fiddle. Luke who was taught that same way of thinking sets up a Jedi Academy with the same inherent flaws, flaws that someone like Snoke already know how to exploit. Once again the Jedi get played like a fiddle by the bad guys and history repeats itself.

I think Luke is saying the way the Jedi were is over and it's time to move on and not repeat the same mistakes again. My bet is the full line will go something like this, "It's time for the Jedi to end, and a New Jedi Order to begin."

 

Reading this thread has given me a thought. Quite some time ago, Rian Johnson said that TLJ will contain uneasy alliances, people who do not see eye to eye having to work together against something else. (I can't remember the exact phrases he used). At the time, I thought he most likely meant Rey and Kylo having to work together against another evil force that threatened them both. But what if he was talking about Luke and Rey? What if Luke really does not want to train Rey, but ends up teaching her at least some things because they are put into a situation in which he needs her to be able to fight? In the end, Luke could still not agree to train Rey, but will have to teach her enough to start her on her way, just so that they can both survive the current situation. Then, they part ways without Luke fully training Rey in the Force.

 

Inneresting! If you find the cite I'd love to see it

 

I saw yoda training her.

 

I totally foresee a scene with Yoda telling Rey.

So back you are ?

Unexpected it is.

 

Very informative .never heard of it never thought about that possibility.thank you for that.

 

Me too

 

Interesting. I had not seen that interview with GC about "moral decisions." I don't know if Phasma will jump ship or not, but the more talk I hear about moral ambiguities in this trilogy, the more interested I get to see what happens! I love the OT for the classic good vs. evil fairy tale, but I am really interested in what they say is coming in this trilogy. JJ Abrams made statements before TFA came out that in this trilogy, it will be less clear cut who is good and who is evil, and that the people we consider "evil" believe they are doing the right thing. I think there was very little of that in TFA. I am thinking it is going to come out in TLJ.

 

Interesting idea, but that's not the way filming works. At the 15 minute mark all major characters have to be introduced and the action moving forward. At the 45 minute mark there is a major event. Etc. You don't have it work backwards, as in some way Luke agreeing to train Rey is similar to the hero finally taking up the quest after he/she has refused to do so.

The easiest answer is probably what they will go with, as it's just that, easy. Luke is in a dark place, so he refuses to train her. For some reason he changes his mind, or there is more to that quote than what we have heard.

As for what people like MH and RJ are saying or not saying, trust NOTHING they say. Someone earlier quoted MH saying just because Rey is training does not mean it is Luke who is training her. Then who is it, a long lost Jedi? Probably not as that would complicate the story further. This isn't Game of Thrones and it isn't a novel. They don't have time for that. I see this as similar to what Yoda did to Luke, only to give in when Obi Wan intercedes. Perhaps the ghost of Yoda will intervene on behalf of Rey?

 

I think the exact quote was that, "if Skywalker returns, the new Jedi will rise"

So does Snoke know something that Luke doesn't, does Luke know something that Snoke doesn't, or do we need to focus on the fact that the New Jedi would conceptually be different than their predecessors? I think it's the latter.

On another note: I don't think we ever eliminate the "good guys" and "bad guys" from the Star Wars universe... whether they're called Ren or Sith, whether they called Jedi or something else. I don't think the franchise loses anything by suggesting that the Old Jedi way had some blind spots (they demonstrated as much in the PT). That doesn't negate the general good that they did, just that their philosophy needed to change. The fact that the Jedi had gone through 2 purges prior to Luke's academy being wiped out (to me) suggests that there is a problem somewhere in the ideology.

I don't think pivoting away from the Old Jedi way destroys the franchise. Nor does changing the "name" of the good guys. If they call them "New Jedi" or another word altogether won't bother me. They will undoubtedly still carry on some of the old ways and legacy of the "Old Jedi" but add new facets and understanding that makes them different. And I think that's ok.

 

I definitely agree that Star Wars would be strange without the Jedi. I can't see them eliminating the Jedi entirely, but the emphasis on the balance of the Force in both the teaser and the poster lead me to believe that The Last Jedi will deal with Luke and Rey trying to find the balance between the light and dark sides of the Force. (I also think that will eventually result in Rey and Kylo Ren working together to defeat Snoke in Episode IX.)

Like others have said, Obi-Wan and Yoda were both morally good characters, but the Jedi Order that existed in their time was flawed—and some may even say it was a bit corrupted. Surely some of those flaws would probably be unintentionally passed on to Luke through his training, which may have contributed to Ben turning on his uncle and the other apprentices. If Luke has spent the years since in isolation, who knows what he was doing, and who knows what he found?

Adam Driver recently did an interview where he talked about how Rian Johnson would change the rules of the Star Wars universe with this film, and I have a strong suspicion that one of the ways in which that will take place is through the Jedi and what is/isn't morally acceptable for them. If Rey really is Luke's daughter like many people believe, that alone would be enough to prompt discussion over what has changed in the Jedi beliefs. (The whole reason this mess with the Skywalker family started was because Anakin disobeyed the Jedi's whole "no marriage" rule.) So, it's very likely that this film will fundamentally change our perception of the Jedi, but I don't think they will necessarily be eliminated.

Besides, they've fooled us before. For all we know, they edited what Luke actually says in the trailer. There was a pause in between, "It's time for the Jedi..." and "...to end," so it's very possible that something else was said in between there that we don't know about.

(And as for Mark's comment about "it could be someone else training Rey," I think it's just him messing with us again. It's pretty obvious that Luke will be the one to train Rey, even if he is reluctant at first.)

 

I'm not sure I uderstand, sorry... my fault. Sometimes it's hard for me...
However...
Let's say it goes as I "wish"... in TFA we wait almost all the movie for Rey to accept her call of destiny, in TLJ we are going to wait a lot - until act III - for Luke to accept his new call of destiny (training Rey).
The major event at 45' will be wathever pushes them to leave Ahch to and it could be something happening on Ahch to, or elsewhere...
or it could be something that doesn't have to do with Luke and Rey. They can leave short before...and not because of something "major".

But as told this is just a wish. I don't think that's the case.

 

I can't wait for that scene between them too, the way Yoda in ESB played the ''not ready'' card until Obi Wan intervened, Rey may find it easy to convince him.

 

But balance of the Force has never been about Light vs Dark. Its about a balance that promotes and allows for life. Those who use the Dark Side dominate and take what they want even at the expense of others. The Light Side is motivated by empathy and symbiosis.

Everyone can say all they want that it was the Jedi rules that caused the problem for Anakin but if he had kept them he wouldn't have fallen. He developed an attachment that consumed him and it took hold over him as more important than democracy, not killing kids, and betraying friends for a villain whom he admittedly hated.

 

I think you do have a point, but if there is only one side, how can there be balance? I mean, perhaps what The Last Jedi explores is more of an improvement on the previously flawed Jedi Order, rather than eliminating it and starting it from scratch. And I don't really see how there would be a need for the dark side the way there is for the light, but I do feel like if the balance of the Force is so strongly emphasized, finding that balance can't be done only through the light side.

As for Anakin, I agree with you entirely. I'm not disagreeing with the rule that Jedi cannot be married. It makes sense. Ultimately, it was Anakin's fault for falling, like you said. However, what I'm curious about is how this rule—and other rules that the Jedi followed—will be affected/changed with this new trilogy, especially if Luke is Rey's father. I can't see Luke turning to the dark side because it would defeat the purpose of the Original Trilogy, so I'm curious to see how his life as a Jedi is different from Anakin, and if the rules are still the same or not.

 

Many times when people speak of balance the see scales. But wheels also need to be balanced or the can spin out of control.

I think harmony is a better term for what I think Lucas was shooting for. He spoke directly that the balance was between "the Living Force" and "the CosmicForce" these were not fully defined (much like many things Lucas wrote). But the Living Force was where Force users draw power and if over used it could destroy the cosmic force. Thus the energy of life (Living Force) misused jeprodizes the system as a whole (Cosmic Force). Thus Dark Siders see only their own ends and act selfishly. Where as Light Siders act with empathy and in consideration for the larger system. I know very boring and strange. Here is where it starts to makes less navel gazing sense. This brings it back to good verses evil. Balance in this system is in favor of selflessness and empathy (good). This applies to systems of government Sheeve was able to encourage the desire of security and prosperity over justice and liberty. Economies can be ruined by greed. Environments ruined by selfish consumption. Families broken by self centered people. Thus serving the balance is ensuring that your actions are good for everyone in the system with you.