SPECULATION New Darth Plagueis/ Snoke Theory from recent news

I don't understand why every new character introduced into Canon must be connected to the past.The whole point of expanding Star Wars is to introduce new chracters, ideas and stories, and that would include Snoke. Disney or the story group is not hiding his connection cause there is none.


Nor is he an existing character altered.

I will bet all my credits he is not an altered character and is a brand new, fresh character.

 

It's because IT'S ALL CONNECTED. If the story doesnt ahve to do with the main subjects then what's the point? And it's not just the past but the present and the future...in Qui-Gon's own words:, "Focus on the present"
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That sounds a bit contradictory. Which is is it? Connected or the present?

Where IS the evidence he is connected? There is none.

The point being; Snoke is new, not altered, not connected to a prequel character who is especially dead.

 

Apparently from what I've read, Snoke has an awareness of the events of the Clone Wars, in that he saw it happen. I don't think it's ever stated how much he saw or whether he got involved in it. I'm starting to wonder if Snoke is some sort of red herring. (hear me out) I'm not sure if you're read the Jedi Academy trilogy by Kevin J Anderson, but JJ said Snoke wasn't a Sith. That's fair enough...

But what if the Original Snoke wasn't a Sith, but was somehow possessed by one a'la Exar Kun? We saw what effect the Dark Side of the Force had on Palpatine, why not in this instance?

 

He is new but still connected literally according to PH and all. It's both connected and present. As in, snoke has to do with the over all story but also is dealing with his ramifications (that we dont know of yet) in the st
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--- Double Post Merged, Nov 17, 2016, Original Post Date: Nov 17, 2016 ---

Snoke wasnt a sith because theyre gone.

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gone? sure you are?

Qui-Gon Jinn "My only conclusion... is that it was a Sith lord."
Ki-Adi-Mundi: Impossible! The Sith are extinct! They have been for nearly a millenium.
Mace Windu: I agree. The Sith would not have returned without us sensing it.
Yoda: Hard to see, the dark side is.

that mistake has been made before

they won't be back, coz i doubt they were ever gone.

 

Also because GL said it oo that the sith are gone after vader and sidious which is why the force is in balance (i forget where) )

 

Plagueis is dead... Long Live Plagueis!!

 

he may have said that, but that doesn't dictate what happens next. If the writers decide that there were some hidden Sith somewhere.. then the Sith are back . if the writers decide that Vader had a secret apprentice.. then the Sith are back. they could decide that the knights of Ren visit an ancient Sith temple and learn the ways of the Sith.. i dunno but they are the ones with all the imagination, and they have a blank canvas.

maybe we'll never hear of the Sith again, but i think we will and soon.

 

i think that would degrade the entire saga then because the point of vader turning into anakin was destroying the sith for good so plagueis, sidious, vader, etc. are gone...
maybe not their teachings though...

 

The decision for Plagueis to be killed in his sleep is not curious if you look at it from the right point of view. It's to serve Palpatine's story.

Let's consult the James Luceno interview on his Darth Plagueis book again. Here's the two relevant paragraphs:
(Source: http://www.unboundworlds.com/2012/01/interview-with-james-luceno-author-star-wars-darth-plagueis/ )
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What do you think of Plagueis, and what do hope readers think of him after reading this book?

I would like readers to come away feeling that he was a very powerful Sith Lord who unfortunately got involved with a human. I feel that humans are the most dangerous in their unpredictability. I think that he, as part of a species that’s not quite as emotional as humans, failed to read the signs in his apprentice. He didn’t understand false flattery and manipulation at the level where Palpatine was capable of using it as a weapon.

It’s interesting that you mention Palpatine’s manipulation, because I think that the way Sidious killed Plagueis in his sleep is a great metaphor for the way in which Palpatine, the consummate politician, operates to get what he wants.

From the very beginning, that was something that I tried to write around, because I thought that there wasn’t going to be a powerful enough ending in that business about him being killed in his sleep. But again, this was one of the times that George, as well as Howard, kept saying, “No, that’s what happened, you are not allowed to change that.” There was not going to be any lightsaber duel at the end, none of that. Just that very fact forced me to think hard about what weapon Palpatine was using to bring down Plagueis. If it couldn’t be a lightsaber and a duel to the death, it had to be this sense we always get from Palpatine that he’s the master at manipulating beings. I guess, by extension, you could think that that’s what he does to the entire galaxy – he just lulls everybody into this false sense of security.
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Takeaways/highlights: He wanted to write around him being killed in his sleep but Lucas wouldn't let him. My take: Palpatine is the biggest possible bad guy in Lucas' mind. Plagueis story is there in large part to service Palpatine's story. Palpatine killing Plagueis in his sleep fits with Palpatine's personality in the ways mentioned in the interview. Palpatine manipulated Padme into "calling for a vote of no confidence on Chancellor Valorum". That was instrumental in the actual seizing of the Galaxy, the culmination of the Grand Plan.

Now from the novel, here is how Palpatine was manipulating Plagueis at the very end(context, Palpatine is practicing the speech he will give as Chancellor in front of Plagueis, for their own amusement and as a form of celebration):

"In a similar fashion it was Hego Damask who transformed the Trade Federation--" "No, no," Plagueis interrupted. "Now is not the time to mention the Trade Federation."
"I thought--"
"I don't see any problem with calling attention to.. (snipped by me) .. But we must take care to avoid areas of controversy."
"Of course," Sidious said, as if chastised. "I was speaking off the top of my head."

So what's the point of me including that? Palpatine is playing a fool. "as if chastised". AS IF. This is clearly him lulling Plagueis into a false sense of security by playing the fool. Making sure Plagueis feels superior, to put him at ease. He then gets Plageuis drunk as he continues to work on his speech. Eventually Plagueis is drunk enough to fall asleep and Palpatine kills him.

Later, as Plagueis is dying Palpatine goes over some of the other ways he manipulated him. For context, Plagueis had become obsessed with immortality to the point where he wasn't nearly as focused on his apprentice and The Grand Plan as he needed to be.

"Reflect back on even the past few years -- assuming you have the capacity. Yinchorr, Dorvalla, Eriadu, Maul, the Neimoidians, Naboo, an army of clones, the fallen Jedi Dooku... You think these were your ideas, when in fact they were mine, cleverly suggested to you so that you could feed them back to me. You were far too trusting, Plagueis."

Palpatine manipulated Padme into asking for a vote of no confidence (and this coming after he had manipulated the Trade Federation into the blockade, etc...). He manipulated Plagueis to drink himself to sleep. As George Lucas might say on the commonality of these two things "It's like poetry, it rhymes."

If you look at Revenge of the Sith, the opera scene and the "Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the wise" is there to serve Palpatine's means. Plagueis was introduced as part of Palpatine's story. The particulars of Plagueis' demise are what they are to suit the greater Star Wars story and that part of Palpatine's story and the manipulation of Anakin Skywalker. And I think it's highly unlikely that Lucas thinks Plagueis should remain alive because that would mean he ultimately had the upper hand on Palpatine. Given all of this context that doesn't make sense.

 

Not sure if it has been discussed but how about Snoke being a love child/clone of Sifo-Dyas and a Kaminoan?

The ability to read minds is not an ability that has been prominent with most of the Jedi/Sith we are familiar with but Kylo Ren is strong in it. He learned this from Snoke presumably. Although mind reading is not listed as a strength of Sifo-Dyas, Force Vision is. It is not a stretch to assume Force Vision and mind reading derive from the same strength in the Force. Sifo-Dyas had reason to dislike the Jedi and Sith.


Per Wookiepedia:

Kaminoans were slender, towering, pale-skinned humanoids...Male Kaminoans were completely bald...Their long and frail limbs gave them a graceful, gliding walk.

The Kaminoan side could definitely explain Snoke's appearance, absent that head wound. Recent rumors of Snoke's non-hologram appearance in Ep. VIII are also consistent with the description.

 

Oh man. This rabbit hole again.

Here's my best appraisal of the situation as someone who hopes Snoke IS plagueis but doesn't think he actually will turn out to be.

The appraisal is: we simply don't know one way or another.

Touting Hidalgos statement that Snoke is not plagueis is quite silly. What's else can he say? Yes? Obviously he can't just say that. Ignore it? That would be taken as confirmation by many. Lie and say no? That's really his only option if Plaguies lives. I remember being a prowrestling fan in the late 90's, we had this guy who was an employee of WCW get confronted by people asking if the NWO was coming back, he laughed and mocked and insulted people who simply said "look it kinda looks like you guys are leading to an NWO reformation" then a few weeks or months later when the NWO did reformed he was all "AHAHAHA OMG WE TRICKED YOU GUYS SO HARD" then when fans were like...."uhhhhhh no and you mocking us was kind of dumb" he said "well of course I had to lie! I couldnt just ignore your questions or confirm it" So to anti-plagueis theoriests you CAN'T really use Hidalgos denial as evidence against. Well I mean you can but it's really really weak as he literally has no other choice but to say this.

Here is exactly what I think. I think JJ's awkwardness at that celebration when asked about Plaggy was because at one point- either in the Lucas ideas for 7 or the Arndt script- Snoke was Plagueis. I think after Disney got in there and after JJ got on board they probably threw this idea out and Snoke is now unfortunately some random dark side user.

I think thematically it makes the most sense for Snoke to be Plaggy. It connects the Sith to this third trilogy. It makes the baddy seem more OG and threatening and not just some random Darksider. To change the threat from the Sith after 2/3rds of a trilogy of trilogies makes absolutely no sense. Unfortunately I believe that is what they have done. Disney's disdain and fear for anything prequel related has lead them to cut off their nose to spite their face. I hope that whatever Smoke turns out to be he's not just some third string force user like a inquisitor or some abandoned padawan from the clone wars.

P.S.- I'll add that technically Plagueis would no longer be a Sith since the rule of 2 carried on without him. Which could explain his new name. So hidalgos statement that there are no Sith in 7 is true... from a certain point of view.

PPS- I just want to clarify I don't think Snoke will turn out to be Plaggy despite my desire for it to be so.

 

This is old post, but still I want to clarify:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Rakata/Canon

 

Great post. This explanation is killer. This thread is now dead like Plagueis. Let's all move along